Ice melter question

[Engine 7]

I posted in the reef chemistry forum with this question. Maybe one of you guys know.
I am starting to run low on 2 part mix which I sometimes use to suppliment my kalk reactor. My last few gallons were made from ingredients from 2partsolution.com.
This winter I started using an ice melter on the front walkway that looks to be a Dowflake clone. It is the small white pellets. Does anybody know if its safe to make into calcium additive?
Thanks in advance.


http://www.scotwoodindustries.com/

77-80% Calcium Chloride Flake 77-80%
Physical Properties:
Appearance: White Flakes
Odor: Odorless
Density: 1.85g/cm3(20ºC)
Solubility: Soluble in water
Vapor Pressure: N/A
Vapor Density: N/A
Typical Properties:
Calcium Chloride: 77%MIN
Total Alkaili Salts (as NaCl),max: 3.07%
Total Magensium ( as MgCL2), max: 0.017%
Other Impurities, max: 0.008%
Calcium Hydroxide,max: 0.10%
Calcium Carbonate, max: 0.008%
Saltate (as SO4), max: 0.07%
Iron (as FE), max: 0.0020%
Heavy Metals (as PB), max: 0.0005%
Composition/Information on Ingredients:
Chemical Formula: CaCl2 – 2H20
Molecular Weight: 147.03
Chemical Family: Inorganic Salt
Packaging:
For calcium chloride in the form of flakes. Polyethylene bags or polyethylene big-bags
with polyethylene lining or polyethylene-coated.
Single or palletized bags, pallets wrapped in a thermally shrinkable foil.

[cas]

I have heard that the newer Dowflake has a high Boron (?) content and most of the other deicers are made by Dow as well.

I have not heard of any long term effects from the increased Boron, but people have been expressing concern.

[saleenpwr88]

Anybody use the brand above? I heard the Boron levels are not significant for how much we would use in our tanks to be an issue with the new batches of Dowflake either.

[Engine 7]

I was the one that posted the link to the "new" fomula for Dowflake. I posted it last week. I then found out that the formula changed a couple years ago. I think that anybody using straight Dowflake in the last couple years has been using it with increased boron levels without incident.
If noone has used the above product in their tanks sucessfully, I wont either.
Then again, I could be completely wrong.

[five.five-six]

try the search function, most people wouldn't use it or the more common DOW PELADOW because it is not food grade. it has been around a long time,

[Engine 7]

556!! Welcome back! Did you figure out how to use the phosban reactor yet???LOL.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1279773

[five.five-six]

Originally posted by Engine 7
556!! Welcome back! Did you figure out how to use the phosban reactor yet???LOL.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1279773

if you figured out how to make a link work, why don't you click on it and read for yourself..

btw, are you still advising nubes to dump 1/2 gallon of kalkwaser in they're 90 gallon tanks twice a day ???

or giving dangerous advice on electrical wiring?


seriously, advising a nube to stress out his tank twice a day is pretty bad, but then you go on to give faulty electrical advice, I mean what gives, you claim to be a fire fighter and one would think you have seen your share of people killed and injured, or just left homeless from faulty wiring, but you have no problem advising people to make improper neutral-to-case connections..I don't get you

don't think I am picking on you, you just give some of the most ignorant advice i have ever read

[Engine 7]

Oh please LOL. You cant be serious. Are you really going to follow me around and show links to things I say and make it look like I am giving bad advise? You cant figure out how to use a phosban reactor yet you feel its a good idea to retaliate to my posts in that thread by coming here and starting a fight? LOL. You read into thosee posts and looked for something to contest. Give us a break and go back to your reactor and see if you can get it going.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1279773

[poo-tang]

honestly, i'd use it, but then again you sound about as reckless as me.

[Engine 7]

Not worth taking a chance. A member has 50 lbs of the old Dowflake he is giving me that will work...for about 10 years
I was just wondering if it would work at all safely.

[five.five-six]

sir, this article by the nec addresses exactly what you advised

and you defend it ??? i may have a small problem with a sub par reactor, but advising people on faulty wireing, sir you have been trained to know better

BTW, my phosban reactor is working great..so get off that


Proper Neutral-to-Ground (Case) Connections

By Mike Holt, NEC Consultant for EC&M Magazine

Improper neutral-to-case connections can cause fire hazards, electrocution, improper operation of protection devices, and power quality problems. Therefore, it’s important to make them only at service equipment and on separately derived systems in accordance with 250.142 of the 2002 NEC.

How do you prevent fire, electric shock, or improper operation of circuit protection devices and other equipment? By stopping objectionable current (neutral return current) from flowing on electrical equipment, grounding paths, and bonding paths as required by the NEC in 250.6. To do this, you must keep the grounded (neutral) conductor separated from the metal parts of equipment, except as required for service equipment in 250.24(B) and on separately derived systems in 250.30(A)(1) and 250.142. Making the proper neutral-to-case connections is the key.

Consequences of improper neutral-to-case connections. There are several consequences of improper neutral-to-case connections that range in severity from problems with equipment to the death of an employee.

Fire hazard. Improper wiring that results in the flow of neutral current on grounding and bonding paths can cause enough excess heat to cause a fire. Fire occurs when the temperature rises high enough to ignite adjacent combustible material in an area that contains sufficient oxygen.

Electrocution. Death from an electric shock can occur when the touch voltage is above 30V rms, and as little as 30 mA flows though the body. These conditions can easily exist when improper neutral-to-case connections are made and the neutral is opened.

Improper operation of protection devices. Nuisance tripping of a protection device equipped with ground-fault protection can occur if neutral current returns on the equipment-grounding conductor instead of the neutral conductor. Current can return this way because of multiple and illegal neutral-to-case bonds.

A circuit breaker with ground-fault protection (480Y/277V, 3-phase system over 1,000A) uses the residual current method to detect a ground fault. On a 3-phase, 4-wire system, the trip unit will sum the currents in the 3-phase conductors and in the neutral. When no ground fault is present, the summation of currents flowing on A+B+C+N will equal zero. Any current flow not equal to zero is considered a ground fault.

Where multiple neutral-to-case bonds have been made, neutral current will flow on the equipment-grounding path. Depending on the impedance of this path versus the neutral conductor path, the ground fault protective relay may see current flow above its pickup point and cause the protective device to open the circuit.

If there are multiple neutral-to-case bonds and a ground fault occurs, the protection relay might not operate, because some of the ground-fault current won’t flow on the equipment grounding conductor. Some fault current returns on the neutral conductor, partially bypassing the ground fault protective device.

Power quality problems. When objectionable neutral current travels on the metal parts of equipment because of improper neutral-to-case connections, the electromagnetic field generated from circuit conductors will not cancel out. This uncanceled net current flowing on metal parts of equipment and structural parts causes elevated electromagnetic fields. These low-frequency electromagnetic fields can negatively affect electronic devices.

Common improper neutral-to-case connections. The most common improper neutral-to-case bonds occur in panelboards, separate building disconnects, transformers, and generators. Neutral current will flow on metal underground water piping systems where the water service to the building is metallic. However, this occurs only if the underground water pipe system is metallic and connected to other buildings. Although this isn’t an NEC violation, you need to be aware of such situations.

Panelboards. Bonding of the neutral terminal to the case of a panelboard, which isn’t part of service equipment or separately derived systems, creates a parallel path for return neutral current. The result is neutral current (net current) flowing on the metal parts of electrical equipment and on the grounding and bonding conductors.

Connection at separate buildings. Where an equipment-grounding conductor is run with the feeder conductors to a separate building [250.32(B)(1)], some people make the common and dangerous mistake of making a neutral-to-case bond in the separate building disconnect. This ties the neutral and equipment grounding conductors together, allowing objectionable neutral current to flow on the feeder equipment-grounding conductor.

Separately derived systems. Making a neutral-to-case bond for a separately derived system at more than one location creates a parallel path for neutral return current.

Transformers. If a neutral-to-case bond is made at both the transformer and at the secondary panelboard, neutral current will flow through metal raceways (and on the grounding and bonding path) on its return to the power supply.

Generators. If the grounded (neutral) conductor in a transfer switch is not opened, the grounded (neutral) from the generator will be solidly connected to the utility’s service grounded (neutral) conductor. Under this condition, the generator isn’t a separately derived system, and a neutral-to-case bond must not be made at the generator or at the generator disconnect [250.20(D) FPN 1].

If a neutral-to-case bond is made at both the generator and generator disconnect, objectionable neutral current will flow through metal raceways-and on the grounding and bonding path-to the power supply.

Required neutral-to-case connections. The NEC offers guidelines on how to make neutral-to-case connections in the following applications:

Service disconnecting means [250.24(B)]. Services supplied by a grounded utility transformer must run a grounded (neutral) conductor from the electric utility transformer to each service disconnecting means. You must bond the grounded (neutral) conductor to each disconnecting means enclosure (neutral-to-case connection) by a screw or strap supplied by the equipment manufacturer [250.28].

The grounded (neutral) service conductor must be sized to safely carry the maximum ground-fault current likely to be imposed on it from where a ground-fault may occur [110.10]. Thus, you must size the grounded (neutral) conductor per Table 250.66, based on the total area of the largest ungrounded (hot) conductor. Also, the grounded (neutral) conductors must be able to carry the maximum unbalanced neutral current in accordance with 220.22.

If a grounded (neutral) service conductor, that serves as the effective ground-fault current path is open or not provided, then you can’t clear a ground fault, and the metal parts of electrical equipment and metal piping and structural steel will become-and remain-energized.

Transformers or other separately derived systems [250.30(A)]. To provide the low-impedance path necessary to clear a ground fault from the separately derived system, you must bond the metal parts of electrical equipment to the grounded (neutral) terminal (XO) of the derived system. You can make the neutral-to-case bond at the source of a separately derived system or at the first system disconnecting means. The bonding jumper used for this purpose shall be sized per Table 250.66, based on the area of the largest ungrounded conductor.

If you don’t install a bonding jumper from the equipment-grounding conductor to the grounded (neutral) terminal of the separately derived system, then you can’t clear a ground fault, and the metal parts of equipment, as well as metal piping and structural steel, will become and remain energized.

To protect against electric shock, fires and the improper operation of equipment from objectionable current on metal parts, make your neutral-to-case connections only at service equipment and separately derived systems in accordance with 250.142.


Copyright © 2003 Mike Holt Enterprises,Inc.
1-888-NEC-CODE (1-888-632-2633)

[Engine 7]

Oh My God.
Time to get the mods involved.
WOW

[five.five-six]

Originally posted by Engine 7
Oh My God.
Time to get the mods involved.
WOW

what's the matter, sicking your buddys on me isn't getting it,

all i did was awnser your question about cheep calcium chloride, and there you go flaming away...

if you don't like the awnser I gave, use the serch function, you will read the same thing again

[YolaKola]

Holy...... Dang......that's too much!!!!!!! What's up with this??????? Mods?!?!?! ANYONE?????

[geo]

Threads like these make the entire site look bad. I suggest you drop the agenda, or you will soon find yourself on the outside of RC looking in.