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  #1  
Old 10/16/2004, 08:13 PM
RayLovesNemos RayLovesNemos is offline
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Location: San Ramon,CA
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Cleaner Wrasse = no ich?

LFS recommended to get a cleaner wrasse for my tank cause it worked for him and i have ich. it is in the QT with all the other fish and looks like its cleaning but is this truely get rid of ich?
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20 long
40lb figi LR
2 O.Clowns
1 Purp firefish
Green Clown Goby
130w PC lights
  #2  
Old 10/16/2004, 08:29 PM
whilb whilb is offline
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Location: Bolingbrook, Illinois
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the only thing that truely gets rid of ich is a fishless tank fo 6 weeks and quarentine for 6 weeks I have had good luck with garlic extract with the food AND cleaner wrasses + keep your water up to specs
  #3  
Old 10/16/2004, 09:44 PM
Johnnyfishkiller Johnnyfishkiller is offline
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We should avoid buying cleaner wrasses simply for the impact that collection of these fish has on the reef. The simple collection of cleaner wrasses from the reef reduces the overall fish population.

Here's an excerpt from this page: http://www.ornamental-fish-int.org/d...11495&gid=4838

A recent study which analysed the causal link between cleaner fish presence/absence and reef fish diversity at Ras Mohammed, Egypt, demonstrated that Labroides dimidiatus have a significant effect on local reef fish diversity with a more rapid increase in diversity being recorded when cleaner fish are added to individual reef patches [46]. Indeed, the removal of Labroides dimidiatus had no effects on fish abundance within the first few weeks, but a significant decline in fish diversity was recorded after a 4-20 month time period. On the other hand, the immigration or addition of Labroides dimidiatus individuals to reef patches led to an immediate, i.e. within 2-4 weeks, significant increase in fish diversity.

In addition to playing a key role in reef health - and thus the removal of Labroides dimidiatus in large quantities for the aquarium trade potentially having negative impacts on reef diversity - aquarists are advised to avoid this species as it tends to fare poorly in aquarium conditions unless kept with a large community of fishes, and is not likely to accept substitute foods [47].

******

The other problem is that cleaner wrasses are obligate eaters. In other words, they live almost entirely on what they can clean off other fish. Once our other fish have a greatly reduced population of parasites for them to feed on, they starve to death. Much like a mandarin in too small of a tank.

A much better option for a cleaner is a cleaner shrimp. They clean, and they eat food.
  #4  
Old 10/16/2004, 09:52 PM
Dave A Dave A is offline
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Studies have shown that Cleaner Wrasses are not effective at all in curing ich.

Dave
  #5  
Old 10/16/2004, 10:19 PM
krowleey krowleey is offline
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Location: Redding, CA
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nobody asked if they should buy the thing or if buying one is raping the reefs.....
  #6  
Old 10/16/2004, 10:38 PM
Johnnyfishkiller Johnnyfishkiller is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by krowleey
nobody asked if they should buy the thing or if buying one is raping the reefs.....
Ok Krowleey, how's this?

Not only is the cleaner wrasse not going to cure your ich, but it's going to die.

Is that more to your liking?
  #7  
Old 10/16/2004, 10:49 PM
krowleey krowleey is offline
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Location: Redding, CA
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that's much better, at least you can stand to read that.
  #8  
Old 10/16/2004, 10:56 PM
RayLovesNemos RayLovesNemos is offline
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haha yeah thanks all yeah...but he ate my small fish formula?? proves anything? hope he is good to go
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20 long
40lb figi LR
2 O.Clowns
1 Purp firefish
Green Clown Goby
130w PC lights
  #9  
Old 10/16/2004, 11:11 PM
Johnnyfishkiller Johnnyfishkiller is offline
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If he ate prepared food, I would be suspicious. He could be a bluestripe fangblenny.

See the bottom of this page: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/sabertoothblens.htm

The easiest way is to check the angle of the mouth. The bad guys have an underslung mouth. Think shark. They like to chew holes in your fish while imitating a cleaner fish.
  #10  
Old 10/16/2004, 11:18 PM
Johnnyfishkiller Johnnyfishkiller is offline
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Here's a good look at a false cleaners mouth.

http://www.amonline.net.au/fishes/fi...ataeniatus.htm
  #11  
Old 10/16/2004, 11:52 PM
Dubbin1 Dubbin1 is offline
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I just read a study lastnight that said that they never even found ich in the stomach of a cleaner wrasse. I am battling a ich problem right now and my cleaner wrasse dont help a bit. Face it, if you leave it up to a cleaner wrasse to cure ich, your fish will die.
  #12  
Old 10/17/2004, 12:14 AM
RayLovesNemos RayLovesNemos is offline
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im using rid ich right not so if the wrasse fails its ok just any way i can get rid of ich i will try. planning on getting garlic 2morrow. and my wrasse if definetly unlike that false one im prety much sure it is a true one it resembles the ones that i have searched for on liveaquaria and fish magazines.My fish are acting weird my tank perameters are fine just that im using medication my eel is fine and so is my blennie but my flame angel and pair of perc clowns have lost much of their appetite they breath rapidly and are kinda moving in slow motion. they still eat but it takes like double the time for them to get to it.Also my clowns and firefish love to lay against a rock or on the bottom of the tank. is this normal??


thanks for the help and if any ideas pop up about ich i would love to know.
__________________
20 long
40lb figi LR
2 O.Clowns
1 Purp firefish
Green Clown Goby
130w PC lights
  #13  
Old 10/17/2004, 02:45 AM
bbuckmaster bbuckmaster is offline
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Roger that on boycotting cleaner wrasses. I have never heard of a long term success in keeping them. I have never heard of them curing a disease problem in a tank. Just not a good solution for disease in the aquarium besides I read somewhere they really are not that plentiful on the reef so the collection impact could be bad over time for the whole of the reef
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  #14  
Old 10/17/2004, 09:40 AM
Johnnyfishkiller Johnnyfishkiller is offline
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I think I found the cause of your ich problem. It was at the bottom of each of your posts all along. You have a 20 gallon tank stuffed with 40 lbs of LR, and 8 fish. You probably only have 10 gallons of water in there. Your tank would be lucky to support 4 fish. Add to that the stress of a snowflake eel prowling around at night. Even if he doesn't eat any of the fish, believe me they're worried about it and have no where to go to get away. Get rid of some fish would be a good start.
  #15  
Old 10/17/2004, 09:52 AM
Dave A Dave A is offline
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RayLovesNemos, all the symptoms your fish are having right now point to ich, and if they are breathing hard and sitting on the bottom then death is probably not far off.

Now please don't take this the wrong way but I never understand when I read about people trying everything under the sun except the proven methods to totally cure inch, ie; hyposalinity or copper. I prefer hypo. You need to bite the bullet and treat ich using methods that have been proven. With the time spent trying garlic, reef safe ich cures that are also ich safe, cleaner fish and or shrimp, you could be well on your way to a total cure. Here are a few links to get you started.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...marineich.html

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...osalinity.html

Good luck

Dave
  #16  
Old 10/17/2004, 01:25 PM
RayLovesNemos RayLovesNemos is offline
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right now i am moving into hypo salinity yes i am aware that i have too many fish....tooo many trips to this fish shop. but when this ich problem is over i will be taking about 4 of them to my marine bio class to be in a reef tank if they make it :/

and also my eel is very very very small i can barely see his head sometimes. he is scared of many of the fish and i dont think he is the problem. but mabe i am wrong and he is o so fierce at night. i will be sad to lose my clowns. but many of my scaless fish are acting normal should i move them back to my tank?? my tank is now ich free and perameters are good.(started anew in a new tank)
__________________
20 long
40lb figi LR
2 O.Clowns
1 Purp firefish
Green Clown Goby
130w PC lights
  #17  
Old 10/17/2004, 03:37 PM
Johnnyfishkiller Johnnyfishkiller is offline
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I have a snowflake that ate 3 damsels when he was about the size of a pencil. Eels don't swallow their prey whole, they rip it apart.
  #18  
Old 10/17/2004, 11:56 PM
RayLovesNemos RayLovesNemos is offline
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from all i know the one i have is smaller than a pensil for like a used pencil. all my fish are faster and bigger so i hope that is an advantage thanks for all the help my ich problem is over and i escaped with one casualty (R.I.P flame angel) my first casualty since i started the tank
__________________
20 long
40lb figi LR
2 O.Clowns
1 Purp firefish
Green Clown Goby
130w PC lights
 

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