responsible shrimp for reef?

DocApoc · #1 10/09/2006, 04:17 PM

I'm starting up a 24g reef tank, and I'm trying to keep captive bred livestock wherever possible. Honestly my concern about collected livestock is more "environmental paranoia" than based on any real knowledge. (please if anyone has links to actual substantiated reports on the environmental impact of collecting various reef creatures, please pass them on.)

I've found captive bred fish that satisfy me (clowns and blennies), but my wife really wants to have a shrimp or two in the tank. There don't appear to be any captive raised shimp that are particularly interesting. Pepermint shrimp can be had from Tampa Bay Saltwater (not captive bred, but close enough for me), but they are pretty tiny.

What I'd really like to keep is a "skunk" cleaner shrimp, a fire shrimp, or a banded coral shrimp.

Does anyone know either:

1. if one or more of these shrimp are caught in a sustainable and low-impact way?

2. If there is a more responsible alternative?

Thanks in advance for any help.

edwing206 · #2 10/09/2006, 04:26 PM

go seattle, i live in shoreline like 10 minutes north of seattle. there are only like 4 people i've seen on RC that are from seattle

teen · #3 10/19/2006, 06:19 PM

i see a lot of cleaner shrimp that are really small, even the one i bought was really small so im guessing there either tank bred or the eggs are caught in the wild then raised in a tank.

Gundo5000 · #4 11/10/2006, 02:21 AM

Most of the ones we get in Kansas are wild. I really havent heard of much captive breeding of shrimp because their value is so low.

I could be wrong though.

Cuervo · #5 11/10/2006, 09:19 AM

I was looking in the breeders area for info on cleaner shrimp. Apparently they are extremely difficult to breed in captivity. AFAIK the only shrimp breed in captivity on a commercial level are peppermints.

In the case of cleaner shrimp, I believe they are very common, and are not harvested commercially, so I doubt that the numbers taken for the aquarium industry are doing any damage to the wild population.

Sk8r · #6 11/10/2006, 09:53 AM

Coralbanded can be a pita about attacking other tank occupants. Peps are easy if you keep your salinity stable.

Aliie · #7 11/13/2006, 11:59 AM

I have a pair of cleaners that produce every so often. I used to keep track of it but I don't anymore. My clown fish just eats them. They have hundred of offspring so I can't imagine that tank raised aren't available. I just haven't bothered to make a tank for them. The LFS has traded the six or so I managed to retrieve from the tank or other stuff. My fire shrimp doesn't have a mate so I don't know about those.

DocApoc · #8 11/13/2006, 12:47 PM

I've looked into it a bit more, and apparently cleaner shrimp are extremely hard to captive breed. Mating them is easy, and even feeding the larva has been successful, but apparenly no-one can get the planktonic stage to "settle" and metamorphize into an adult form. And no-one is quite sure why not.

Peppermint shrimp are for some reason an exception, and they have been reared in captivity, but I can't find anyone selling them. Since the wild caught ones only go for 10 bucks at the LFS, I guess there isn't enough incetive to to it.

As for cleaner shrimp "being not harvested commercially", I would disagree. Certainly taking them from the seafloor and selling them to a LFS is commerce.

the real question, that I've not been able to answer, is if these animals are endangered by such commerce. There is a stunning lack of real information about this kind of topic in the hobby. I would expect reef keepers to be more sensitive to the health of wild tropical reefs than the average person, yet there is little to no talk of such topics in hobby forums, and even less hard information.

This weekend I asked the guy at my LFS "what of your stock is captive propogated" and he didn't even know. I didn't think any of it was. And this is in Seattle, rabid environmentalist central.

apayne · #9 11/13/2006, 02:09 PM

Aliee,

Quote:

I have a pair of cleaners that produce every so often. I used to keep track of it but I don't anymore. My clown fish just eats them. They have hundred of offspring so I can't imagine that tank raised aren't available. I just haven't bothered to make a tank for them. The LFS has traded the six or so I managed to retrieve from the tank or other stuff. My fire shrimp doesn't have a mate so I don't know about those.

Sounds like you could go into business, or just bag some up and send them my way. haha

Cuervo · #10 11/13/2006, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DocApoc
I've looked into it a bit more, and apparently cleaner shrimp are extremely hard to captive breed. Mating them is easy, and even feeding the larva has been successful, but apparenly no-one can get the planktonic stage to "settle" and metamorphize into an adult form. And no-one is quite sure why not.

Peppermint shrimp are for some reason an exception, and they have been reared in captivity, but I can't find anyone selling them. Since the wild caught ones only go for 10 bucks at the LFS, I guess there isn't enough incetive to to it.

As for cleaner shrimp "being not harvested commercially", I would disagree. Certainly taking them from the seafloor and selling them to a LFS is commerce.

the real question, that I've not been able to answer, is if these animals are endangered by such commerce. There is a stunning lack of real information about this kind of topic in the hobby. I would expect reef keepers to be more sensitive to the health of wild tropical reefs than the average person, yet there is little to no talk of such topics in hobby forums, and even less hard information.

This weekend I asked the guy at my LFS "what of your stock is captive propogated" and he didn't even know. I didn't think any of it was. And this is in Seattle, rabid environmentalist central.

Harvesting for the aquarium trade pales in comparison to harvesting in the commercial sense.. you know the big boats with the nets.

FWIW, here is a link to the state of Fla regulations on catching shrimp:
http://myfwc.com/marine/recreational/recshrimp.htm

It would appear the limit is currently a 5 gallon bucket per day. Season is closed for certain counties during 2 months out of the year.

With the above regulations in mind, it would seem that shrimp are currently not endangered.

We do have skunk cleaner shrimp here in Fla, there's a local diver who brings them into the LFS on a regular basis.

They're very common, which may be the reason there is not alot of effort going into captive breeding of them.

Aliie · #11 11/14/2006, 06:52 AM

I like watching the little wigglers pulse thru the water. The first time I saw them I thought I had bugs. The next time I saw them I watched the shrimp disperse them..it was cool.

I should get them thier own tank I supose so I could find out if I could get them to grow up. Maybe I start on that after the first of the year.

blackheart · #12 11/15/2006, 10:11 AM

just get a male and female skunk breed them and throw the babies in the ocean that way you are replacing what you took. They are easy to breed but for two adults you might want a bigger tank than a 24g

good luck

spawner · #13 11/15/2006, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cuervo
Harvesting for the aquarium trade pales in comparison to harvesting in the commercial sense.. you know the big boats with the nets.

FWIW, here is a link to the state of Fla regulations on catching shrimp:
http://myfwc.com/marine/recreational/recshrimp.htm

It would appear the limit is currently a 5 gallon bucket per day. Season is closed for certain counties during 2 months out of the year.

With the above regulations in mind, it would seem that shrimp are currently not endangered.

We do have skunk cleaner shrimp here in Fla, there's a local diver who brings them into the LFS on a regular basis.

They're very common, which may be the reason there is not alot of effort going into captive breeding of them.

You kidding right?? Those regulations are for bait/food shrimp. Cleaner shrimp are extremely rear in divable depths in Florida. I snag almost all of them up from that LFS. Most of the ones you are seeing are a Pacific species.

zuzecawi · #14 12/05/2006, 03:29 PM

blackheart, you're joking right?
Releasing ANYTHING from your aquarium into the wild is both highly unethical and extremely dangerous. Most aquariums hold organisms from radically different portions of the world, and the majority of those organisms are microscopic. We have NO clue what damage could be caused by introducing foreign organisms into a different environment. Google or dogpile Gypsy Moths if you need more proof/explanation.

Reefeross · #15 12/05/2006, 09:33 PM

Stay away from Coral Banded shrimp, everywhere says they are compatible with other inverts, but from personal experience they can be nasty little s.o.b.'s.

gotboostedvr6 · #16 12/14/2006, 08:40 AM

cleaners are nice

GreshamH · #17 12/14/2006, 11:10 AM

Justa little FYI for you all in this thread. Andy AKA Spawner is this and other forums resident shrimp expert. He knows his stuff like no one else and is doing big things with little creatures

fishboyy · #18 12/14/2006, 10:52 PM

cleaners are soo friendly and nice get a cleaner