A question for the advanced SPs keepers

[carib]

I think the problem here is the -salinity-1.026/TEMP.-74^ its off balance.You should bring salinity down to 1.023 & temp.76^ I think the algea will thrive under curent condition(po4 can add to this) also ca/480 your kh must be 11/12+ range.Bringing down CA/MG/KH-420/1300/7=8 will be benefitial(calcification)

[reefsahoy]

what is your water flow like?

[conorwynne]

Could be flow, but also could be phosphate.
Personally I think you tank is lovely.

But I HATE bryopsis, only because it killed my last tank, that and the month long holiday with subsequent power cut.. oops.

My new tank has no more algae issues, even though I used rocks which were in the last tank. Bryopsis grew initailly, then with phosban, high mag and high flow it all just disintegrated.

My lighting sucks too, 10K halide (light blocked by dirty glass on it which needs dismanteling to clean), no fuge, crap skimmer, no DSB, not even a sump!

Needless to say the colours dont "pop", but they are not bad either, normal for a 10K I think. I use phosban and carbon and c is changed every week.

I really hope Santy bring me a camera for Christmas. It will force me to arrange my rocks properly and glue those frags sitting on the BB :-)

Regards
Conor.

[JPMagyar]

Eye popping coloration the Holy Grail for SPS freaks like us . . . I sympathize my brutha


Certainly no lack of advice out there, and for sure lots of great tanks here on RC to chose from for mimicry all using slightly different lights, dosing, feeding, etc, BUT I can't help wanting to help you with your quest so here's my 2 cents (and that's all its probably worth, but what the heck )

1) small amount of Rowaphos and GAC in a reactor
2) 10k bulb with actinic supplementation
3) shorter MH photo period like 6 to 8 hours
4) try B-Ionic it seems to me to be like crack cocaine for SPS
5) raise your rockwork higher; bring the purple and pink SPS closer to the surface
6) try some type of variable flow in the tank
7) bring the temp up above 76
8) bring the alk down to 7 to 9 dKh
9) bring the Mg down to 1350 to 1450 ppm
10) find corals that are widely successful and colorful like the Stylophora or the Tort


There's a lot on that list, and its largely personal preference, plus I know its hard to sort through all the input, but like I said just trying to help

Best of luck, and be sure to keep us posted on whatever you try as well as what you observe!




Joe[

[trueblackpercula]

reefsahoy

what is your water flow like?

I have a vortex power head on 24/7 Also have a iwaki pump that is plumed thru a OM squirt that looks like this. It rotates thru each port and circulates the entire tank> I think I have plenty of flow but I gould be wrong. Here is a detailed discription of myy pump.
Model: MD30RLXT*
Inlet(MPT)/Outlet(MPT): 1"/1"
Flow Rate @ 4` Head: 960 GPH
Max Head ft: 13.5

JPMagyar

1) small amount of Rowaphos and GAC in a reactor

I want to test the water first before doing this and I am awaitng the empty bottles from aquariumwatertesting.com I do not want to strip the water and cuase more damage then good, But I have a feeling that this is the problem (phosphates)

2) 10k bulb with actinic supplementation

I had a 10k 400 watt ushio and did not like the color at all. Yes it was very bright but it gave a yellow color with 150watts of actinics. So that way i added a 400 watt 20k XM Sps look much better but still not that matalic color that I am looking for.

3) shorter MH photo period like 6 to 8 hours

Why ?

4) try B-Ionic it seems to me to be like crack cocaine for SPS

I was alos thinking about this and was looking to do that after the 4 gallons that I just made up run Out I will be switching. But from what I have read there really is no Difference, But at this point I guess it will not hurt.

5) raise your rockwork higher; bring the purple and pink SPS closer to the surface

Thanks but I have everything where I want it and the light is penetrating all the way to the bottom. Also like I have mentioned everything that is high light demand is more then Mid way to the bulbs.

6) try some type of variable flow in the tank

See picture and tell me if this is enough variable flow

7) bring the temp up above 76

I have it 76 to 78 deg

8) bring the alk down to 7 to 9 dKh

I do not think thats the problem from what I see from all the TOTM there tanks are just as high or higher. But yes i have lowered my dosing some to bring down the CAL/ALK 450/9

9) bring the Mg down to 1350 to 1450 ppm

\
whats wrong with my Magnisium level?

10) find corals that are widely successful and colorful like the Stylophora or the Tort

I am also starting to think that this could be very true. If a SPS does not have that great looking color inthe local shop or on line then maybe its not a real jewl. Some say that all corals should color up but I think that not all have that great looking color that most think they should. As for the tort Wish I could find a CAL/ORG tort and yes stylophora is also on my list.

[Grunt007]

FWIW I went from B-Ionic to the DIY two part- NO difference at all IME. Unless your making the DIY 2part with sh**ty water, their really shouldn't be much if any difference.
I also feel that the super nice tanks START w/ super nice corals (or at least a large majority). The LFS pieces I have never color up like good pieces ie ORA, etc.

[rogergolf66]

I have better growth with the 2 part then I did with b-ionic, and I now save a boat load of $ when using 100ml/day :-)

[Grunt007]

EDIT

[trueblackpercula]

172.8 ML each channel a day is what I add.
Michael

[JPMagyar]

1) You have macro algae and no nitrates so you have a phosphate problem, why wait. (see TOTM, Oregon Reef, and Greenwich Aquaria)


2) Try a 10k XM they run a little more white in color than Ushio and many of the best SPS tanks run 10k ( see TOTM, Oregon Reef, and Greenwich Aquaria)

3) How Much Light?! Analyses of Selected Shallow Water Invertebrates' Light Requirements

By Dana Riddle

4) Your coral





my coral





5) My experience says this is a HUGE factor. 2 identical corals at differing heights in my tank will have dramatically different appearances even when I was using 1000 watt bulbs.

6) My mistake your flow is excellent.

7) & 9)

Originally posted by trueblackpercula

Magnesium 1500 this is high . . .


Temperature 74 degrees only because it is winter and the heater just can’t keep it higher

10) I would be happy to deliver both a Cali and an Oregon Tort for free just to see how they would fair in your tank. I think it would be an excellent test for RC junkies like me.

Now I should add that I thought your reply was a little curt so I hope you will forgive my curtness if I have misinterpreted your response. In any case my offer is sincere as far as the Torts go I would be happy to deliver frags of both my Oregon Tort and my Cali Tort for FREE:









Like I said "Best of Luck" and keep us posted; I was just offering my thoughts since you asked for input, and as I keep saying here on RC there are countless ways to "skin a cat"


Joe

[trueblackpercula]

JPMagyar
Thanks for all the advice
No not at all I am frustrated by what the heck could be wrong. But i see you too have a Killer tank. My purple garf bonsia Has gotten better but I am sure it will never be as nice as yours. Are you running a 10K XM on your tank? I know it gives off more PAR then mine but after the 10 K ushio I did not want to waste any more cash on a bulb that would not give me what i was looking for. I must say I in no way intended to offend you with my response. It's that a few of the tank of the months and some tanks from italy have been keeping there ALK/CALCIUM/magnisium on the high side. So i only did what was right and raised everything in hopes my SPS would be as colorful.

Have you seen this link thread?
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...ghlight=papone

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...04#post9506904

As for the frags I think it would be a cool experiment but I would need to give you something in return or I would feel guilty I would be more then glade to share a Frag of my Purple with purple pyolp austera if you like. Or at least pay for the shipping. In any case I have been thinking about your advice and reading everything I can and it all points to phosphates.

Do you have GFO that you have used that you like and whats a good starting point? By the way great looking tank please post a full tank shot so that I can vote for you for totm

Thanks for everything

Michael
P.S. PM sent JPMagyar

[Canarygirl]

OMG, Joe,

you have awesome corals.


let me know if you want to test any of those out in my tank.

(JK)

[trueblackpercula]

Ok I have taken the plung and given in to everybodys advice. I picked up phospate remover from the local store today. It was the two little fish GFO version $30 bUCKS for a small thing.Two Little Fishies Phosban Phosphate Removal Media 150 g . What i did was added only 50 g to my system as a starting point. If the corals continue to get lighter and the algea does not die is it safe to say that it is something else? I trust the judgement of everyones advice, telling me that it is phospates. How long before i see something happen? will the algea start to turn white if it is working and how do I know when its time to change it out.

Michael

[rogergolf66]

as far as the color. I don't think you will see the color bet much better till new growth, but Im not sure.

[trueblackpercula]

So the SPs will never have that bright color only the new growth? I do not think that the case , I was thinking more if the PO3 is removed the colors would get more intense. And if they got lighter then I when to heavy or it was never PO3 to start with. In any case i will post results in a few days,

Michael

[rogergolf66]

no don't mis understand me. new growth wether it is in size or color. it will take that much time to intensify the color. it will not be instand though. don't take this the wrong way but you seem a little impatient for this hobby. It will take time it will not happen over night.

[trueblackpercula]

Not in patient at all just wanting to know what signs i should look for
thanks for the help...........I NEED IT!!!!!

Michael

[rogergolf66]

just be patient. work case situation if you have no phosphates them the media will last a long time because nothing to remove.

[stony_corals]

Michael,

I think your tank looks good. I agree with Travis' comments. It is doubtful that N and P would get so low that no algae would grow, if it were, your corals wouldn't grow The other factor in colorization that few mention is that the coral needs to have the ability to be a certain color due to the pigments, not every coral is going to be super colorful....

Looks good to me

[trueblackpercula]

Well I must ask as I would like to know if Phospate remove has anything to with making the water clearer? I Added 50g yesterday and today the tank water looks crystal clear could this be?

Michael

[stony_corals]

Yes, it'll remove organics (aka the yellowing stuff)

[Flint&Eric]

sounds like it's working.

it also removes arsenic, which is a shame because i really like that stuff

[mano1192]

I had the same issue, how to get my tank to the next level. A very respected reefer told me to start runing ROWAphos, I have now for 4 months and it makes a big difference in colors. Just make sure you change it out like clockwork once u get the schedule down. Start slow like your doing and build your way up, your corals will love you for it

[trueblackpercula]

Ok I have tested the water again today to see if everything was going ok. I tested the DKH/ALK way to high 9.6 3.43 clacium was 600 and the magnisium level was 1650. I think I have been over dosing so I have lowered the two part dosing pump to 144 ml a day and see where that goes. So far the phosphate remover is not affecting anything but the SPs still look the same pale. Only time will tell and water is going out for testing this week.
Michael

[|233F gee|<]

Magnesium 1500 this is high because I have been adding Tech m to kill of the bryopsis

I think like a few others have suggested this is the problem, high phosphates causing the bryopsis and limiting your corals coloration. I have found that coloration takes time, your bonsai is not a large colony but a small one, it may take some time to get it up to its true color, keeping Phos low is integral.

I also think that 10k bulbs are not the best for coloration, I have found the 12-14k spectrum is best for both growth and coloration, but again your having fluctuations in both calc, alk, and mag. One thing guys who have amazing coloration and growth share in common is consistency in water parameters. It needs to be constant, in a constant enviroment like the ocean, thats when their true potential can be measured.

Coral placement imho only affects the corals when their not getting sufficient light, if they are placed high up they will only pale for some time and then adjust, but again thats been my experience, many people differ.

I wish you the best of luck, yes the Holy Grail is obtainable but do you have the patience and fortitude to achieve this?

this is the closest I ever got to the Holy Grail


sincerely,
David