Cyano (red) outbreak... what will eat it? Seahares?

[BigShot]

My tank is about 5 months old.
I have Ca reactor, huge skimmer, tons of live rock, metal halide lamps, refugium with tons of chaeto plus almost every other tech item you can add to a reef :-)
Recently I have had a cyano outbreak. At first I thought I'd wait until it passed away, but it seems that it's thriving and getting onto my corals (especially not too healthy parts).
What can I do?
I have checked ammonia, nitrates, phosphates, nitrites, salinity, pH, Ca and KH levels and they are all within norms.
What can I do?
Are there any fish that will eat it? Any other creatures? Perhaps seahares?

Thank you.

[Emo]

Siphoning and keeping water quality up have worked best for me. At 5 months your tank is still maturing and the cyano will most likely phase out if you keep maintanance up. A trick that worked for me on my 125g fowlr was to siphon all the cyano I could during a 20% water change and lights off for a day twice in a 2 week period, and feeding less/smarter after that. This was around the 3-4 month age of this tank and havent had a problem with cyano since.

Not much out there that will do a worth while job eating the stuff. Its really a problem of excess nutrients, and ageing the tank.
Good luck

[foob]

My mexican turbos cleaned up my cyano in a week. From a jungle of red to nothing.. Beautiful.

[tanker]

Originally posted by foob
My mexican turbos cleaned up my cyano in a week. From a jungle of red to nothing.. Beautiful.

What does a Mexican Turbo look like??

[Reefmaniac1]

They are snails with a shell that looks like a turban. Personally, I have never witnessed a turbo snail eat cyano. They tend to stay away from it like the plague...mostly because cyano is toxic. The pigment that the bacteria uses for photosynthesis is a form of cyanide (hence the name cyanobacteria) and is usuall toxic to just about everything.

Water changes and siphoning are your best bets. If those don't work, you can try Chemi-clean or Aqualine Bushke's Anti Red. But those are treating the symptom of the problem rather than the root cause: heavy nutrient load (possibly coupled with low water flow in the affected area).

[foob]

Different kinds of turbos. When you mention turban you could be refering to astrea snails. Different from the ones I am refering to.

The mexican turbos are about 2 inches in size, about the biggest snails you can get. They definitely eat cyano. Using them is safer than using any chemicals. This is from personal experience, I just used them a few weeks ago. No reason to lie.

[Reefmaniac1]

Not accusing you of lying...just like I stated, I have never witnessed it myself.

[fltt]

If you want to use chemicals, try chemi-clean this has worked for me in the past. In two days the cyano was gone. They say it is reef safe. I have a fish only.
Floyd

[R33f3r]

Fighting conchs and Queen conchs will eat it. I love the queens because they will also eat all kinds of macro, diatoms, and hair algae.

[fishylongstocking]

I want to second Queen Conchs will eat it, and they are pretty cool looking too. Although they can get big, but it takes forever.

[Zoom]

Large water changes every two weeks good water flow and cut the feeding back to minimum keeps my cyno in check. Try that but it will take some time to kill it all .
Nothing will i eat it .

[jbabbitt]

I am not a big fan of chemicals, but when I had an outbreak, I used redslime remover. Works just like chemiclean, and I have never had a problem again.

[BigShot]

Did anyone use chemi clean in tank with corals???

[R33f3r]

Originally posted by BigShot
Did anyone use chemi clean in tank with corals???

Yes and it didn't seem to affect them. Polyps didn't retract or shrivel.

[BigShot]

Thanks everyone for the help.

[Zoom]

Did anyone use chemi clean in tank with corals???

The only thing i had a problem with using chemi clean i lost three clams.

[jdieck]

Cyano battle I had experience with. Together with battling the symptom you need to battle the source.
Cyano is particularly difficult in that it reproduces extremely fast, can fix dissolved Nitrogen from the air (Not necessarily Nitrates) and feed from Organics like fire on dry paper. It also thrive in mostly shadow areas were it is most difficult to extract.
As removing Nitrates will do little for Cyano (Although will do wonders for getting rid of other algae) I would be looking to reducing phosphate and specially organics. Unfortunately that is the one thing we can not test for reliably or cheaply.

To address the problem:

a) Revamp your skimmer. Try to increase it's efficiency, set for a little wetter foam and clean it at a minimum twice a week. An oversized skimmer could be your best line of defense.

b) Insure that your light bulbs are replaced regularly, old bulbs shift spectrum to what Cyano loves. Replace them once a year as a minimum.

c) Increase your water flow or direct the flow to areas where water can move too slow or get stagnated around the tank.

d) Reduce your feeding to the minimum necessary using dry foods or frozen foods that have been thawed and washed before feeding.

e) Reduce Organics by the use of Activated Carbon AND Purigen. Wash the carbon well and leave it in RO/DI water for 24 to 48 hours before use. this will reduce the amount of phosphates leached by it. (Note some more than others but all carbons leach phosphate)

f) If possible use Ozone to break up the large organic molecules improving the efficiency of your skimmer.

g) Keep alkalinity between 10,5 and 11.5 dKH

h) Supplement alkalinity with Kalk in addition to Ca Reactor.

i) Vacuum as much as the Cyano as you can.

j) A loaded refugium with Chaetomorpha will also help reduce some of the nutrients.

h) If your PH is consistently low increase aeration. This will reduce the dissolved CO2 which also helps the algae.

i) I may risk flaming but if your sand bed is more than one year old (which yours is not) vacuum the sand as deep as you can and as much as you can reach (No need to go under the rocks) This action is specially needed if cyano grows on the sand surface and not only on the rocks.
It is my experience that most of the times we do not keep perfect sand beds. Excessive feeding, that cute Jaw fish or wrasse we can't resist can decimate the critters that the sand needs and as a result most often than not our sand accumulates lots of organics. You will not be surprised if you will be siphoning something very similar to skimmate out of the under-sand.
After this you can get a couple of fauna kits to replenish some of the critters and if you have a good functioning refugium I would not even bother with the kits.

j) Last but not least, keep your rock clean. No matter how much flow we will have, crevices, pores and holes will accumulate detritus. Regularly blow it off with the use of a power head so they can be removed by the skimmer. Corals love this as releases a lot of food and bacteria. every time I blow the rock my gorgonians and feather duster expand like there is no tomorrow trying to catch as much of the feast.
I use a MJ 1200 powerhead. get the tip of a turkey baster cut in half. Use the tapered tip as a nozzle for the powerhead to increase the flow speed and use your thumb finger to throttle the amount of water by partially covering the powerhead inlet as needed. Blow the rocks, put the tip against small holes and you will see all the stuff getting out. As a safety precaution, insure that there is a GFCI outlet were you connect the powerhead as you want to be protected against potential electric shock.

Once the slime is well settled and thriving you may find out that even reducing or fixing the source of the problem it will still be there and thrive as it seems to have a way of feeding itself.
This is were chemicals come into play.
Chemi Clean and Red Slime remover are both very safe and effective and by experience I can tell totally reef safe. It was also my experience that after their use I got a noticeable improvement in extension, color and growth from my clams, SPS and LPS corals.
Stick to the doses recomended and if possible try half a dose first before going full blown.

Chemi Clean seems to work by oxidizing the Organics while Red Slime remover seems to be some Erythromycin based compound.

When using Chemi- Clean during the treatment you need to remove carbon and any other adsorber (Purigen, Phosphate removers etc.) and turn off your skimmer. It is very important to increase your aeration because of the lack of the skimmer and because ChemiClean will use some of the Oxygen Dissolved in the water to react with the organics.
Right after the application your water will look like you dumped some kind of detergent. The more organics the more foam seems to be created. Also your ORP will drop to levels of 150 mv and will start increasing back on during the following 24 hours until levels way above what you originally had.

I will try using ChemiClean first. Compared with Red Slime remover, If Chemi-clean is a shotgun, Red Slime remover is a cannon as it seems to be a lot faster and more aggressive.

When using Red Slime remover you need to take similar precautions shutting down your skimmer and removing adsorbents. Upon application you water will turn Yellow green (First time I used it I got shocked by this so now you know what to expect). The discoloration will go away after 24 hours and there will be not staining at all.
The other thing you will notice is not a drop in ORP but a drop in PH so it is very important to start with alkalinity rather at the higher limit of the range 11 to 12 dKH.

In both cases prepare a good batch of fresh water mix. After the treatment you will need to make a large water change. of 20% minimum. I personally did two changes of 25% within two days after the treatment. This will insure that you are removing additional nutrient due to the sudden cyano die off.
Also to minimize this addition of nutrients due to the die off, try to vacuum as much cyano as you can before each treatment.

As a result you will get rid of the Cyano but notice that your water will be cleaner so other types of nuisance algae will also go away (My Chaeto stopped growing for about a month after all this) keep an eye on filter feeders (Feathers, Clams etc.) as many of them depend on organics. For a little while you may need to spot feed them If they were starving before the tratment, they will really need some nutrient afterwards as you may have removed much of it.

[BigShot]

Huge thanks jdieck and everyone else.

[jdieck]

I knew I will be a reefer forever after my battle with cyano and not quitting. In my two years since the setup all other issues of reefing seem simple in comparison.

[BigShot]

Even HAIR ALGAE? :-)

[rockster]

well, we have not only used chemi-clean, but performed several experiments.

yes, there are multiple causes for cyano, but if you get it, the best way to eliminate is CHEMI-CLEAN..

fact: chemi clean does more than eliminate the cyano, it will eliminate the organica that are causng it

chemi-clean oxidizes organics as well as eliminating cyano without harming corals et al..

after using the chemi clean, you then follow instructions for maintaining good water parameters.. period.

because the system is only 5 months young has zip to do with cyano..

cyano can attack a 3 year old reef just as easy..

please, read this:


commercial link removed-wizardgus

and then be sure that you are not feeding in excess...

read about phosphorus as in phosphates and flake and frozen foods.

commercial link removed-wizardgus
now, i do not desire to argue, but one person/s snails are not another person/s snails..

we tried every animal we could, gets expensive.. so does water changes and other fixes.. I agree, good water husbandry is the ultimate answer.. but , get rid of it FIRST

it is hit or miss at best otherwise. I am not a chemical person at all, but when someone asks me about cyano, i must say, the fix involves discovering WHY one gets it.. and all the measures to eliminate like water changes and lights out are not as good or efficent as Chemi Clean for the initial attack..

also, CC worked fine with hard, soft invertebrates and everthing.. JUST FOLLOW instructions, after, 20% water change.. then just be sure you follow a pattern of checking your water QUALITY PARAMETERS...keep alk and ph where it should be and skim and SLOW DOWN FEEDING if you are feeding fish...

rock

[jdieck]

Hair algae usually gives you more time and lots of early signals as it starts in small patches but Cyano just pops up out of no were and you are invaded in just a couple of days.
In reality I might be exagerating a bit as for Cyano we have some good chemicals to get rid off (My issue is that I was very reluctant to use them and no mater how much work, time and money I spent trying to get rid of it it was so frustrating.

In the case of Hair Algae there is no such a thing as a chemical that can really make it go as fast. Here you need long term patience and reducing Nitrates might be more difficult than getting rid of organics although many actions will work for both. So yes you may be right so what about....

"You will never be a real reefer until you have battled a good algae bloom and won!"

Having said that you know which one I am scare the most?
Bubble Algae. Needs little to no light and very low nutrients on the undetectable levels!

[rockster]

i forgot something..


"Livestock: Regal and Yellow Tangs, Flame and Coral Beauty angels, 4 sharknose gobies, 2 percula clowns, 3 cleaner shrimps, snails and hermite crabs.
Corals: green star polyps, flexible leather, purple tip acropora frag, blue mushrooms, hammer coral."

your fish population is quiet large for a 5 month old system,,,

BUT!!!!

do not siphon the sand bed after a year, that is NOT necessary..

the bed must remain undisturbed below the top inch at leasts.. it needs TIME to mature..


CYANO STARTING ON THE SAND BED does not mean it is caused from a "polluted" sand bed...

heck no...

I must say, if one simply follows a pattern and develops a habit of WATER QUALITY, meaning good flow, turkey-basting rocks (as explained above) evey few days, PH and ALK levels at correct AND STABLE parameters, and feeds in several small feedings rather than one large, rinses FROZEN FOODS LIKE BRINE SHRIMP, watches there addition of FLAKE FOODS, and skims, they will eliminate Cyano..


I will bet that the load of fish X feeding verses the maturity of the system is the cause

look, a 125 gallons with sand bed, live rock, skimmer 9 fish, 80 corals, 100 inverts and more.. had the first cyano out break ever and it was two years after setup...tryed EVERYTHING.. until Chemi-clean,,,


then we set up four 20 gallons and duplicated the outbreak.. my answers are in the article that is linked in the post i placed before this one.

[jdieck]

Originally posted by rockster
do not siphon the sand bed after a year, that is NOT necessary..

CYANO STARTING ON THE SAND BED does not mean it is caused from a "polluted" sand bed...

heck no...

I knew it.. I kenw it.. I knew it...

OK, do not vacuum the sand, test it instead. Just use a 1/4 plastic rigid pipe with a hose. Insert it to the bottom of the sand and siphon small amount of water. See what comes out and decide.

Happy reefing!

[kayakrob]

i thinki have a cyano bacteria problem! The lady at the fish store said i just needed to bring up my alkalinity with superbuffer, and it would go away. i have been adding it and it is still spreading. it is red/brown, thick looks like pudding on my sand, and i'm really worried about it!!! will it kill my fish and coral???? i'm going to go but chemi-clean as soon as i find a store around me that sells it. but wil it destroy my tank and if so how sooN sorry to add my problem into this thread, but i didnt want to start a new one on the same topic.