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  #26  
Old 12/03/2007, 09:15 AM
blackthunda77 blackthunda77 is offline
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Is it possible for him to no have released all of them yet? He seems like hes still not eating......then again it was just after he realeased the fry so maybe he didnt feel like eating just yet.
  #27  
Old 12/03/2007, 04:44 PM
acropora1981 acropora1981 is offline
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I've read that a lot of males release over several days. Sometimes over 3 days. Mine released all in one night, but i dont think thats the normal course of events.
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  #28  
Old 12/04/2007, 08:01 PM
blackthunda77 blackthunda77 is offline
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well his fins started to rot a little and the tail is a bit ragged now, but hes back to eating mysis and live brine like normal, so i hope he recoupes and they spawn again in the near future.....now for the fry

they actually all seem to be doing very well. its going to be day 3 tomorrow and i actually have no losses yet. now i know i will start to encounter some losses soon but im keeping my fingers crossed that it will be minimal.

my set up....well i actually dont have one as of yet, lol. i have them in a in tank fry rearing container. the plastic frame with the mesh netting. its in the main tank and i have a plastic plant in there to give them some shelter. I want to try to get to days 7-8 before i delve into a new fry rearing set up. i dont want to spend any more money if there going to die on me, or if the parents are not going to spawn again soon or more often.

as for now, im feeding them newly hatched bbs, they SEEM to be eating from what i can see. and there all still alive so im assuming theyre eating.

any physical signs that theyre eating? the stomach looks round any silvery, does that mean theyre eating?

what small(20 gal or less) rearing set ups do you guys out there have?

how long can you sustain the bbs on the hatching container before they go bad or are not fit to be fed to the hatchlings?

is there anything else i can feed the hatchlings this early? and when can i start to feed adult brine shrimp or frozen food?
  #29  
Old 12/05/2007, 10:51 PM
acropora1981 acropora1981 is offline
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Mine get red bellies after eating, b/c they're full of bbs. I can actually watch mine dart for food... and take it. I'm keeping mine in a 15 gallon with about 5 lbs of live rock and a sponge filter for up to 40 gallon tanks.

You're only supposed to feed bbs for up to 24 hours after hatching, after that they lose a lot of nutritional value. As far as I know, they'll only take small live foods at the early stages. bbs is perfect for cardinals. I hope you're decapsulating, otherwise bbs is a real pain in the butt, IMO
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  #30  
Old 12/05/2007, 10:54 PM
blackthunda77 blackthunda77 is offline
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i havent decapped the eggs yet because they were pre mixed but i want to for the next batch. what do you mean though that they are a pain in the butt? low hatch rate. or dangerous for the fry??
  #31  
Old 12/05/2007, 10:59 PM
blackthunda77 blackthunda77 is offline
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by the way, i moved the frags from my 5 gal back into my display to make the frag tank into the rearing tank. tonight im adding 3 of the 20+ fry in the frag tank to see if theyll be ok in there till the morning. if they are then i will prob put the rest of them in there tomorrow. Im drip acclimating them to make the transition as easy as possible, but i dont want to put them all in the frag take just in case something goes totally wrong. Chemistry was fine a couple days ago, and theres no fish in there so i cant imagine anything like amm, trite or trate to rise with pretty much no livestock in there. Hope all goes well.

I bought today something called cyclops. The employee told me that its better than cyclopeeze because the cyclopeeze is freeze dried, the cyclops it in forzen cubes like mysis. i tried to feed some to the fry but it didnt look like they were taking it. any advice on how to get them to take the cyclops? or should i keep with bbs till get get bigger?
  #32  
Old 12/05/2007, 11:51 PM
acropora1981 acropora1981 is offline
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I just find bbs hatch way faster, higher hate percentage, and no pesky shells to deal with when they're decapsulated. I tried hatching brine the normal way about 2 weeks prior to the bangaii's arriving, and it was taking like 40 hrs to hatch. With decapsulated I have like 80% hatched in about 26 hours, at 77 F.

I dont know how much success you'll have with frozen until the fry are older, but if you keep trying they might take it. I'm pretty new at this so im not sure. I'm on day 11 with these guys with no loses on just freshly hatched bbs. I'll try something else when they're a little bigger. As soon as I get the time, I'm going to order some Selco from a local aquaculture supply company and then i'll start feeding enriched 2 day old brine, to bring up the HUFA's...should make em grow faster.
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  #33  
Old 12/06/2007, 12:05 AM
blackthunda77 blackthunda77 is offline
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yea i just bought zoe, by kent marine. they said it was basically the same thing. One thing though, is i cant find out for the life of me why my male is having such bad fin rot. his pectoral fins and his tail have taken most of the brunt. like 50% loss. I dont know what is causing this. he is still eating though. man i hope he pulls through, i would like another shot at this spawing stuff. when you feed the fry, do you feed it in a specific way or do you dump a bunch of bbs inthe rearing tank and the fry go for it for themselves untill they are satisfied?
  #34  
Old 12/06/2007, 07:07 AM
billsreef billsreef is offline
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Did you seperate the male from the female? If not, I would strongly advise it. She might be giving him a hard time if he's not willing to spawn
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  #35  
Old 12/06/2007, 08:21 AM
blackthunda77 blackthunda77 is offline
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I did this morning, but it doesnt seem to be from agression, just looks like the fins are rotting. I dont know, ill keep an eye on him. hes in a seperate tank right now. Bad news though is that all but 3-4 of the fry died last night. i dont know what happened. Really bummed me out. they were ALL doing so well the first couple days.
  #36  
Old 12/06/2007, 02:30 PM
billsreef billsreef is offline
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The trials and tribulations of aquaculture.

It you think it's fin rot vs agression it would probably pay to treat him with some antibiotics, Nitrofuran or Maracyn II would be my top choices.

The biggest problem with mouth brooders is that they don't eat while brooding. This takes a toll on their reserves and immune systems. Considering how fast they spawned again after the first time, this is likely whats causing the current problem. So long as he's eating well he should fully recover.
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  #37  
Old 12/17/2007, 11:49 PM
acropora1981 acropora1981 is offline
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Talking

oh, also i changed the feeding regime this week and it has REALLY turbo charged growth. They get two feedings a day now, one with fresh hatched nauplii, the next with about 16 hr old nauplii enriched with HUFA's...growth has increased substantially.
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  #38  
Old 12/18/2007, 12:03 AM
acropora1981 acropora1981 is offline
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ok...my first post didnt go through and it was the main post...i hate that...

Anyway I thought I'd post and update at 3 weeks post release. So far I have no losses, i still have 26/26 fry that were released. They are still on BBS, but now i enrich every other feeding with selcon. I would love to hear from blackthunda77 to see how he faired after losing a few fry.

Anyway, I have some new pics. Its hard to see the size difference but you can definately see the difference in appearance (they're actually at LEAST twice the size...maybe 3x). You cant see it int the pics but the fry are starting to get the distinctive polkadots on the pectoral fins and are beginnning to look much more like bangaii cardinals and much less like stick figures! here there are:









So there it is. im enjoying this all too much! So much that I went and got a 12x 40 gallon breeding system (for free!) and I'm now collecting mated clownfish pairs! I got a mated pair of ocellaris and i have a mated pair of maroon clowns waiting for me, AND a mated pair of black percs comming in for me!!! Wholesale here i come! I think i'll probably start a thread about my clownfish system as soon as it has something in it

I'll submit more pics as the bangaii's develop
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  #39  
Old 12/18/2007, 12:17 AM
acropora1981 acropora1981 is offline
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sorry i couldnt resist posting a pic of my new breeding system! Here it is there are 12 40 gallon tanks and 2 sumps on racks...yahoo!

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  #40  
Old 12/18/2007, 08:17 AM
tcmfish tcmfish is offline
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your one lucky guy
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  #41  
Old 12/18/2007, 09:18 AM
AnOldSalt AnOldSalt is offline
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I used to use blackthunda's method all the time, and it worked well. The fry are easy to feed when corralled in the breeder net like that. The only catch is you have to keep the sides of the net clean by daily rubbing/toothbrushing, or the slime that soon develops clogs the holes and severely retards your water flow, which of course leads to big problems.

Is anything in the world cuter than a bunch of baby banggais?
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  #42  
Old 12/18/2007, 11:43 AM
FMarini FMarini is offline
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Even though I'v seen 1000 of baby banggais over the past 10 yrs, I can never get enough. Great shots

seems some refresher courses in breeding banggai are in order.


http://www.breedersregistry.org/Arti...ini/marini.htm
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/f_marini.html
http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog...ke_102499.html

What has worked for me to wean the banggers over to prepared foods is to mix live BBS w/ small portions of shaved shrimp, and over a 2 week period slowly ramp up the amount of prepard food, while decreasing the amt of live food.

and Zoe is not the same as Selco/selcon, Zoecon is selco+ vitamins. Zoe is only vitamins.
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  #43  
Old 12/18/2007, 03:52 PM
acropora1981 acropora1981 is offline
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FMarini...not sure i needed a refresher course, because im doing just fine But I would like to know what age/size you started weaning your bangaii's over to frozen?
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  #44  
Old 12/18/2007, 04:32 PM
FMarini FMarini is offline
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Acro-- not just you, but there are a bunch of questions that were asked above, and answered in reviewing the links--thats all.

Anyway, i started weaning around 3 weeks. Other things to try for prepared foods, are frozen cyclopeeze, prawn eggs, and shaved shrimp or fish

frank
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  #45  
Old 12/18/2007, 05:53 PM
blackthunda77 blackthunda77 is offline
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Unfortunatley ........i have had no success. After being 25/25 for 3 days i had 100% loss within 2 days. Also i have lost the parents too. When placing the father in the isolastion tank, i think that did him worse than good. Like i mentione above, he started having fin rot and i belive ich. A few days later the female passed away too. So i will be starting from square one really bummed out. If anyone knows where i can get a mated pair of bangaiis please let me know as i woule like to try again. Coming into it i bought the two fish just buying them, not thinking about breeding at all,and not even ginin a second thought to them pairing up, but when i saw the male carry the eggs one day it just sparked something in me and became an obsession. right now i changed things up a bit and a constructed a 20 gal high sump underneath my display and if i do get back into the breeding routine i think just transferring the fry into the sump will be less stressful, or leaving the fry in the tank in a breeders net and transferring the father into the sump. the consistent water parameters i think will help out alot. Personally i think the new powder brown i included in the tank a few weeks before, which got ich started the whole mishap in my tank, so no more tangs for me. If anyone has a pair the want to donate im here for you. lol
  #46  
Old 12/18/2007, 11:56 PM
seacraze seacraze is offline
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I just stumbled on this thread - this is amazing and I am floored at what great success your having with them! I look forward to reading more
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  #47  
Old 12/19/2007, 12:01 AM
seacraze seacraze is offline
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and blackthunda77 sorry to read you lost yours, I am sure you'll be back and running in no time
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  #48  
Old 12/19/2007, 02:08 AM
acropora1981 acropora1981 is offline
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FMarini - prawn eggs eh...can you get them at the supermarket? I cant get cyclopeze frozen in my area (Toronto) only freezedried). I will try the shaved shrimp (i assume you mean with a cheese grater?)

blackthunda77 - im sorry to hear of your loss. I can definately relate to what you said about sparking an obsession. I've been keeping marine tanks for 10 years and I never really cared about the fish - more of a coral guy. My tanks are sparsely fish populated, but breeding the bangaii's has made me go insane! I have my first fishroom on the go! I just picked up a pair of true percs tonight, and tomorrow I'm getting black percs! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...crazyness...hopefully i can turn it into a bit of a business
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  #49  
Old 12/19/2007, 10:23 AM
FMarini FMarini is offline
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Acro---
prawn eggs, lobster, eggs, you can even try the smallest fish eggs you can find (not pickled). AS for shaved shrimp, yes cheeze grater, the smallest shaved pieces and dripping. Also a good frozen mysis like PE, shaved as well, will work.

I know what you mean about obession. I had been keep marine fish since 1985, I started doing banggai's in 1995, I was hooked-line-n-sinker. Since I was the first who successful bred and reared these fish back in 1995, I have been an addict ever since.I've produced 1000s over the yrs

Problem is now I want to breed pretty much every other fish as well.
frank
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  #50  
Old 12/20/2007, 12:36 AM
acropora1981 acropora1981 is offline
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seacraze, maybe its because its 130 am and ive been waiting for a fish shipment for 3 and a half hours, but i am loving your quote! It makes me think of all the years i've been studying aquariums and fish and marine biology (preparation) and the opportunity of being given all these fish tanks!
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