This life of this forum (LPS) is basically gone

[Anemone]

Originally posted by gotdesl
Hence the reason that I suggested no identifying marks or credit given to the owner. Per my suggestion, they would just be pictures, nothing less... nothing more.

The problem is that the first questions is generally, "ooh, how do I get a frag?"

If there are no identifying features and the picture is not poted by the owner, then the first question would be, "who has this coral?"

Followed by, "how long have you had it?," "how fast does it grow?," "how big are the polyps?," "what lighting is it under?," has it changed color at all?," and finally "how do I get a frag/"

It's that last question that drives too many people to post pictures. They know they will get that question, and that is exactly what they want (and the reason for the picture post in the first place).

FWIW,
Kevin

[Anemone]

Originally posted by Jus Reefin
And that's YOUR opinion!

Yep, it's my opinion that you purposely posted an offensive statement (your opinion) in order to get a reaction.

Kevin

[beerguy]

Originally posted by Jus Reefin
That's always the answer..............

Did you stop to think that maybe that's always the answer because it's the truth?

[gotdesl]

I agree, but the same can be said for any decent piece of coral that gets posted on this board. It would take a lot of integrity from the person posting the pictures to not disclose ownership information, but I believe that it can be done. Then again, maybe I give people too much credit when it comes to honesty. By my original statement, I was trying to find a way to remain within the rules, yet still allow some of these pictures and discussions on that so many seemed to enjoy... myself included.

[shane 1111]

Originally posted by beerguy
Shane, within the context of this thread, the prices on LPS corals recently, I'm pretty sure that you could infer a meaning from my statement.

i still dont get it

[beerguy]

Originally posted by gotdesl
I agree, but the same can be said for any decent piece of coral that gets posted on this board. It would take a lot of integrity from the person posting the pictures to not disclose ownership information, but I believe that it can be done. Then again, maybe I give people too much credit when it comes to honesty. By my original statement, I was trying to find a way to remain within the rules, yet still allow some of these pictures and discussions on that so many seemed to enjoy... myself included.

Sure, and I appreciate that.

The best way to get pictures out would be to buy some frags, grown them out in your tank and share your success with us. That's really what we're about. It's a shame that we've had so many folks trying to take advantage of that goal, but it's the price that we pay for our size.

Cheers

[Anemone]

Originally posted by gotdesl
I agree, but the same can be said for any decent piece of coral that gets posted on this board. It would take a lot of integrity from the person posting the pictures to not disclose ownership information, but I believe that it can be done. Then again, maybe I give people too much credit when it comes to honesty. By my original statement, I was trying to find a way to remain within the rules, yet still allow some of these pictures and discussions on that so many seemed to enjoy... myself included.

I agree, but what Beerguy said about "price bubble" is the unfortunate truth. More than few picture posters appear out of nowhere as soon as a "hot coral" surfaces. They weren't posting pictures of that coral before it became a hot coral, but all of a sudden they are "sharing" pictures everywhere (oh yeah, and selling frags). It's happened in zoas and SPS, and now it's happening in LPS. When we clamp down, we shut out some real hobbyists who were posting these same corals before they became "hot," but unfortunately they are also selling them, and to be fair and consistent they can't post their pictures until the situation has stabilized either. It's just part of the cycle we go through.

Kevin

[gotdesl]

I understand and can appreciate RC's viewpoint.

[Flanders]

This is totally ridiculous. The LPS forum is far from dead, people are posting acan pics and asking and answering acan questions as I type this.

[Mark]

The people banned violated the rules. These rules have been this way for a long time. Not sure what you expect us to do, make exceptions for people that certain you have a liking to. Do you want us to express favoritism towards certain members? How would that make people feel that we allow certain people to break the rules, while cracking down on others. Plain and simple, they broke the rules repeatedly. They were warned, but continued to violate the rules of this board.

Now if you think there is a conspiracy to protect our sponsors, I'll be happy to confess that it is in our interest to do so. Why? Because, if it wasn't for our sponsors, we could not afford run a web site of this capacity. It costs money to host and run the largest online reefing community in the world. Do you expect us to pay this with our own pocket? The only thing I can afford to give is my time, and I give it for free. So do the rest of the staff here at RC, including the ones responding to this thread. We do not pocket a dime for doing this, it is completely and entirely a volunteer effort. We dedicate time away from our jobs, family, and friends to keep RC clean, friendly, fun, and keep it on track with our goal of being the #1 online resource for reef hobbyists.

If people shill our members, then the free information our site provides is compromised. Think about how this community would feel if when you asked advice on which skimmer to purchase, the people responding had a commercial interest in which skimmer you buy. Furthermore, if people avoid sponsorship fees and use the forums to promote and market themselves, then what incentive does a sponsor have to continue to pay sponsorship fees? And then consider further, if we didn't have sponsors, how do you expect us to pay for the bandwidth and webservers that have the capacity to handle this site?

Please think about it objectively. Do you really think certain users should be allowed to repeatedly break the rules that all members of RC are expected to adhere by? And if you dislike these rules, do you really think it would benefit the board long-term to let commercial posts litter this board over time?

[Jus Reefin]

Originally posted by Mark

Now if you think there is a conspiracy to protect our sponsors, I'll be happy to confess that it is in our interest to do so. Why? Because, if it wasn't for our sponsors, we could not afford run a web site of this capacity. It costs money to host and run the largest online reefing community in the world. Do you expect us to pay this with our own pocket? The only thing I can afford to give is my time, and I give it for free. So do the rest of the staff here at RC, including the ones responding to this thread. We do not pocket a dime for doing this, it is completely and entirely a volunteer effort. We dedicate time away from our jobs, family, and friends to keep RC clean, friendly, fun, and keep it on track with our goal of being the #1 online resource for reef hobbyists.

Thank You Mark for understanding what I was trying to say. That's the only point I was trying to make. Whether it's a bad thing or a good thing if we want to have RC we have to deal with it like it or not.

[F35-Joint Strike Fighter]

Beerguy, could I have a beer from you?

Thanks!

[beerguy]

Not without dinner and a movie.

[billsreef]

Originally posted by Jus Reefin
The bottom line is those rules are "ENFORCED" now due to the need for Sponsorship to keep RC up and running.

Actually those rules predate RC having any sponsorship at all. They have also been enforced since those early days of no sponsorship. So enforcement is nothing new. The primary, and originally only, reason for the no commercial posting rule is simply to keep RC a commercial free informational resource for all of you. Now due to growth of RC and need for more and bigger and faster servers, software and bandwith, we need sponsors in order to keep this a free resource. Hence, keeping commercial posting off the board in order to protect the sponsors is a secondary reason. But it is only a secondary reason. Even sponsors are not allowed to make commercial posts. Same rules for all, just that sponsors pay for a banner add and some a forum for product support.

[shane 1111]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by beerguy
Shane, within the context of this thread, the prices on LPS corals recently, I'm pretty sure that you could infer a meaning from my statement.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

beerguy
i still dont get it can you explane

[beerguy]

It's been explained a couple of times in the thread shane.

Originally posted by Anemone
I agree, but what Beerguy said about "price bubble" is the unfortunate truth. More than few picture posters appear out of nowhere as soon as a "hot coral" surfaces. They weren't posting pictures of that coral before it became a hot coral, but all of a sudden they are "sharing" pictures everywhere (oh yeah, and selling frags). It's happened in zoas and SPS, and now it's happening in LPS. When we clamp down, we shut out some real hobbyists who were posting these same corals before they became "hot," but unfortunately they are also selling them, and to be fair and consistent they can't post their pictures until the situation has stabilized either. It's just part of the cycle we go through.

Kevin

[Jus Reefin]

Shane I will help you out since no one else wants to.

What he is trying to refer to is the SUDDEN increase in price and availability of some LPS corals. At least that is my view on that comment. Hope that helps ya!

[shane 1111]

thanks

[brahm]

Originally posted by beerguy
[B]<i>This thread has been moved to the current forum.</i>



I don't think that I understand your statement or how it applies.

Reef Central is a VERY large board. Bandwidth and hosting needs are significant. Sponsors incur most of those costs. Sponsorship doesn't allow you to sell product on RC, it gives you a banner ad and your own forum (at higher levels). If we allow anyone who feels like it to do commercial posting it significantly lowers the value proposition to those sponsors. They stop sponsoring RC, you start seeing server busy or unavailable messages, everyone looses.

I think your incorrect in that, I think the fact that RC is the largest board and has 100,000+ members, will keep the sponsers paying what you demand regardless! They need you more then you need them.

[brahm]

Originally posted by Anemone
Come on!







These are supposed to be viewed as "the mods are good guys?"

Listen, mane may have been a "good guy," but he and a few of the zoanthid retailers are the prime reason we have the rules we have (and that we have to enforce them). Some people recognize no rules at all when there's money to be made. Unfortunately, enforcing the rules rigidly (as we are forced to do by the commerce-oriented crowd) impacts some folks who are on the "good" side of the line. We know that and regret it. But the moment we allow the line to shift we have either a whole slew of posts from "undercover" retailers or a whole slew of complaints from folks who have been on the receiving end of warnings in the past.

Many folks complain long and loud about how unfair and restrictive the policies are, and how they we are "ruining" the forums, but they are also the first to report others. We (mods and staff) walk a very fine line every day and try to enforce RC's rules fairly and impartially.

And what do we hear?




Ah, nothing like a nice slam to end a post. For my response, see above.

Kevin

...Chris isn't/wasn't a dealer.

[beerguy]

Brahm you obviously have all the answers, why don't you tell us what really happened?

[brahm]

Originally posted by Anemone
The problem is that the first questions is generally, "ooh, how do I get a frag?"

If there are no identifying features and the picture is not poted by the owner, then the first question would be, "who has this coral?"

Followed by, "how long have you had it?," "how fast does it grow?," "how big are the polyps?," "what lighting is it under?," has it changed color at all?," and finally "how do I get a frag/"

It's that last question that drives too many people to post pictures. They know they will get that question, and that is exactly what they want (and the reason for the picture post in the first place).

FWIW,
Kevin

..trading, selling captive frags vs purchasing wholesale, and selling large volume corals for a profit (as you means of business and income) online to TOTALY diffrent things. I think alot gets lost here, and the distinction between the to is not there.. I think it's a set back to the hobby for people with common intrests, not to be able to use RC to trade in threads of COMMON intrest, (or if you don't have something to trade purchase) frags from OTHER fellow PEERS and members of this board. It's a GREAT way to promote captive breeding, instead of tha alternative... (conestly buying newly aquired wild pieces) It's a real shame the policys don't allow for a distinction between this. Look @ RandyO for example (sorry to bring you up) He was selling Captive BRED Lord frags in the selling forum for some time.. These aren't wild pieces he just hacked up the week before these are FAST growing corals he has been growing for Years and was kind enough to share with the rest of us, and he was asked not to post them anymore and deemed a commerical business.. which is hardly the case I guy sell 2-3 diffrent frags growin in his basement. .is NOT a commerical business.

[brahm]

Originally posted by beerguy
Brahm you obviously have all the answers, why don't you tell us what really happened?

Chris had a site up because he was trying to get some good deals on some stuff from germany, and he has a hot head haha, HE doesn't have an Active Online business. show me "Chris's Coral Expensanze site?" or links to his plethera of on going ebay auctions, selling one or two of your corals on ebay doesn't make you a business. Instead of being condensending why don't you tell us.

[Anemone]

Originally posted by brahm
...Chris isn't/wasn't a dealer.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/rcsmilies/frech049.gif

[brahm]

Originally posted by beerguy
Sure, and I appreciate that.

The best way to get pictures out would be to buy some frags, grown them out in your tank and share your success with us. That's really what we're about. It's a shame that we've had so many folks trying to take advantage of that goal, but it's the price that we pay for our size.

Cheers

...how would we find out about the frags to buy...if people can't post pictures...