Azno3 - Page 6

Boomer · #**126** 10/09/2007, 01:25 PM

iantoh

and the history of RC and many other boards shows that more good than harm has been achieved with water changes.

I agree

Carlo

I know what you are driving at and have no real issue with that. And that was a nice well thought out post.

If you guys decide to start another thread, not my cup of tea however, you should get Mescom involed in it or can PM him to help. He can dump more info than one can read in a year

Another would be MCsaxmaster.

jdieck · #**127** 10/09/2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boomer
...you should get Mescom involed in it or can PM him to help. He can dump more info than one can read in a year Another would be MCsaxmaster.

Me too... me too...

Nah... Too busy to play ping pong

cayars · #**128** 10/09/2007, 02:17 PM

Honestly I'm not really sure why you got the bleachy smell. I could take a pretty good guess what it was but it would only be speculation.

I don't think anyone is going to be able to ever say with complete certainty what happened because the AZ-NO3 product causes a complex process of events to happen in the tank when it's added. What happens in one tank won't always be what happens in another tank.

The AZ-NO3 is adding a type of sugar to the tank to feed enzymes and bacteria. These processes react differently in everyone's tank but usually end up reducing the nitrates and phosphates. You could have had a bacteria bloom which contributed to your problem.

Typically especially with the older versions of the product you would sometimes get the bacteria bloom (might not be obvious) which caused the ORP to go lower then rise up a lot with another dose of the product. This could cause heavy oxidation to take place in the tank. Similar to high levels of ozone injection.

One possible explanation I can think of is the with high oxidation levels some of the bromide in your tank may have been converted to bromine. Bromine has a bleachy smell to it.

But this is only speculation on my part.

Boomer, what do you think? Does this sound possible to you? Any thoughts?

Carlo

Boomer · #**129** 10/09/2007, 03:11 PM

Carlo

Bromine really does not smell and why it is used in some pools and spa's as it has no or little smell. But it cost more. However in chlorine, if we want to look at that, it produces chloramine gases. This is what you really smell in pools, not chlorine gas. A nice fresh swimming pool, dosed properly with bleach, does not smell of bleach. It is once the organics start to get into the pool, skin, pee etc. that have Amines in them, which react/combine with the chlorine to produce chloramine gas. There are also Bromamines but are much harder to produce.

With that all said I think his issue was the dechlor and the production of sulfate gases. In the presence of lots of bacteria plankton, etc. sulfate is picked up much more instead of Molybdate and gets converted to dimethylsulfate and dechlor's are sulfate based. This has been shown a least in plankton studies an why the water stinks if the Molybdate is low and sulfate normal or the Molybdate is normal but the sulfate is high and why some skimmers stink also.

Oop's

So I don't get in trouble with my old forum freind

I meant Mesocosm and he is even online

Boomer · #**130** 10/09/2007, 03:30 PM

edit

Missed the part where it already smelled but still could be it. Why the dechlor took away the smell, clueless.

You will not get to bromine in the water unless there is an oxidizer. So the chloride or bromide would have to get oxidized to bromine or chlorine. And I don't see it. It would have to be on the order of crap loads of ozone.

cayars · #**131** 10/09/2007, 04:37 PM

I took a stab at it.

I have no clue either. I do know that there was problems with I think version 3 of AZ-NO3 where the ORP could sky rocket for a period of time and then would drop back down.

I tried to think of some of the halides that would get affected by high ORP levels and bromide came to mind. Since the high ORP levels can "convert" the bromide to bromine I thought maybe.

I could have swore earlier that bromine had the smell of bleach to it. I did a search and found this a few minutes ago.

CDC - Center for Desease Control:
http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/bromine/basics/facts.asp
"Bromine is a naturally occurring element that is a liquid at room temperature. It has a brownish-red color with a bleach-like odor, and it dissolves in water"

So I hypothesized what could have taken place. It still sound reasonable to me but who knows? That's the best "thought/guess" I can come up on the smell.

Carlo

siskiou · #**132** 10/09/2007, 05:55 PM

Thanks for checking into the bleach smell for me.
I'll probably never find out what exactly happened chemically, but my corals (just the softies) didn't like it, and neither did the longspine urchin.
He lost a lot of spines, but recovered completely after the water changes.
I ran no ozone on the tank.

Boomer · #**133** 10/09/2007, 06:35 PM

Carlo

Since the high ORP levels can "convert" the bromide to bromine I thought maybe.

You can only get these with strong oxidizers. High ORP in reef tank means nothing unless it is brought about by strong oxidizers. See Randy's article on ORP.

Here is what is said about AZ-NO3

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_Aquari...dditives_azno3

Look at the bottom. They would not be telling you to watch your ORP and get ready to add BioOxygen tablets, which increase O2. These are probably perborate or think OxyClean. They are saying AZ NO3 will really consume O2. Now if siskiou added this to his tank it is a new game

siskiou

Well it is to late now but a DPD kit would have told all

siskiou · #**134** 10/09/2007, 06:51 PM

DPD?
Sorry, am from Germany (living in the US) and haven't come across that term yet.

And no, I didn't add BioOxygen tablets.

mesocosm · #**135** 10/09/2007, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by siskiou
DPD? ...

Diethylphenylene diamine ... a testing reagent (typically in tablet form) used to measure chlorine or bromine.

HTH

cayars · #**136** 10/09/2007, 11:43 PM

Yea I agree Boomer on the ORP and what the bottle says. In my earlier usage of the product that is exactly what I saw also (drop in ORP). I myself never saw a rise in ORP on my system.

However, some people have reported that they see a huge ORP increase that takes place for a short period of time after dosing the product. This came about after version 3 of the product. I can't help but wonder if they added a small amount of oxidizer to the product to combat the known low O2 issues in ver 1 & 2? I wonder how many people that use this product have an ORP probe?

On the front of the bottle it does say "All Natural Oxidation / Reduction Enzyme Catalyst" What would the "oxidation" part be? I get the 2nd part "reduction enzyme catalyst".

Still just a lot of speculation with no proof of anything however.

Carlo

melev · #**137** 10/10/2007, 12:32 AM

Let me know when it is safe to post in my thread again.

Billybeau1 · #**138** 10/10/2007, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by melev
Let me know when it is safe to post in my thread again.

Can you spell........... H.I.J.A.C.K..................

You had a nice one going there Marc. Maybe you can start another one.

melev · #**139** 10/10/2007, 01:49 AM

I'll just measure my NO3 tomorrow and slip it in between the other conversations.

Billybeau1 · #**140** 10/10/2007, 02:28 AM

You are a good sport my friend.

jdieck · #**141** 10/10/2007, 03:10 AM

Well Marc, did you expected we would just be sitting down in your living room in silence waiting for your nitrates to go down? We got to do something .... Why not just chat?

cayars · #**142** 10/10/2007, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdieck
Well Marc, did you expected we would just be sitting down in your living room in silence waiting for your nitrates to go down? We got to do something .... Why not just chat?

Sounds good to me. Gotta keep it bumped up on the list.

Quote:

Originally posted by melev
Let me know when it is safe to post in my thread again.

OK Your Turn

Carlo

Boomer · #**143** 10/10/2007, 11:16 AM

Well Marc, did you expected we would just be sitting down in your living room in silence waiting for your nitrates to go down? We got to do something .... Why not just chat?

I'm suprised jd he has not been here every day. We allknow how Marc likes to bump up his post count

Maybe he was told to slow down or he would be banned