280 gallon tank project has begun!!!!!! - Page 17

Travis · #**401** 04/07/2006, 04:35 PM

I don't plan on skimming the QT only because I don't have a skimmer right now. I think the weekly 30 gallon water changes should keep nutrients in check. I also filled the sump with LR from the QT for some biological filtration. I just finished quarntining 20 chromis so the rock should still be fresh with good bacteria.

melev · #**402** 04/07/2006, 04:44 PM

If you don't feed the q-tank, odds are the corals will be fine.

tangdiver · #**403** 04/07/2006, 05:41 PM

Copied from AEFW let the battle begin...

I left the 'meds' in for 5 hours and 25 minutes (before starting to drain and swish). I drained a little bit of water from the 20L (~5 gallons) into a 15 gallon tub for the swishing. After getting most of the larger pieces out, I started swishing in the 20L with the powerhead. It took 40 minutes to swish everything (violently...). I used a MJ 1200 to blow off everything I could from the frags and rock, then gave everything a nice violent swish and moved it into the WC water in a 37 gallon tub from the display from just before the swish. I then rinsed everything from the tank (equipmentwise) in hot water under the spray nozzle in the kitchen sink, including the 20L. A few fat FW's were still clinging to the sides of the tank. They melted away under the hot water. That took 25 minutes. The it took 35 minutes to put the corals back into the 20L with water from the main display WC.

Most of the acros were sliming out a little and it looks like there is some lightening, but that may be from the full assault from the powerhead. I may have a few casualties, but right now, they seem to be smaller pieces that can be replaced. The water after the swishing was pretty foul. They got a 100% water change. I'll inspect tomorrow to see if I have any roamers on the glass and to see how everythign makes it through. Alot of them were showing polyps as soon as I put them in the 37 gallon tub.

Is this what you might do...hard to get all dying ones...in a 75...I plan on setting up 75 gallon also to do...might be Sunday...let me know your thoughts on it when you are done...thanks,

Grant

Lunchbucket · #**404** 04/07/2006, 07:15 PM

OH CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you have to be kidding right??? crap man!!!! i'm sorry to hear. i hop you didn't get them from me. i have seen no signs of ill corals and haven't for months. everything is colorign up nice and growing well.

i need to start doing some searches on AEFW's and how to spot them!!!! the only coral that looks bad is my Cali Tort. when i put the steam in it is in the direct path of it and it has receeded some tissue. i HOPE that is why.

i guess i'm going to see what the signs are and flashlight all my corals.

IF i do have them can i bring my corals to your 75gal if you have room??? that way it will save me setting up a QT tank?

hope you got some sleep...now i'm all worried

and freaking out

Lunchbucket

Travis · #**405** 04/07/2006, 07:27 PM

tangdiver, IMO, that guy was too aggressive with his treatment. A few posts later you will see he posts some pics of a bunch of his large colonies RTN'ing. I haven't decided yet exactly what I will do during the treatment. The corals are already packed in pretty tight so not much room for swishing or siphoning. I was kind of planning on just letting the corals soak in the treatment for 5 hours with powerheads and a heater and then just siphoning all the treatment water down the drain and refilling the tank with the original water + 30 gallons of new water. I will have to read through the levamisole thread again to see if the swishing is needed or not. I think I remember reading a couple posts by Mitch stating that the AEFW's start dropping off the corals dead after like 30 minutes but I could be remembering wrong.

Hey Lunch, just tried returning your call. I just wanted to give you a call and give you a heads up about what was going on so you could inspect your corals for any signs. I don't know where I got them from and I honestly don't care. The important part is that I'm getting rid of these bastages. I really don't have any extra room in the 75. It is jam packed with corals right now. I think there is like 1/8" between each coral.

LittleBlueGT · #**406** 04/07/2006, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Travis
There has been threads about BB tanks needing shorter photoperiods so that is why I figured 4 hours would be a photoperiod to drop down to. Heck, some BB SPS keepers are only running their MH's for 4 hours.

I have a 24 inch deep BB system as well.

I ran my 250 DE for about 9 hrs per day. (BTW I have T5 and VHO that run for 12 hrs a day) I have a linear light mover. I recently dropped my photo-period down to 6 hrs per day and in about 6 weeks some of my dorals lost a bit of color. I then raised it to 8 hrs a day and many have regained color.

Lunchbucket · #**407** 04/08/2006, 11:05 AM

Travis - i have a remora HOT skimmer laying around. i'll let you borrow that.

well the news of AEFW's had gotten me all hyped up and stessed out. i have been checking all my acros as i could have them to as Travis and i have traded frags, gotten frags from other people, and now he confirmed has them. not saying that i have them or i even got them from him (too many places that could have infected my tank).

i have seen NO signes of recession other then blasting a coral w/ too much flow from a Tunze, seeing recession in very shaded areas on the bottome of a coral. i have not lost a coral in 5-6months and that was a baby sized frag that my yellow eye kole tang "cleaned" too much.

well i have been searching all of my corals w/ a flashlight at night and have seen nothing...but i guess sometimes you don't see them. i dont' seen any damage people are describing either besides the recession on the underside of some corals that wouldn't get optimal light or flow there.

i did just get a A loripies (maybe) colony that i inspected really well last night and thought i notieced what was two clutches of eggs. they might have been the size of a pin head (each clutch) but there were down on a part of the acro that had been receeded since i got it (~1month ago). i can't tell from everyones pics how big the eggs acually are...ours were TINY...if there were even eggs. i looked the acro over and noticed nothing that i could tell was an AEFW. there was recession on the bottom but i'm not sure if it was due to the lack of light and flow down there or if i'm freaking myself out and thinking i have the dreaded AEFW's. what other things would make clutched of eggs (if that is what they were)????

hope your tank gets back on track Travis!!
Lunchbucket

melev · #**408** 04/08/2006, 11:31 AM

To pull this thread off track and talk about me for minute

I figured out last night why my skimmer stop pulling out skimmate. As some of you may know, I have the gate valve modification on my skimmer, and I'd put a PVC cap on to the top of the vent pipe to silence the gurgling. When I pulled it off, its release was sudden after a salt-seal was broken. As soon as that occured, the bubbles rose up the neck quickly.

Apparently once that part sealed, it created a vapor-lock which has only lasted two days. I'm glad to see it was a simple solution, and now I know what to watch for. I might drill a small hole similar to the Durso method.

All done. Back to talking about Travis' tank again.

Lunchbucket · #**409** 04/08/2006, 05:16 PM

thanks for the update melev. why do you have that cap on there anyhow? it isn't needed at all. if you do put it on there i would at least drill a hole on there

Lunchbucket

Travis · #**410** 04/08/2006, 06:29 PM

Melev, thanks for the update. I thought it was strange that your skimmer stopped pulling out any skimmate after starting Prodibio since most people have increased skimmate production for a while.

I am 2 hours into the first treatment. The polyps closed up within the first 10 minutes on 80% of the acros. Also, within the first 10 minutes there were a bunch of pods, brittle stars, and asterina stars blowing around in the current. Went and checked on the tank again at 2 hours and there are lots of FW's blowing around. Probably 50 or more, which is less than I expected to see but good to see the treatment is working. 3 more hours to go for the first treatment. Then I will take each coral out and shake it and turkey baste it in a bucket and then put it in a holding tank. Once all the coral are out of the 75, I will drain it, wipe it down, rinse off the pumps and refill it and add the corals.

melev · #**411** 04/08/2006, 06:35 PM

Travis, if you have airline tubing along with some rigid, use that to make a small vacuum and siphon out any you can see. You might as well get them out of the tank while their visible. You can always dump the water back in the hospital tank.

Eric - they're is an annoying gurgling sound, which the cap muffles entirely. I've had it like this since I did the modification 8 months ago, but the problem arose a few days ago. I'll probably drill a hole in it, like you said.

Btw, both of you have some fancy-smancy skimmers. Why don't you post a few images of your toys in the Picture of the Week thread in the Photography forum? I'm getting no love at the moment.

Travis · #**412** 04/08/2006, 07:01 PM

Marc, I will probably hold on off siphoning them for now. After the treatment is over, I am going to siphon all of the treatment water down the drain so they will get siphoned out when I do that.

melev · #**413** 04/08/2006, 07:09 PM

I was just thinking it would be prudent to remove what you can see so they can't land elsewhere and crawl into a good 'spider hole'.

Plus, if they are dying, what are they releasing into the water?

Lunchbucket · #**414** 04/08/2006, 09:57 PM

fancy smancy skimmers huh

Travis's is...mine isn't that fancy. if i get around to it i'll post

wonder why you are getting gurggling.

Travis - glad you are seeing some of the DEAD!! DIE DIE DIE!! hope the acros bounce back w/ no ill signs.

i'm still searching to see if i have any

Lunchbucket

Wayupnorth · #**415** 04/08/2006, 10:10 PM

Hey Travis I haven't been around in a while and don't feel quite up to reading the whole thread and was just wondering how you are liking your BK skimmer? I am still running the 400ext. and am very pleased with mine - I must be as I have ordered another one - BK500ext.
Also sorry to hear about all your problems (I did read the last few pages). I was also trying to use the zeovit system but have stopped as I am having so much trouble getting a zeo reactor and the system just was not working right without one. I have actually paid for a reactor it's just that the argueing back and forth between the builder and the supplier has meant that I still don't have one after just about 8 months! I finally became so frustrated that I just quit. I have a whole whack of zeo products which I will probably try again one day if I don't decide to do the Poylylabs reef-fresh system.

Travis · #**416** 04/09/2006, 12:25 AM

Just finished treatment 1. Talk about a lot of work.

What I did was siphoned water from the 75 into a 30 and a 20. I got the water level in the 75 down to 8.5", which was exactly 30 gallons. I then added the appropriate amount of Levamisole to get me to 40ppm. At the end of the 5 hour treatment I took each coral one by one and held it a few inches from a mag2 pump in the tank and moved the coral around making sure the flow got in the crevices. I was suprised to see a lot of large (1/4"-3/8") FW's stuck on the corals and also on the bottom of the tank. I never saw these on the corals before so they must have been hidden well. At the end of the treatment they were clear and actually looked white on the corals so they were easy to spot. It took a lot of flow to get some of them out of the nooks and crannies because they were still holdong on really tight. After blasting each coral I placed it in one of the holding tanks. Then drained all the treatment water from the 75 and wiped the bottom and walls well with some towels. I then washed the pumps and PVC fittings (used to support corals) under the faucet as some of them had FW's clinging to them. Then I filled the tank with 30 gallons of fresh saltwater (aged for 2 weeks) and then filled as much from the holding tanks as I could before starting to expose the corals. Then I moved each coral one by one back into the quarantine tank.

Now what I am very suprised about is the amount of FW's still alive at the end of the treatment. 2 hours into the treatment I saw a lot of dead ones blowing around that were about the size of this "o" or a little smaller. But the large ones were still alive and clinging to anything they could in the end. Hopefully I was able to get them all out as they were somewhat easy to spot on the corals and blow off. I'm really hoping that the little ones did die and only the big ones survived but that I got them all out. Otherwise, this may be a never ending battle.

I did save the large ones that were still living and will be performing some tests on them to try to find out what will kill them. If I get really ambitious I may set up a tank for them and try to learn more about their life cycle.

Here is a pic of the live ones that I saved in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket. This picture was taken about 10 minutes ago. The water in the bucket is the treatment water. So they have been in 40ppm Levamisole for 8.5 hours and are still alive.

Travis · #**417** 04/09/2006, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wayupnorth
Hey Travis I haven't been around in a while and don't feel quite up to reading the whole thread and was just wondering how you are liking your BK skimmer? I am still running the 400ext. and am very pleased with mine - I must be as I have ordered another one - BK500ext.
Also sorry to hear about all your problems (I did read the last few pages). I was also trying to use the zeovit system but have stopped as I am having so much trouble getting a zeo reactor and the system just was not working right without one. I have actually paid for a reactor it's just that the argueing back and forth between the builder and the supplier has meant that I still don't have one after just about 8 months! I finally became so frustrated that I just quit. I have a whole whack of zeo products which I will probably try again one day if I don't decide to do the Poylylabs reef-fresh system.

Hi wayupnorth,
I saw you were getting that 500 ext. from a thread you had started over on the "other" forum. That thing will be a true beast. Have you recieved it yet? You probably didn't miss much if you have read the last couple pages of this thread because there were no posts for about 2 months up until a couple days ago. I really love my skimmer. It is the most stable skimmer I have ever run. I am able to run it nice and wet where it just bubbles at the top of the neck but doesn't collect and dry foam. It just bubbles and as the bubbles pop it throws particulates into the collection cup. Even though I have it running this wet, the skimmate still has a nice dark color. It really is an awesome skimmer. Every skimmer I've ran or played with in the past could not run this wet and stable without occasionally overflowing the cup.

I almost started ZEOvit also. A guy was making me a reactor and kept telling me it would be done by the end of the week every week for 6 weeks. I don't think he ever really even started on it. I got frustrated and also got to thinking about how expensive the ongoing costs of the system would be and decided to back out. I would like to maybe try Prodibio or Polyp Labs' System Reef-fresh in the future. But that won't be for a while with the problems I'm dealing with right now. That is just crazy the issues you are having with getting a reactor. Can you just order a commercial one and be done with it? Not sure what size system it will be going on. All of the commercial ones I've seen can only handle a few hundred gallons so it might require multiple reactors. From what I've read, the ~I-spin reactors are supposed to be really nice. Otherwise, you could probably just get in touch with an acrylic fabricator and have them make one for you. They are a pretty simple design. I would bet you could probably get geosreef.com or myreefcreations.com or some other similar acrylics fabricator to make one for you.

melev · #**418** 04/09/2006, 05:46 AM

Travis, can you please take a few macro shots of these flatworms for my ID page? I'd like to add them to the predator section. If you see any living ones on your SPS, try to get a couple of pictures on the coral as they'd look "normal" and others would know what to look for.

Alternately, you can put something in the picture like a penny for sense of scale. Images need only be 640 x 480, and I'll give you photo credit of course.

maxxII · #**419** 04/09/2006, 08:01 AM

Marc,
I'm at work, so I dont have access to links etc....but if you go to the SPS forum, and open the "AEFW's in a Bowl test time" thread, you'll see some great shots by Weatherson and others. He's already given Sean T permission to use his images of AEFW's for instructional purposes.

Nick

Travis · #**420** 04/09/2006, 10:59 AM

So I have to admit, I got lazy last night. With all that has been going on (finding FW's, tearing down display, setting up QT, treating, etc., etc.) I only got 8 hours of sleep in 3 days. So after the treatment last night I pretty much passed out and left the surviving FW's in the bucket. Went down to check on them 5 minutes ago and they are definitely toasted. Tried to irritate them by touching them with a toothpick and all of them immediately turned to slime.

What finally killed them could be:
MOST LIKELY:
The extended exposure to the medication (19 hours total).
NOT VERY LIKELY:
Stagnant water and lack of 02 as there was no circulation in the bucket.
LEAST LIKELY:
Reduced temperature due to no circulation or heater. The temp in the bucket is probably at around 73-74. I think this is the least likely considering how tuff these things are.

When I went to check on the corals this morning I was expecting them to still looked stressed out. I was even expecting some RTN, possibly on some of the pieces that didn't look like they were going to make it before I found out I had FW's. To my suprise, the corals looked really good. No bleaching, no loss of color, and good polyp extension in all of the corals that were exhibiting good polyp extension before the treatment. What definitely didn't expect to see was increased polyp extension from some of the corals that were looking very bad and exhibiting minimal to zero polyp extension before the treatment. Some of the corals are extending mesenterial filaments out the wazoo. It is hard to tell if this is due to stress or if it is a feeding response. I am adding ZEOvit AAHC (a high concentrate ammino acid supplement) and CV (a high quality coral food) so it could likely be a feeding response to these. I had just started adding these 2 supplements to my display a couple days before finding the FW's and I did notice an increase in mesenterial filament extension at night after adding them.

Travis · #**421** 04/09/2006, 11:03 AM

melev, since the FW's are nothing but slime now it is too late to get any pics. My camera sucks at macros too. But if I find any more during the quarantine time or subsequent treatments I'll try to get some macros. As maxxII stated, there are some good pics in that thread, there are also some decent pics in the Sean T's "Acro Eating Flatworms, I got em, you treat em" thread.

Wayupnorth · #**422** 04/09/2006, 11:19 AM

Yea I could go ahead and order another commercial one and actually thought that I had - just never have recieved it. I am a bit stubborn as well and figure if I pay for something I should actually get it! I am a bit limited in space for a reactor - not so much in sump space but in the clearance I have between the bottom of my tank and top of my sump which is a PITA. I think I am just going to carry on for now as everything is getting back to normal. I switched to the Seachem salt but did not notice any of the issues that you had with it and I tested each bag I have opened so far (at the time I could only get boxes with 3 bags in each and have subsequently ordered and recieved pails). I actually wish that I had just switched this tank to the Tropic Marin Pro salt as that is what I am running on my 230g, 44g and Nanos and am really really pleased with this salt. The reason I went with the Seachem on my 190 is because the Tropic Marin was not a recommended salt for zeovit.
FWIW I had the same experience with the reactor - it's built, it's just about done, it's been shipped, don't understand why you haven't got it............. bottom line is I never did recieve it and still don't have one!!!!!!!

Wish you well on getting rid of your flatworms, (fingers crossed and furiously knocking on my wooden head) I have never had them and hope I never do.
Ruth

Travis · #**423** 04/09/2006, 11:51 AM

Wayupnorth, interesting observations on the salts. What differences have you observed between the two tanks with one running Seachem and the other running Tropic Marin Pro? FWIW, the Seachem rep I was in contact with said that they found their "insosistent batch" problem as an issue in their quality control area. They sent me out enough free salt to make up for the salt that I had purchased. Because of this alone, I will probably stay with Seachem because I like to support companies that care about their customers. I'm guessing the Tropic Marin Pro salt is not recommended for ZEOvit tanks for the same reason that Reef Crystals is not recommended. I know Reef Crystals is not recommended because it has added trace elements and the ZEO people think these trace elements will build up over time. I'm not sure if I agree with that and I don't think there is any evidence to back it up. I do know there are some people running ZEO and Reef Crystals salt and getting good results.

Wayupnorth · #**424** 04/09/2006, 12:10 PM

You know Travis it's really just an observation thing because they actually test fairly close to the same levels when I have tested. Tropic Marin that has been mixed and aggitating for about 12 hours. Temp. is 79 degrees and SG is 1.026

Calcium: 480
Alk/hardness: 8.6
Mg.: 1410

Seachem salt:
Mixed and heated for 48 hrs - I usually only do 24hrs. but I was not feeling well last night so did not do my test and water change

Alk/hardness - 9.6 DKH
Calcium - 420
Mg. - 1320
The Mg. and Calcium are higher in the Tropic Marin so maybe that is it.

melev · #**425** 04/09/2006, 12:27 PM

Thanks for the suggestions about the pictures, guys. I'll do that.

That's great news about your acros, Travis. Keep up the good fight. Let's hope everything turns around now.