Our Tbs

[delsol650]

I had about 3 pinky nail sized cirolanids in my 100 lbs of tbs. 1 I killed and 2 got sucked up in the powerheads.

Hey RICHARD how come I did not get a tiger goby in my shipments hahahahaha.....

[liverock]

Originally posted by delsol650
I had about 3 pinky nail sized cirolanids in my 100 lbs of tbs. 1 I killed and 2 got sucked up in the powerheads.

Hey RICHARD how come I did not get a tiger goby in my shipments hahahahaha.....

They don"t like that cold Pacific water!!
Haaaaaaaaa


TBS

[techreef]

Does anyone have a suggestion for how many nassarius snails would be a comfortable number for a 90G reef tank? As I slowly begin to stock fish over the next 6 months, I'd like to have nass. snails. I have only the astraea snails from the TBS package currently.

[skippy2]

I would start out with 10 nassarius and 6 ceirth snails. Try that. You can always add a few more at a time if you think it is necessary.

[BrianPlankis]

Originally posted by techreef
Jeez, sorry about the extreme close up pic before of that coral!

I have some bad news to report. Yesterday, I spotted and netted a cirolanlid. Brian, how long do i need to keep my tank fish-less in order to insure that no cirolanids survive in my tank?

Sorry for the delay, I missed this the last time I checked the thread. I would suggest reading this article for more information, but I only tested a single specimen for starvation, it lasted 19 days with no food and looked like it hadn't eaten in a while, so I would say 30-90 days minimum.

Personally, I don't like to sit around and wait though, I like to take action. I would recommend the stinky water trap and see if you capture any

Brian

[jezzeaepi]

Have any of you had problems with your serpent stars? I had 3 of my 4 porcelain crabs dissapear recently. I found the brittle by a corpse earlier today, of what looked like a fresh kill.

There are three possible explanations:
1)My brittle star(about 10 inches accross) has been getting real excited lately when I feed my fish. I dont give him anyhing but hes always looking. Might he just grab a porcelain crab and eat it? The porcelains never seemed bothered by him, even if he was right next to them hitting them with his legs while moving around. They have co existed for months. More recently thoguh I started feeding the serpent just smaller bits of food(pea sized at most). I found that he was lazy with the larger chunks of shrimp and would leave them half eaten under rocks.
2)I know there is one, possibly two gorrilla crabs in the tank that are about one inch accross. Would they kill my porcelains but leave my fish and corals alone?
3)The small pistol that I think Ive had for 4 months is actually a mantis. I would have a hard time beleiving this though because I havent lost any fish, and still have a ton of hermits and snails.


Im leaning towards 1.
What do you guys think?

[techreef]

I recently spotted a 2" big gorilla in my tank. because the leftovers were sitting at the mouth of his cave, i know that he was responsible for carving off one of my shaving brush plants right at ground level. i've also recently seen chunks of pink sponge/tunicate being pulled into holes. I'm beginning to believe that the larger gorillas are the most destructive creatures in TBS tanks. if I didn't want to keep my barnacles (what's left of them, anyway) alive so badly, I don't know that I'd worry about mantis shrimp more than gorillas.

my purple serpent star really reacts during feeding time so far. (5 flakes of Formula I) Maybe he nabbed your crabs, but my porcelains are so speedy, I can't really see the star being able to catch one. I would look at the gorillas or a possible mantis first.

[jezzeaepi]

My porcelains showed no sign of fear of the serpent. They let him touch them all the time.

I dont know what I can do. Theres no way I take his rock out, they hide underneath everything. They ignore my traps. I cant stab him or kill him because its always in a reccess that I cant get too.

Starting to get really ****ed here. All of my reasons for buying tbs in the first place have been destroyed by tbs itself. 5 of the 7 porcelains I got have been killed by something.
All of my sponges have been killed by the keyhole limpets that I dare not remove because they are the only thing in the tank that eats bryopsis that trys to grow on everything.
Even the corals that hitch hike on the rock have a high mortaliy rate. Since they dont use much light at all, they require a ton of food. Too be able to feed them enough, the tanks phosphates and nitrates will go through the roof. Id say about 20% of the corals are dieing slowly from tissue loss, and algae regrowing on the dead skeleton.

I hate to say it but Im going with regular "dead" rock from fiji next time. I want to move forward with my tank, but removing all of the pests is damn near impossible to do before they kill all the good things that you bought the rock for in the first place.

[Strykur]

Hey guys (and gals)

After following this thread and reading every post I feel like I know every one of you The amount of information I have taken from this thread is crazy, thanks to every one of you for sharing.

I finally broke down after several years of fowlr tank and asked for a small tank to start my reef experience for my birthday. My wife bought me a 24g hqi aquapod and here I am, part of the family

I received my first part of my TBS shipment last Thursday and having a slight Ammonia problem atm, but doing daily water changes and hope to have it under control soon.

The rock was Fantastic!! with very few bad critters.


I know you all love pictures and I did take a few of part one that seem to have turned out great, I promise to post them along with part 2 once I get it

I also wanted to say thanks for all the pictures of your awesome tanks, I am sure that is what got me on the TBS track

Scott

[skippy2]

To Reef Central

[techreef]

I'm really sorry to hear that Jezzeaepi. I'm not so far along with my tank as you are, but I was definitely feeling the same exasperation as you. I found/chopsticked three more small stone crabs this weekend, and two gorillas. Peace is slowly returning to the land, but it is definitely a huge job. I'd be hesitant to get TBS rock on anything larger than a 90G tank, due to all the work of catching bad hitchhikers, which is getting pretty tough already in my tank. I can't imagine doing this in a 175 or larger, where you can't even reach the bottom.

I haven't spotted any more cirolanids, which is great. The tiger gobies are getting used to seeing me now, and no longer run and hide when I look at the tank. My hermits are still doing their best impression of paratroopers when I feed the tank. They literally come storming off the rocks, jumping 1' down to the sand bed to race over to the flakes.

Jezzeaepi, most likely you have, but did you try "all" the various trapping methods to nab your hitchhikers? Here's what i've experienced so far, per species:

Mantis shrimp: Never dumb enough to get trapped. Must either remove their home rock and drive them out with seltzer water, or use the Sears flexible grabber tool to nab them.

Gorillas: The seltzer water works well for them too, but that is really only an option up until you get your LR arranged the way you want. After that, I'm not pulling it all apart to lug out a 45lb. piece of rock to get at a crab. For gorillas, spearing them w/ a chopstick has been the best in-tank method for me. I did catch one using a baited shot glass.

Cirolanid: Got lucky when I spotted him on the front glass. Netted him. Hello, toilet!

Stone crabs: same as gorillas. Man, these little guys are tanks!

Whelks: Mine are near-black in color, with the black/white tatooed look on their "trunk" and foot. I've been pulling these by hand.

[jezzeaepi]

I think Ill give the chopstick method a try, but it may be too thick. Is their a type of metal(or other material) that I can make a long skewer out of that will be safe to use in my tank?
The one ro two gorrilas that remain have escaped several assassination attemps, so they know they are on my list. If they see me at all, they retreat to bottom of the biggest rock structure immediatly. My weapon of choice would be something long(so I didnt have to put my hand in the water and alert the crabs of my pressence) and skinny(so they dont see it coming). any suggestions?

I took out one of the big rocks a few months back when I had a 2inch stonecrab wreaking havoc in there, but after a few months the rocks have been restacked, corals placed, etc. Theres no way for me to feasibly do that now.

[drk70]

Use a wire coat hanger.

[techreef]

i find the wire coat hangers too wobbly in the water to accurately spear anything, esp. if you're aiming for a hole in a rock where the crab may be sitting. I like the wooden chopstick because it doesn't wobble at all, and if you even manage to pin any part of the crab, the chopstick is stiff enough to push around the trapped crab sideways.

as for something longer than a normal chopstick, how about going to a kitchen store and buying some skewers? (man, talk about the name reflecting the intended purpose!!) They would be longer, and depending on the kind you find, may be thick enough to not instantly break on the rock or be wobbly like a wire hanger.

[Tobman]

I am just jumping in here. I went back through this thread a bit, but it is overwhelming. Great thread, thanks for creating it. Sorry if I am asking questions that are already answerered.

I am setting up a 65 gallong tank and am considering the TBS Package. From what I can tell, those of you that have TBS live rock, love it.

Quesions:

How does the rock compare to other live rock in terms of the density of the rock and its ability to create caves and holes for critters to hide in. Some others (not TBSers) have criticized the rock and said it is too dense, and that I'm better off getting something like Marshall Island rock, that has a more open architecture. This not only allows more homes, but also allows for better water circulation through the rock. What do you all think?

As far as I can tell, TBS is one of the few suppliers that I have found that keep the rock in salt water all the way to your home. And the pictures show and incredible array of life. Seems like a huge selling point.

Also, what is the difference between Gulf vs Florida rock from TBS. Sounds like they are very different. Pros and cons?

[Tobman]

Bump.

[delsol650]

TBS rock is HEAVY, ( period ). It's been a couple of months now and even after thinking I have rid the tank of pest crabs, I still end up seeing baby one's. I actually just speared on the other night... about the size of a dime ( but it had tons of eggs under the belly ????? ) that size crab already breeding.... I am truely SOL........ hope my six line starts killing em' little bastards and my groups of pistols too...

overall TBS rock is good, I still have tons of sponges and tunicates growing and multiplying too. and that is with tap water turned to DI. The RO/DI unit is not installed yet. Low PSI.

[techreef]

I agree w/ delsol. It is nowhere near as porous as other rock I've seen, although my smaller pieces of rock are close, with a bunch of holes in them. I have a large, flat rock that creates an overhang in the middle of my tank, and one night I came home to see a 4 second, constant stream of stone dust raining down out of a hole-in-construction in the big flat rock. i swear it looked like a drill bit spitting out wood dust, it was so constant. So i guess if you keep your tank up long enough, the TBS rock will naturally become more porous due to the crazy fauna that comes with it.

The life is incredible. but on the other side of the coin, the life is incredible. My shipments had quite a few bad hitchhikers. But this too will pass (with diligent hunting! haha) and I'll be left with a very cool, diverse tank. It's up to you. If you think you'll have the work ethic/patience to hunt baddies for a while, go for the TBS package.

[drk70]

IMO it is all personal preference. You either like it or you don't. The density of the rock to me is meaningless. Yes it may be heavier but my rock has tons of holes through it and how you aquascape it has more to do with the circulation. Remember you can always break pieces off if you have to.

How they ship and what life comes on the rock and stays alive is what interested me the most. Yes you can and most likely will get some unwanted guests but all you can do it do your best to get them out before you put the rock in. I still have a few gorilla crabs (almost 1-1/2 years later) but I will get them eventually.

I can't help you much with the difference between gulf and keys rock because I have gulf rock and have never seen the keys rock in person. The only thing I will say is that keys rock seems to have more green leafy stuff on it then gulf rock.

BTW, most of the stuff that was on my rock is still alive and my tank is close to 18 months old.

[phil519]

Irregardless of the rock you choose - as dennis mentioned - it's important to have the appropriate circulation in the tank. For a 65 gallon - a single tunze would be more than sufficient, or a pair of seios could work in a pinch too. This doesn't count in the return pump if you plan on having an overflow.

As for my exp with tbs - yes there are a lot of hitchers - but I found quite a few to be neat and interesting. The one critter that was just nasty though was the cirolanid isopod - though this guy could conceivably hitch on any rock. To me these are far worse than having any of the overblown mantis shrimp that everyone talks about. For the record I caught 5 mantis (within 48 hrs) and sold them to local enthusiasts. I think I had maybe 3 isopods - but none of them appeared to have latched onto any of my fish.

Interestingly enough I also had some nassarius snails hitch in, cerith snail hitch in, tons of pods and bristle worms, and a ton of mini stars (i had a few porecelain crabs and one big red serpent hitch). One thing that was really neat was after unloading the sand you'd find so many mini-stars in the bag- it's important not to toss it without carefully checking.

Also - the good folks of TBS are known to throw in random items in addition to you order when the second half arrives. I'm positive the count on my snails and hermits far exceeded the allotment I was supposed to get. They also have plenty of extra shells for the hermits to grow into.

As for the critters stuck on the rocks - my favorite are the brain-like corals...they glow beautifully with the actinic lights. I have only a few tunicates left and most of the turkey shell wing mussels are still about.

I guess for me personally - the experience is great. The tank is a lot more stable than anything I tried a decade ago using the "state of the art" wet dry system...lol.

edit: forgot to mention - all of my xanthid crabs are gone. Captured by yours truly...a few were sent to meet the mantis - most were just captured.

[HBtank]

Wow, TBS seems like a nigthmarish headache, I couldn't handle it just for a few semi-attractive hitchiker freebies..

Just me

[smcnally]

Originally posted by HBtank
Wow, TBS seems like a nigthmarish headache, I couldn't handle it just for a few semi-attractive hitchiker freebies..

Just me

How do you figure? The only bad hitchhikers I got was 2 gorilla crabs. My rock came with beautiful sponges (Blue, Orange, Yellow, Red, White, and Black) as well as Turkey Wing Molusks (which are good), and corals. All the corals (Hidden Cup, Radiens Star, and Rose Brain) are all still alive and thriving after 2 years and most of the sponges are still doing well. It was well worth it to me, and IMO it is very beatiful rock. You take the chance of getting troublesome hitchers with ANYTHING you buy for your tank. One coral purchase or trade can infest your tank with acro eating flatworms, montipora eating nudis, or redbugs. You can also wind up with any of these issues purchasing Fiji or Marshal Island rock from your LFS. I know a LFS in my area sells Fiji rock that is infested with Aiptasia. This hobby is a gamble...Your success in this hobby is dependant on not just skill, but also luck.

[phil519]

I think the TBS experience is excellent and far exceeded the expectations I had.

But that's JUST ME.

[HBtank]

Originally posted by smcnally
How do you figure? The only bad hitchhikers I got was 2 gorilla crabs. My rock came with beautiful sponges (Blue, Orange, Yellow, Red, White, and Black) as well as Turkey Wing Molusks (which are good), and corals. All the corals (Hidden Cup, Radiens Star, and Rose Brain) are all still alive and thriving after 2 years and most of the sponges are still doing well. It was well worth it to me, and IMO it is very beatiful rock. You take the chance of getting troublesome hitchers with ANYTHING you buy for your tank. One coral purchase or trade can infest your tank with acro eating flatworms, montipora eating nudis, or redbugs. You can also wind up with any of these issues purchasing Fiji or Marshal Island rock from your LFS. I know a LFS in my area sells Fiji rock that is infested with Aiptasia. This hobby is a gamble...Your success in this hobby is dependant on not just skill, but also luck.

I read the whole thread. I stick by what I said.

I am glad your experience was good.

[smcnally]

Originally posted by HBtank
I read the whole thread. I stick by what I said.

I am glad your experience was good.

I here what your saying, but I'm not sure you really heard what I'm saying. I was trying to explain that you can get bad hitch-hikers ony any rock you buy. To each his own...I like the rock, but decided not to do my whole tank with it.