micro/acan instant death

ServantSoldier · #1 12/04/2007, 09:44 PM

Several weeks ago I added my first acan polyp to my system. It hasn't grown from its original, however, it is fluffy and healthy. Recently, I picked up a couple new acans from a local reefer. These acans receded and vanished overnight. After that, picked up a micro from an online dealer.. it too has been receding since purchase. I keep SPS with no problems, all of which are growing like weeds.. as well as my zoas and palys. Alk= 11.3, calc=440, pro reef salinity=1.025, aquactinics tx5 5x54 lighting over a 90gal.. any recommendations on testing what might be off on my system for such a rapid death? My nutrients are low, but that shouldn't cause death overnight. Anyone experience such a thing with insight?

atzak · #2 12/04/2007, 10:05 PM

how about a fish list

znut Reefer · #3 12/04/2007, 10:14 PM

Check for crabs also. The hairy ones are bad.

ServantSoldier · #4 12/04/2007, 10:29 PM

no crabs other than ~10 blue leg hermits, been checking at night for pests..
1 small niger trigger and 2 clowns for fish
1 peppermint and 1 cleaner shrimp

znut Reefer · #5 12/04/2007, 10:37 PM

I was doing the same thing. I knew something had to be in my tank eating on some of my chalices and a Blasto. I finally found a small hairy crab hiding in a rock a chalice was mounted to.

I also checked at night, but never saw the culpit until I searched the frags.

jjmcat · #6 12/05/2007, 01:00 AM

Where are you placeing the acans in the tank?You also might see what kind of lighting the person had them under Pryor to being in your system.

All Delight · #7 12/05/2007, 01:04 AM

When you say the polyps receed and die. How many polyps are we talking about? 2 or 3 polyps? or like 10 polyps? I've this happen to me before with small frags. 2 or 3 polyps frags gone in one day. All that was left was skeleton. The it started to happen to some of the mini colonies that had like 10 polyps. But a few polyps would receed within a day or two. The entire colony could be gone in 3 or 4 days.

After speaking to a few local reefers one guy suggested that I dip the coral in Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure for 10 to 30 mins at any signs of tissue recession. What do you know it stopped the recession. So I took out all my acans and micros and dip them all. I don't know what caused it or what, but it stopped.

Seriously I lost probably 7 nice frags. Micros that I was paying $40 to $100 per polyp! Gone. Mini colonies worth hundreds gone. I'd say in maybe a period of 6 weeks I lost probably $2K worth of micros and lords. Those were the only corals affected.

Hope that helps you out.

jasper24 · #8 12/05/2007, 08:29 AM

My acans do not like / require a lot of light. I have Australian, Indo, and Non Indo. If I put them in too much light they start receding.

JenDub · #9 12/05/2007, 01:49 PM

Magnesium level?

The alk seems a bit high for lps, also keeping lps in a tank where sps flourish is usually not the best idea due to their varying needs. (like keeping penguins with parrots hehe)

All Delight has the right idea; all of my new lps get a dip in Seachem's coral disinfectant upon arrival, also they get a full strength treatment if they show any signs of recession.

ServantSoldier · #10 12/05/2007, 09:31 PM

all my corals I introduce go through a TMPCC dip. Mag is at 1170. my tank doesn't eat up the alk.. stays that high with water changes. all i add is calc.

JenDub · #11 12/05/2007, 10:01 PM

You could boost that mag to 1300

How did they die? Was it a peel or a dissolving of the tissue?

You may have a nibbling fish or mystery crab

grisha · #12 12/05/2007, 11:50 PM

pepermint shrimp ate it

Hogfish77 · #13 12/06/2007, 04:29 AM

Looks like I'm not the only one who's had this horrible problem. All Delight, mines went away just like you described. Heck I'm very cautious about buying lords anytime soon....the fear of them dying away helplessly just tears me up knowing how much they cost.

ServantSoldier · #14 12/06/2007, 11:03 AM

the tissue just dissolves away. slowly the skeleton starts showing.. receding continues until they are gone. certainly not something eating them. water quality problem. :-( I just don't know what to check for. I know the mag is low.. but that isn't going to whither them away overnight. I have a few of them still alive, but fading fast.. frustrating!! No more acans in my near future.

All Delight · #15 12/06/2007, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ServantSoldier
the tissue just dissolves away. slowly the skeleton starts showing.. receding continues until they are gone. certainly not something eating them. water quality problem. :-( I just don't know what to check for. I know the mag is low.. but that isn't going to whither them away overnight. I have a few of them still alive, but fading fast.. frustrating!! No more acans in my near future.

Exactly what happened to me.

Use Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure, NOW!!

What you describe is what I went through. No one could tell me what it was, water problems this, pest eating that, etc. My water always tested ok. Maybe not the best readings but certainly not anything that would warrant what was happening. One night I was talking to Mchava and he suggested I try the Topic Marin solution. Of course I didn't do it until I lost a couple more pieces. I was completely frustrated and annoyed. Had no where to turn. I talked to many experienced reefers, mostly vendors and farmers that I acquired these pieces from. No one had an answer. So I said what else do I have to lose. I figured why not spend $15 or $20 on the Tropic and see if it saves me thousands, and it did.

Since then I've had that same thing happen maybe twice, but at the first signs or irritation or recession I let them sit in the diluted solution for 30-45 mins and put them back. For a few days they don't look tip top but they bounce back.

Hope you turn your situation around soon.

JenDub · #16 12/06/2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ServantSoldier
the tissue just dissolves away. slowly the skeleton starts showing.. receding continues until they are gone. certainly not something eating them. water quality problem. :-( I just don't know what to check for. I know the mag is low.. but that isn't going to whither them away overnight. I have a few of them still alive, but fading fast.. frustrating!! No more acans in my near future.

Were the pieces shipped or picked up? Wild or captive?

Cold weather damage sounds similar to what you are describing. Low mag will typically cause the flesh to peel off the skeleton...

There's no way to rule out if something is picking at them until you isolate the frags in a breeder box or under a cut-off 2liter bottle top. Peppermint shrimp definitely eat lps...

JenDub · #17 12/06/2007, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by All Delight
Exactly what happened to me.

Use Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure, NOW!!

Yep, if you even suspect they might start receeding it's time to start soaking them...if you see white skeleton it's time to do a full strength treatment on the white areas & bordering tissue

One or two extra days can make all the different

ServantSoldier · #18 12/06/2007, 04:53 PM

I pulled the 2 receding pieces out and did a TMPCC dip full strength. 2 of the lost pieces came from a local reefer.. the other was shipped overnight. All were captive. Wish me luck!

Hogfish77 · #19 12/14/2007, 03:14 AM

Any updates Servant?

victor escobar · #20 12/14/2007, 06:39 AM

look for nudis I had the same experience with blastos and I found tiny nudis underneeth

vessxpress1 · #21 12/14/2007, 12:03 PM

I have experienced the same problem and have lost nice frags, even after TMPCC dips. I have had two acan lord and two echinata frags dissolve away. The echinatas had been in the tank for 6 months and all of a sudden went down hill. One of the lord frags was 180 bucks. I looked at some of the tissue under a microscope and there were definately some type of tiny creatures that could not be seen by the naked eye, moving around in the dead tissue and eating it. I'm not the only one to have seen these things. Were they scavengers? Or were they killing it? I have no idea, but I'm sure they weren't helping it.

The best thing you can possibly do is try to keep your water as clean as possible and try not to damage the tissue at all, in order to prevent initial infections. Newly cut frags are at high risk IMO.

Besides this, I also had peppermint shrimp. I got rid of them and I'll never buy another one. They are extremely hard on coral and can be destructive if they sense food at all. I target fed one of my nices acans with shrimp one evening and in the morning, the whole center was torn out and it was white. Only on the polyp I fed. I'm positive the peppermint shrimp tore it up to get to the piece of shrimp. It's since grown back like new.

I also have a small RBTA that I fed. It ate the food. Food was gone. I came by later and found a peppermint shrimp with it's claws down the RBTA's throat ripping the food back out!! That was the final straw. They were even strong enough to rip food away from my serpent stars, right out of their mouths.

And the peppermint's can't be appeased either. You can give them a piece of food initially and it doesn't matter. If they find or sense more food, they will steal it. Which is why I won't keep them anymore.

Since getting rid of them, I haven't had any sudden polyp damage.

ServantSoldier · #22 12/15/2007, 09:24 PM

well, I'm pretty sure I've found the problem. There were some inaccuracies in testing the alk. I found the alk had actually been 6.1.. while my testing was 11.3. I had been dosing adv. calc to try to bring it down the whole time. :-/ I've brought my alk and calc back to 10.3 and 420 over the past couple days. I've seen some browning of my sps, but the remnants of the LPS seems to be fluffier. I believe a couple frags are too far gone to deal with the added stress of bringing the alk back up, but only time will tell.

Ludwigia73 · #23 12/16/2007, 05:42 PM

does anyone else here think a niger trigger in a reef tank is a bad idea???

ServantSoldier · #24 12/17/2007, 09:09 AM

I've never had any issues with mine, nor have any of my friends with them in the hobby. Niger's are common to reef, however, most tend to recommend them with caution.

spinninmidwater · #25 12/20/2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vessxpress1
Besides this, I also had peppermint shrimp. I got rid of them and I'll never buy another one. They are extremely hard on coral and can be destructive if they sense food at all. I target fed one of my nices acans with shrimp one evening and in the morning, the whole center was torn out and it was white. Only on the polyp I fed. I'm positive the peppermint shrimp tore it up to get to the piece of shrimp. It's since grown back like new.

I also have a small RBTA that I fed. It ate the food. Food was gone. I came by later and found a peppermint shrimp with it's claws down the RBTA's throat ripping the food back out!! That was the final straw. They were even strong enough to rip food away from my serpent stars, right out of their mouths.

And the peppermint's can't be appeased either. You can give them a piece of food initially and it doesn't matter. If they find or sense more food, they will steal it.

i have the exact same thing happening to me only with the "popular fave" Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp. i hate it so much after watching what it does!