Lineage - Definition, Discussion & Debate

[JeffReef]

Originally posted by Runfrumu
The name thing means nothing to me. The thing is, I don't hang around anyone else that keeps a reef tank, all of my friends like it, but none do it. So bragging about "I have some PPE polyps right there, I paid 100 bucks for those 2 little things" around the people I know would just get me alot of strange looks.

I've noticed in this hobby that all the best looking stuff is "rare".

I believe the issue is about lineage (i.e. Tubbs,Tyree, etc.) and not about paying high coral prices in general.

And ,obviousely, you can't brag about your coral lineage to those who don't understand what you're talking about.

[Pufferpunk]

Originally posted by Runfrumu
The name thing means nothing to me. The thing is, I don't hang around anyone else that keeps a reef tank, all of my friends like it, but none do it. So bragging about "I have some PPE polyps right there, I paid 100 bucks for those 2 little things" around the people I know would just get me alot of strange looks.

You need to join a local reef club!

[islandcreation]

Originally posted by MUCHO REEF
Just my opinion and I force it on no one.

I've been reefing for about 16 plus years. I think 14 of that is in Zoanthid and Palythoas collecting, propagating and outright giving frags away. I use to sell frags all over the country from 2001 to 2006 for $ 15 to $ 20 per frag, but I soon stopped. That's right, just 2 years ago, you could buy an entire colony for what 1 or 2 polyps cost today. I don't care how blue, red, yellow, speckled or rainbowed they were, you could buy an entire colony for $ 25 to $ 60 depending on the size of the rock. Do you know why I stopped selling? When more reefers were concerned with names, lineage and the dramatic price hikes that came along with it, I decided the real focus was no longer on true reefing. By that I mean, husbandry, bio diversity, water chemistry, creative aquascaping most conducive for coral growth and so much more.

Two years ago, I never heard the word lineage being mentioned as it relates to zoanthids and palythoas. I have never asked nor will I ever ask about lineage when purchasing polyps, I don't knock anyone who does, I just don't bother. I take great pride in studying the characteristics of a polyp and remembering what to look for and not who had it first and if they were the first to obtain it. If I find something extremely stunning in a LFS, the last thing I'm going to inquire about is lineage. In my opinion, lineage is important for only two things, resale credibility and resale value as the reefer mentioned above. This craze of attaching a person's name to a polyp is completely out of hand IMHO. Joe's PPV's, Skip Jack's HMO's and the like is not proof of lineage. I have seen polyps that have been named and ownership taken, and they are the exact same polyps that I have had for many years before names were mainstream or before they were even named. As stated above, I can take a polyp, which someone can prove its lineage, and place it in a completely different system than it has acclimated to, and I can change the appearance of that polyp and sometimes specks or other pigments can/will appear/disappear. The polyp has now changed in appearance, but its lineage has remained the same. The same holds true for photographing a polyp. I can change the lighting and completely alter the appearance of a polyp, yet the lineage stays the same yet the polyp is different.

I have the craziest most stunning big deep bright blue palys that I have ever seen. People drop their jaw when they see them. I have never seen them anywhere that I have looked, and I check weekly. I was offered money you wouldn't believe for them. I'm talking some very big money that a certain orange paly fetches, but I turned down the offer. Nothing is worth that much. Since I'm not into names, and I'm not knocking anyone who is, I'd be a fool to think or say that I am the only one who has them and I dare not name them Mucho's Blue Dragons or something.

In my opinion, and my opinion alone, lineage is a complete waste of time, again, just my opinion. I have spoken with young reefers who can tell me where every single polyp in their system came from, the name and what they can sell them for. What troubles me the most, is many of them didn't know what cyano was. They didn't know Hypersalinity from Hyposalinity. They had hundreds if not thousands of dollars in polyps, but didn't own a single test kit. They couldn't explain why their zoas and plays kept dying, only to go out and buy more to keep up with what everyone else was buying. Yet they knew every name, lineage and price of every polyp they owned.

Longevity in this hobby is achieved with reefing because it's fun, relaxing, enjoyable and fulfilling. This is done by listening, reading, learning, asking questions and giving back. If someone enjoys the knowledge of lineage, I'm NOT going to bash them for it. There is simply far more important things for me to be concerned with if one wants to develop a blue thumb in reefing.



Mucho Reef

Mucho,

Do you have a pic of those deep blues palys that you were talking about? If a person was willing to pay that much I'd want to see how nice these bad boys are. The bluest zoa I have ever seen were tubbs, I can't seem to imagine anything bluer than that. Thanks and look forward to any pics.

[MUCHO REEF]

Still looking for the right camera.

[stevelkaneval]

I could care less who had what first. I was over at a fellow reefers house last night and i gave him 2 pinwheel green and purple ricordia yumas, he said he felt bad that he was only giveing me 3 polyps of "Goochster's" ,1 polyp of unkown name, and some pink star polyps, also hes giveing me a killer deal on some frogspawn hes gonna frag soon. I said i didnt care what he gave me as long as it wasnt green. Im in this hobby for me and me only, no one sits in front of my tank and stares blankly for hours except me. i buy what i like and try to stay away from the mainstream zoa selling, ie 50$/polyp 3 polyp minimum. Im also in this to watch my tank grow and fill in, i dont wanna buy 100 polyps of the same kind i want one of these one of those and watch them grow. i wonder if those peaple with the minimums know if i could buy 1 or 2 polyps i would buy more different stuff.

JMO, steve

[RevHtree]

Originally posted by RevHtree
To be honest I have used "names" and when building my collection went after many of the ones I saw that other people had. Why? Because I liked them. I don't try to get all the ones that are named, but many that are named I want to own. There are also many unnamed ones that I own and want to own as well. I understand why some of you don't like the naming and stuff, but don't crucify those that do. Not everyone is in it for making money. This is a hobby and in every hobby people search for the popular things. To me that was a draw. To find that elusive paly or that one morph that just jumped out at you is/was very fun for me. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its wrong or should not be done. Has it been perverted to make money? Sure, but many things in life are and will be in the future.

I am not upset or talking to anyone person as I respect you all and especially my friend Mucho.

[nalbar]

Originally posted by stevelkaneval
no one sits in front of my tank and stares blankly for hours except me.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

I sit there and stare and stare. It's not like it's growing while I watch!

What's funny is that I see something new almose every night.



nalbar

[RevHtree]

PS. The lineage thing I am NOT into. Naming is ok, but just because your "PPE" isnt from "Blane" does not make it a PPE fake....

To me the lineage thing is pure and simple a straight up marketing scheme. Anybody want any RDDB's??? (Rev's Doo Doo Browns)

[geoxman]

Ah! I forgot to shoot the Reverend a PM this morning! I can tell that the naming kind of annoys you as well!?!? Just a guess? I will shoot you a PM with my cell as I also need some more TN info when I get down there. It is the weekend so I can talk all day about this absurdity, without using my minutes. Check PM's later. I have a very interesting non named polyp that I am going to submit to zoaid, it is a very unusual , actually rare yellow zoanthis gigantus, and it is yellow. I am not joking about the polyp either. I am going to submit the name of "yellow polyp" for this rare gem.

I also have some blues that have a purple center/ring and remain blue under any light and they are not related to Philip Micheal-Thomas. I plan on calling them "a blue polyp". Even though I know Philip Micheal-Thomas is way sexier. Do you think Don is still looking for that "heartbeat."?? Crockett was much cooler anyway and had better blue suits. IMHO

Reverend I will shoot you a PM as soon as I finish my "red wine/ruby red" wine...It is a nice 84 cab and not a polyp.

All in good fun my man and I will get in touch with you tomorrow.
Have a great evening
PL

[Pufferpunk]

Could you send me a pic of your Yellow Polyp also? I have a large yellow polyped something or other where I can't ID the type it is. I'm not talking about it's name either.

This thing is BRIGHT yellow!

[MUCHO REEF]

That appears to be a Palythoa Grandis.

[geoxman]

el correcto mucho

[MUCHO REEF]

OK, back to lineage