adding clorine to a tank?

[boxfishpooalot]

Well Paul b(reef central user) adds bleach or somthing? What is it and does it have any benefits to the tank? I think its chlorine?

He says it adds "fresh" Ions to the tank....


Also, why does saltwater have a cleaning effect on our skin? Is it the bleach in the water?salt?

Tia box.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Adding bleach (ClO-) is somewhat like adding ozone. It is presumably added to degrade organics. The problem is that it is not as easy to prevent it from also oxidizing organisms. Ozone can be used in a reactor and passed over carbon before it gets tot he tank. One could theoretically use bleach the same way, but it isn't as readily dosed slowly, etc.

I'm not sure that salt water has any more cleaning effect than does fresh water.

[boxfishpooalot]

thanks on that bleach information. Saltwaters got bleach in it already anyway, and seems dangerous to add that without knowing what your doing.

About that cleaning effect, I find that saltwater makes your skin very dry, like it strips your hand of oils. I dont see freshwater do that?

Also, adding bleach(the stuff for laundry) does that contain water? Can you add this daily without any parameters going up to unnatural levels(like chlorine)how about replacing it as evaporation water???lol just asking not going to do that....

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Saltwater should not have much bleach in it. I personally wouldn't add any either. It can and will kill things that are exposed to sufficient amounts. That is why folks dechlorinate tap water.

Bleach is a solution of sodium hypochlorite in water. Once dissolved, it contains Na+ ions and ClO- ions.

Saltwater can strip water from your skin, since it is salty.

[chad508]

i know the pool i run at work uses a type of salt reactor instead of chlorine. and larger pools use the same system. so the cleaning affect is from the salt. salt is one part of chlorine.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There is very little to no hypochlorite in seawater. There is a ton of chloride in seawater, but that is totally different.

The salt that you use in the pool to chlorinate it is probably not sodium chloride. If it is, then it must be reacted with very strong reagents to make it into hypochlorite.

More likely, you use one of these:

http://c3.org/chlorine_knowledge_cen...ATMENT101.html

"Forms of chlorine commonly used in commercial pools. Pools are treated with chlorine gas, sodium hypochlorite (liquid bleach), calcium hypochlorite (granular or tablet), lithium hypochlorite or chlorinated isocyanurates. When any of these compounds contact water, they release hypochlorous acid (HOCl), the active sanitizing agent. Chlorinated isocyanurates, a family of chemical compounds such as sodium dichloroisocyanurate and trichloroisocyanurate, also add cyanuric acid or stabilizer. A stabilizer, which can also be added separately, helps reduce excess loss of chlorine in water due to the ultraviolet rays of the sun."

[thackray]

Randy,

Actually, the latest chlorinating system for swimming pools involves adding sodium chloride to your pool (much less concentrated than seawater). The pool water is run through a reactor where an electric current is passed through the water and hypochlorite is formed. I suppose there is some electrolysis of the water and the freed oxygen combines with the chloride molecule perhaps in the presence of a catalyst.

Phil

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok,that makes sense. Thanks.

Seawater would not have any significant hypochlorite in it, however, unless you ran it through that sort of reactor.

[Justjoe]

Originally posted by boxfishpooalot
Well Paul b(reef central user) adds bleach or somthing? What is it and does it have any benefits to the tank? I think its chlorine?
He says it adds "fresh" Ions to the tank....
Also, why does saltwater have a cleaning effect on our skin? Is it the bleach in the water?salt?

Tia box.

Hey Randy,
Another clarification on the bleach. I pretty sure this Paul uses natural sea water and bleaches it in holding vats, lets it dissipate or neutralizes it prior to using the salt water in his tanks, I'm pretty sure he is not adding any bleach to his active systems.
Joe

[boxfishpooalot]

Originally posted by Justjoe
Hey Randy,
Another clarification on the bleach. I pretty sure this Paul uses natural sea water and bleaches it in holding vats, lets it dissipate or neutralizes it prior to using the salt water in his tanks, I'm pretty sure he is not adding any bleach to his active systems.
Joe

No no, he is because I remember him saying that he once killed his fish from adding bleach with some fabric gaurd or somthing in it by accident. So now he tests a fish in a cup or somthing on new bleach he buys that hes unsure of

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, Paul, explain yourself!

[Boomer]

Adding chlorine bleach to an aquarium is pretty stupid idea IMHO for obvious reasons. I might add that some swimming pool additive are bromine/hypobromite based and do not give off that irritating smell and irritant (chlorine gas)that makes the eyes burn.

[thackray]

Hi Boomer!

The offensive odor and eye irritation associated with swimming pools comes from chloramines not chlorine. I maintain several pools and as long as the combined chlorine (chloramines) is low or zero there is no chlorine smell or eye irritation.

From the poolwizard.net
“Pool water problem - combined chlorine (chloramines)
Chloramines are the result of insufficient free chlorine and usually result in a strong chlorine odor in and around the swimming pool. Chloramines are formed as a product of nitrogen and active chlorine (hypochlorous acid - HOCl). The nitrogen is most commonly introduced into the pool water as ammonia in the form of sweat and (unfortunately) urine.

Associated problems

Chloramines (combined chlorine) are poor sanitizers and have a gaseous tendency. The presence of chloramines (and dichloramines/ trichloramines in particular) cause the following physical symptoms:
• red, burning eyes;
• burning sensation in nose, throat and lungs;
• dry, itchy skin and dry hair;
• breathing difficulty leading to "swimmers' asthma" particularly in young children. “

Chloramines are broken up in the presence of high chlorine levels – a process known as “shocking the pool�

The bromide systems are mostly used in Spas because of the high temperatures and high body count to water volume ratios.

Phil

[Paul B]

Hello Randy, OK here is the story, DON'T add chlorine bleach to your tank. I don't do that and I never did. Just Joe is correct, I add it (sometimes) to natural water when it has red tide in it or I am not sure as to it's purity. It makes the water much better BUT, then you have to remove the chlorine before you put it in your tank. I did kill most of my fish by using Clorox that was not regular Clorox because whatever they put in it does not disapate over time and when I put it in my reef after neutralizing the chlorine most of the animals died in seconds. The corals were not affected too much. I don't advocate using Bleach even though I use it because if not administered correctly, you will lose animals. If you feel that you want to experiment or if you want to clear up a tank of disease or paracites I can tell you how to save the water and make it better than it was before but there is a danger to this if you don't know what you are doing and I do not want to be responsible for killing someone's fish. By the way, I did not invent this, it was Robert Straughn considered by many (including myself) to be the Father of salt water fish keeping. He wrote "The Salt water aquarium in the home" and also invented the undergravel filter which I still use.
Paul

[mbbuna]

could this be effective in removing Protozoa from a reef tank?
im currently going thru a protozoan infestation with my clams.the so call Pinched mantle,just looking into all options.if so would I have to remove all fish?feel free to PM or e-mail me thanks Chris

[Paul B]

It would remove protozoa as well as any other living thing including bacteria. The tank would be as a newly set up tank having to go through a new cycle.
Paul

[mbbuna]

that a little more then i want to do right now . any other thoughts?

[Paul B]

No more thoughts except maybe ozone. Diatom filtration will also remove protozoa but only the ones that go into the filter.
Sorry.
Paul

[mbbuna]

thanks.ive been dealing with this for 6 months now so any input helps.

[thackray]

mbbuna,

Have protozoa been established as the cause of pinched mantel? Any links would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Phil

[mbbuna]

yes .search Pinched Mantle in the clam forum and there are a few links to other forums in the threads that will bring up.there is a treatment using Metrodazonal(sp.) but it hasent worked for me.

[Boomer]

Hi Phil

Yes I know all that and was just being short I have done allot of reading on chlorine chemistry. I also should not of said swimming pools but Hot-Tubs for bormine and it got a little to pricey for my friends Hot-Tub vs the "chlorine " route. I have played with chorine gas in EOD. And then there is that old "house-wife" thing do not mix ammonia with bleach, due the production of chlorine gas (actually chloramine gas).

Chloramines are broken up in the presence of high chlorine levels – a process known as “shocking the pool�

In chlorine chemistry this is called "Breakpoint", which occurs at a molar value of 1.5: - 2:2.

What species of chlorine you get in water is pretty much pH dependent. Chloramine species are function of pH, and the ratio of Cl2 added to ammonia. I have posted here a few times a number of tech. links on chlorine/chloramines in the past


Type in chlorine or chloramine in the search
http://www.gewater.com/

Why on gods earth would you be treating swimming pools
I should talking I was treating hot-tubs and spa' s many years ago


I forgot, where is it, LED, you know what I'm talking about

[thackray]

Boomer,

Yes I know all that and was just being short.

I knew that you knew that and just wanted to make sure you knew that I knew that.

Why on gods earth would you be treating swimming pools?

I have an extended family and everybody has a swimming pool. I’m the “pool dude�.


I forgot, where is it, LED, you know what I'm talking about.

Thanks for asking. I got busy with summer stuff. Let’s revisit it in the fall.

Phil

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for the info, Paul

[Boomer]

Phil

Let’s revisit it in the fall

OK