Don't understand the cost of Florida Ric's?

blide · #1 11/08/2007, 02:52 PM

Don't understand the cost of Florida Ric's?
I often wondered why florida ricordia's cost so much... Most of the time at LFS and online the price is $20 a polyp! I know they have great colors and are fun to collect, but really they're a mushroom and are not rare at all. When you really think about most corals (SPS/LPS) are shipped in from oversea's and have the added cost, but florida ricordia are in the US! I've seen lots of people post pic's of their diving trips off the US coast and there seems to be an abundant amount of them in the ocean, so I'm still confused why these things cost so dang much.

I've noticed numerous sellers on ebay selling them by the 10's and 20's, so you have to think there's a black market going on behind the scenes of normal retail or there's some big secret to propagating them at home (If anyone knows this secret please share!)

Not trying to cause a rucus just trying to understand... Would love to hear other peoples opinion's.

Bill

chrissreef · #2 11/08/2007, 03:01 PM

memory is hazy but this is something like how it went. I forget what year it was (15 yrs ago now ish?) but there was a ban on all florida live rock selling - basically overharvesting and the reefs were feeling it in many ways. Ricordias were on the rock so I think some pple tried to get away with selling the rocks with the ricordias... (i think that's how it went anyway) so then there was a total ban on all ricordias. I think rics were also being over harvested to some extant.

I'm not sure what happened but I started seeing rics on the market again a few years ago - maybe CITES lifted some regulation? obviously you see many loose rics going around - this is due to the rock still being illegal. When you see a rock with rics on it - I dunno if it's illegal or if there is some number of #'s allowed to be sold by each seller or something.

anyone else have comments?

10" Red Devil · #3 11/08/2007, 03:05 PM

I don't think it is just rics either. I think this is true with a lot of corals. Unfortunately ALL local fish stores are a rip off. Unfortunately they have to be to stay in business because there is a high overhead in that business. I was in my lfs the other day and they had some sad looking yellow fiji leathers that they wanted $99 for a measly 2.5" specimen! It is funny how common acans are now, yet every fish store that gets in the sadest color morphs which usually consist of a real dull sage green and dull red wants $200 for a little 2-3" brick. The thing about the online retailers is they are a little more fair but you have to want to buy 40 corals to get a real discount because of the shipping cost. Of course you can always try to go in on a group deal with some local reefers (good-luck). Of course buying 10 corals and sticking them in the same tank at the same time is really a bad practice too. I have found the only way to get true deals in this hobby or fair prices is to wait for your local frag swaps. Either that or pay-up and shut-up unfortunately. They have us over a barrel. This hobby is riddled with crooked *** people too unfortunately.

TacoKing · #4 11/08/2007, 03:11 PM

If I remember correctly a diver in FL can only collect 20 polyps per day and each must be individual and not connected to any substrate. That's the same with zoos and others.. only can collect 20 polyps per day with no substrate.

acrodave · #5 11/08/2007, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TacoKing
If I remember correctly a diver in FL can only collect 20 polyps per day and each must be individual and not connected to any substrate. That's the same with zoos and others.. only can collect 20 polyps per day with no substrate.

all that is true and ricordia's have to be the most slow growing mushroom ever

johnny1 · #6 11/08/2007, 03:51 PM

I wish there were some kind of test you could take and the more you know about keeping these and other corals alive the cheaper they would be for you to buy.

blide · #7 11/08/2007, 05:06 PM

Found this article...

MONROE COUNTY
A local fisherman pleaded guilty to a federal Lacey Act violation of illegally harvesting and selling Ricordia florida, a type of coral, in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary. The cost to remediate the damage caused by removing the coral from the seabed will exceed $78,000. At sentencing, the defendant will be ordered to forfeit his 1969, 34’ Morgan sailing vessel. Investigator David McDaniel, National Marine Fisheries Agent Kenneth Blackburn, U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service, National Oceanographic Administration Legal Office, and Immigration and Customs Enforcement investigated the case.

Here's another from the US FL Attorney...
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/fls/PressR...070323-02.html

So how do all these Online vendors get mass amounts of ricordea's? If you can't harvest them from the ocean there must be some secret to mass producing them in propagation...

acrodave · #8 11/08/2007, 05:08 PM

You can harvet them but you have to have the right permit and be in the right place not in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary

Wrench · #9 11/08/2007, 05:18 PM

The only rock that may be collected must be aquacultured. In addition, the only corals that may be collected must be attatched to this aquacultured live rock.

greenbean36191 · #10 11/08/2007, 10:11 PM

The only hard corals that may be collected must be attached to cultured rock. With a fishing permit, many soft corals and gorgonians are legal and in those cases it's often legal to take a small amount of rock they're attached too. Ricordia are common in the Keys, but most of the places they're abundant are protected, so they can't be collected there. They're expensive because there aren't a whole lot of places outside of protected waters where they're abundant and the boundaries down there are so confusing a lot of people don't even bother trying to collect anything.

m2434 · #11 11/08/2007, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blide
at LFS and online the price is $20 a polyp!

I'm stuck in Boston... I'd kill for $20 a polyp

edit - at an LFS.

Kreeger1 · #12 11/08/2007, 10:22 PM

Back in the day you could get florida ricordia rock for 7.99 a pound with multiple colors. Good old days gas was probably a buck then lol

burton14e7 · #13 11/08/2007, 11:49 PM

About 3 years ago I was buying ric's at LFS for 39.99 for about 6 on a rock. Same LFS this year is 79.99 per polyp.

ACBlinky · #14 11/09/2007, 01:46 AM

I feel exceptionally lucky right now. I bought a small rock with 6 Florida rics on it from the LFS 'scratch and dent' bin about a year ago - they were completely bleached, but otherwise healthy looking and I paid $10 knowing that with some TLC their chances were good. It took months and months, but eventually they coloured back up and now they're a lovely (if not stunning) combination of orange and purple. They appear to be growing new mouths, but they're taking their sweet time - these guys really do grow slowly

H.a.Z · #15 11/09/2007, 01:57 AM

Here they are more than 100$ per polyp.

Kalied20 · #16 11/09/2007, 02:56 AM

Well I fell pretty luck then. I got about 12 or so in my 90 gallon reef. I think I traded for most of them and paid no cash. They are now beginning to split and grow more after 7 months of nothing. And now I have about 20.

Quote:

Originally posted by H.a.Z
Here they are more than 100$ per polyp.

Bret61081 · #17 11/09/2007, 03:27 AM

Most of the Florida Ricordia coming in these days come from Haiti. The cost of shipping it and getting it through customs is the exensive part. Even when transhipping corals from places like Jacarta and Bali, for shipping alone for a box with maybe 10 corals, cost over 200$. close to half of the $$ that we pay for the fish and coarls is to cover shipping. Most LFS arent out to rip you off...but they too do need to make a profit. You have to remember when a fish dies, they have to be able to recoop that somehow. Somtimes some prices go up more then others. When a Restaurant changes 14$ for a pasta dish do we say they are ripping us off? No...we go there b/c we want to not b/c we have to! Same with a LFS!

bj32482 · #18 11/09/2007, 07:47 AM

http://sealifeinc.net/catalog/index....db666381641444

blide · #19 11/09/2007, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bret61081
Most of the Florida Ricordia coming in these days come from Haiti. The cost of shipping it and getting it through customs is the exensive part. Even when transhipping corals from places like Jacarta and Bali, for shipping alone for a box with maybe 10 corals, cost over 200$. close to half of the $$ that we pay for the fish and coarls is to cover shipping. Most LFS arent out to rip you off...but they too do need to make a profit. You have to remember when a fish dies, they have to be able to recoop that somehow. Somtimes some prices go up more then others. When a Restaurant changes 14$ for a pasta dish do we say they are ripping us off? No...we go there b/c we want to not b/c we have to! Same with a LFS!

Even still a florida/carribean ricordia really has no weight and is extremely hardy. So if they're shipped in from somewhere I'm sure the packaging is just small bags with no water, so they have to be very light (you could package a 100 of them in a single ziplock bag and weight less than a pound).

And by all means I'm not trying to discredit a LFS by their pricing because I know they have to make money to keep the lights on, but I'm trying to understand the cost and inflation of a coral that's in the "medium" range of collecting and really has no reason to have a high price.

seapug · #20 11/09/2007, 09:53 AM

It's an issue of supply/demand. As others have mentioned, there are many restrictions on their collection right now. Any that come into the market are aquacultured (labor/equipment intensive) or come from Haiti. If you don't already know, Haiti is a kinda sketchy place so running a business there isn't so easy. Couple these factors with the current high demand for them and you end up with high prices.

People who think they've gotten good deals on them probably didn't get R. florida-- most you find in stores are really misidentified R. Yuma from the Pacific, which aren't too hard to come by but usually aren't as colorful as the R. Florida. Green, Brown, and sometimes Orange are about the only colors you usually find them in-- rarely the incredible multi-hued orange, blues, and greens of R. Florida that people want.

snarfe · #21 11/09/2007, 10:30 AM

I'd just say try and find a different LFS. Here blue and green rics go for about 12.99 to 15.99. They normally have orange rics for 18.99. Now yumas are more expensive but you know how that goes. i wouldn't say that they are ripping you off. If you can find a LFS that doesn't have an insane mark up then ultimately you can save a little money there, but only if your like buying small or not spending over a hundred or so. Your not gonna get free shipping from most places unless you spend atleast 250. But yeah there's just such a HUGE overhead for a LFS.

spawner · #22 11/12/2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by seapug
It's an issue of supply/demand. As others have mentioned, there are many restrictions on their collection right now. Any that come into the market are aquacultured (labor/equipment intensive) or come from Haiti. If you don't already know, Haiti is a kinda sketchy place so running a business there isn't so easy. Couple these factors with the current high demand for them and you end up with high prices.

People who think they've gotten good deals on them probably didn't get R. florida-- most you find in stores are really misidentified R. Yuma from the Pacific, which aren't too hard to come by but usually aren't as colorful as the R. Florida. Green, Brown, and sometimes Orange are about the only colors you usually find them in-- rarely the incredible multi-hued orange, blues, and greens of R. Florida that people want.

Almost all of the wild polyps you get come from Florida; very few are cultured. Haiti doesn't have the color or the quantity people want and thus supplies far fewer than those from Florida.

Southern Boy · #23 11/12/2007, 08:38 PM

I get them on average from 8.99-14.99 a piece.But my LFS has great deals and charge nothing like the others I've stoped at.But they do import there own and don't pay the middle man.

blide · #24 11/13/2007, 09:19 AM

I wish there was a vendor that could explain the process they use to buy them. There's just something off about ricordia pricing due to the wide array costs. I mean you can go to one website and buy nice ric's for $15 each and then the next site there $50 each. I talked to my LFS a couple weeks ago about getting some ric's and they told me they can't find a supplier that's cheap enough for them to even sell them.

tcmfish · #25 11/13/2007, 09:54 AM

Well I feel lucky down in Florida the LFS gets them in for 10-12 per polyp depending on color and you can get ones that look like they are about to slpit same price. Its cool to see their ric tanks when they get them in and the tank is covered in neon orange and green and blue.