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  #51  
Old 02/14/2007, 01:20 PM
first-chevalier first-chevalier is offline
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So that was a coral? It came on the rock so while I would like to have it stay if it died out or was eaten I can take solice in the fact that I didn't actually 'kill it' myself, lol.

On the topic of cycling, we've had the tank up since Sunday and I've only registerd amonia once, but a 30% water change eliminated that now for two days. Never registered nitrites. Have had Nitrates at 12.5 mg/l for the last two days, and PH is 8.0.

I'm not trying to rush things but how long should I want this to go on for before I am comfortable with adding a fish. My plan is adding a firefish or yellow watchman as the next step, along with more clean up like sand stirrers, when the time is right. The question is when is the time right, lol?
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But how can it be a closed system if there's a big opening in the back of my hood......
  #52  
Old 02/14/2007, 01:36 PM
Travis L. Stevens Travis L. Stevens is offline
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I looked back at your thread, and I was thinking of someone else's tank. They had some Brown Button Polyps that hitched in. That looks like Aiptasia to me. Hopefully it is dead.

I would wait until you have a completed cycle before adding a cleanup crew. You will most likely experience more ammonia as things die off and decompose. Eventually you'll get registered nitrite and nitrate as well. I would hold off getting any live stock until you haven't read Ammonia or Nitrites for a minimum of one week, no more than 10-20 ppm Nitrates (preferably 0), and no water changes while cycling. The water changes only dilutes the problem and causes less bacteria to grow initially.
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  #53  
Old 02/14/2007, 01:49 PM
first-chevalier first-chevalier is offline
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If that was aptasia (which is what exacxtly?) and I don't want it, should I pluck/scrape the other two or three I already have?

My Fish Guy already sold me five snails, two crabs, and an emerald crab because he said my cycle would only last a week becuase all his rock is cured. I took him at his word so I've already got those guys in my tank, oh and a queen conch too.
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But how can it be a closed system if there's a big opening in the back of my hood......
  #54  
Old 02/14/2007, 02:21 PM
Travis L. Stevens Travis L. Stevens is offline
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If you have two or three sporadically placed on the rocks, there is little doubt in my mind that they are Aiptasia Anemones. These grow extremely fast and multiply even faster. Whatever you do, don't scrape them. It will only cause them to spread. They also retreat quickly when aggitated. I would

Ah, if the rock is cured, I would still give it a good week of good parameters before adding anything in the tank. In fact, if the rock was truly cured, you would have never registered ammonia or nitrates in the system already. Now, a few things can die off on the drive home that could cause minutes amounts of ammonia, but if you went straight home with this stuff and placed it in the tank, you shouldn't have any registerable ammonia. Also, you might want to reconsider the Queen Conch in such a small tank.

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  #55  
Old 02/14/2007, 02:29 PM
JerseyWendy JerseyWendy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Travis L. Stevens
Pictures are worth a 1000 words....

Durso Standpipe: You can also place the 90º on the inside of the tank and the "T" on the outside.


Stockman Standpipe
Oh-oooh. I'm confused. In the Durso, is there an opening below the 90 degrees? Is the top open? Is there vinyl tubing attached to the top like in the Stockman Standpipe? What is the tubing for?

Arent' Dursos' installed for quietness?

Sorry about all those questions.

---
Wendy
---
  #56  
Old 02/14/2007, 02:33 PM
Travis L. Stevens Travis L. Stevens is offline
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On the Durso, is there an opening below the 90º? Yes
Is the top open? Is there vinyl tubing attached to the top like in the Stockman Standpipe? What is the tubing for? No, not really. It is a PVC Cap with a little hole drilled in it to let just a little air flow. The Vinyl tubing is used to quite it down even more.
Aren't Dursos installed for quiteness? Yes, ma'am.

And don't be sorry for the questions. Someone else may have the same ones, but don't want to ask
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  #57  
Old 02/14/2007, 02:57 PM
first-chevalier first-chevalier is offline
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Yeah, I'm aware the queen can get big. Mine is about 3/4 to an inch right now. My Fish Guy said when the time came I could trade in if I wanted, and right now she's nearly the coolest thing running around in there. Very alien looking when she's grazing around on the rocks.
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But how can it be a closed system if there's a big opening in the back of my hood......
  #58  
Old 02/14/2007, 03:00 PM
JerseyWendy JerseyWendy is offline
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Thanks Travis.

After posting my questions I realized I had yet another "A Duh" moment. Of course the lower portion on the 90 degrees is open because that's where the water flows down into the sump. (I'm as red as a lobster right now )

Travis, you know that I'm in the planning stages, and here is what I've brooded up so far. Please tell me what you think.

75AGA RR (got it)
30 AGA (will be modified into sump) (got that one, too)

Next I think I'll purchase my future skimmer. Thinking about the Octopus NW200 (unless my LFS offers me their used ASM3).

For lighting I was thinking 6 X 55W PCs (since I'd be comfortable installing them into the hood)

Of course we'll invest into an RO/DI unit (I spent the entire Monday researching them, and then asking my hubby if he'd be comfortable installing one. YES!)

Once I have my skimmer I think I can fiddle with the baffles for the sump, and perhaps familiarize myself with how a skimmer is supposed to work. (Probably will run it with fresh water. ???)

Oh wait, before I run anything I'll have to get a return pump. I was thinking about the Mag 9.5.

How's all that sounding?

---
Wendy
---
  #59  
Old 02/14/2007, 03:07 PM
first-chevalier first-chevalier is offline
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Yeah, for Wendy. The planning and building stage were a lot of fun for me and I'm already trying to figure out how I can plan and do another tank. Maybe a 2.5g nano for work.....
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But how can it be a closed system if there's a big opening in the back of my hood......
  #60  
Old 02/14/2007, 03:08 PM
first-chevalier first-chevalier is offline
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Travis, so how do I get rid of the aptasia if I can't scrape it off? Does something predate these things?
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But how can it be a closed system if there's a big opening in the back of my hood......
  #61  
Old 02/14/2007, 03:52 PM
Travis L. Stevens Travis L. Stevens is offline
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Wendy: That sounds great. Good choice in skimmer in my opinion. I would take a peek over at Melev's website and look through his various sumps and refugiums for some ideas. As far as the lights go, make sure that you get what you want first instead of upgrading later. It'll save you a lot of headache. Decide on what corals you like (if any at all), and then make a lighting decision based off of that. Other than that, I think you sound very solid for a great start.

First-chevalier: Sorry, I meant to post a link - http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=803632
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  #62  
Old 02/14/2007, 05:24 PM
JerseyWendy JerseyWendy is offline
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Travis,

Thanks for the super quick reply. Yes, I'm using Melev's idea to design my sump.

The lighting thing is driving me absolutely crazy. I think I eventually would love to have corals (I know nothing about those...yet).

If I decide to go with T5s, should I opt for a 4 bulb configuration or 6?

What about MH? Would 1 X 250W + some additional PC be a good idea?

I've learned that MHs penetrate the water the furthest, which is necessary for keeping certain corals, correct?

With the lighting I mentioned originally (6 X 55W PC), can I assume I can't add corals because it's not sufficient?

---
Wendy
---

---
Wendy
---
  #63  
Old 02/14/2007, 05:44 PM
Travis L. Stevens Travis L. Stevens is offline
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Quote:
Thanks for the super quick reply. Yes, I'm using Melev's idea to design my sump.
There are lots of other designs, too. The possibilities are limitless

Quote:
The lighting thing is driving me absolutely crazy. I think I eventually would love to have corals (I know nothing about those...yet).
If you're even remotely attracted to them, chances are you will eventually have a reef tank I advise getting as many books, websites, and other references about corals, go through them with a pen and paper, write down all the ones that you like and think look pretty, and then go back and research the individual corals. You'll find that corals are quite tolerant to a wide range of lights. Go with something that will appease them all. If you happen to pick a list of corals that all like high lights, then you can choose to go with something really powerful.

Quote:
If I decide to go with T5s, should I opt for a 4 bulb configuration or 6?
It depends on what you want to keep. Heck, I've seen 75g tanks with 8 T5 bulbs.

Quote:
What about MH? Would 1 X 250W + some additional PC be a good idea?
Once again it depends on what you want to keep. Because of the size tank, you would need two metal halides in order to cover the footprint of the tank. But that is beside the point at hand.

Quote:
I've learned that MHs penetrate the water the furthest, which is necessary for keeping certain corals, correct?
It is necessary for keeping corals at certain depths. For example, let's take a high light Tridacna clam, say T. crocea. With Metal Halides of appropriate strength, you can keep it almost anywhere in the tank. With T5s, you'll most likely be able to keep it anywhere, too (unless you have a really deep tank). With VHO's you're limited to the upper half. With PC's it would have to be at the top. With Normal Output lights, you'll have to have your lights close to the water and the clam close to the surface. As you can see, the intensity of the light plays a large role, and you can see that different types of lights have different intensities.

[quiote]With the lighting I mentioned originally (6 X 55W PC), can I assume I can't add corals because it's not sufficient?[/quote]

Not at all. You can keep a wide range of corals under this lighting. Some are just a little harder than others to keep. I've seen many gorgeous Acropora sp. corals under PC lights grow and do fine, but I'm telling you that it isn't an easy task. Things such as Leathers, Polyps, Zoanthids, Corallimorphians, and a variety of LPS will be fine under PCs with the correct placement.
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  #64  
Old 02/14/2007, 10:16 PM
first-chevalier first-chevalier is offline
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Okay, in case anyone was wondering, Travis is a certifiable genius. I drilled three small holes in the one inch vinyl drain tube right at and just above the water line. The holes line up the length of the pipe and not cross-wise. As soon as the first hole went in the gurgling stopped in my bulkhead and the whole house dropped quiet. HURRAY!!!!

I used three holes becuase the first wasn't high enough and if a surge of water managed to get above that hole the gurgling started and it couldn't recover. HOWEVER, this did serve to point out that water will spit out of this whole so I drilled two more each an inch above the last so that if one got over run there was another to take over. I am quite confident now that the noise issue is resolved AND all the water will remain in the system if there is a surge.

Thanks again Travis chock up another successful modification.

New question.

I'm swapping out my GE 6500 lights for Coral life mini compact 50/50's since I saw the daylight side is at 10k. When I'm done I'll have 80 watts of 10k 50/50 daylight/actinic. NOW What can I keep? Have I entered the world of those nifty and oh so colorful clams yet? LOL
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But how can it be a closed system if there's a big opening in the back of my hood......
  #65  
Old 02/15/2007, 07:19 AM
JerseyWendy JerseyWendy is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by first-chevalier
Okay, in case anyone was wondering, Travis is a certifiable genius....
I totally agree.

You are coming along quite nicely with your setup, first-chevalier.

---
Wendy
---
  #66  
Old 02/15/2007, 09:31 AM
first-chevalier first-chevalier is offline
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Thanks Wendy. I still have zero amonia, zero Nitrite, and about .3 or .4 nitrate. I ran out of amonia test solution so had to go to the LFS for more. Get ready to cringe you veterans.........are you ready..........I was using a tetra test kit

DUH DUMMMMMMmmmmmm

LOL. The Fish Guy cringed when I told him that. He moved me to a section that had a wall of Seachem stuff and pointed to the Marine Basic box. I now use a lab coat and spectacles when I test my water because I feel like such a scientist, lol.

They also suggested, and I willingly bit, on introducing a pepermint shrimp to control the aptasia I seem to have. He did great last night then suddenly disappeared. I couldn't find him anywhere. This morning I found him clinging to my cheeto clump in the refugium. He'd slid down teh drain pipe. I've put a piece of egg crate whre the weirs were but I'm concerned the use of a net to get him back into the DT may have overly stressed him as he's not doing anything but hiding under my overflow. We'll see.
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But how can it be a closed system if there's a big opening in the back of my hood......
  #67  
Old 02/15/2007, 10:30 AM
Travis L. Stevens Travis L. Stevens is offline
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Quote:
I'm swapping out my GE 6500 lights for Coral life mini compact 50/50's since I saw the daylight side is at 10k. When I'm done I'll have 80 watts of 10k 50/50 daylight/actinic. NOW What can I keep? Have I entered the world of those nifty and oh so colorful clams yet? LOL
I'm afraid not. In fact, the power of the 50/50 bulbs is actually less than that of the GE bulbs. Each GE bulb was about 25-35w, right? Now the 50/50's are 20 watts each, but the real usable light is only on half of the bulb. So, essentially you have 40 watts of 10,000K and about 40 watts of Actinic. The Actinic is useful for autotrophic animals, but not a main source of light used to power zooxanthallae algae. About the clams, I wouldn't try one for many reasons. I would wait until you get a larger tank, personally.

Quote:
They also suggested, and I willingly bit, on introducing a pepermint shrimp to control the aptasia I seem to have. He did great last night then suddenly disappeared. I couldn't find him anywhere. This morning I found him clinging to my cheeto clump in the refugium. He'd slid down teh drain pipe. I've put a piece of egg crate whre the weirs were but I'm concerned the use of a net to get him back into the DT may have overly stressed him as he's not doing anything but hiding under my overflow. We'll see.
Pretty typical for a new addition, especially a shrimp. Give it time and he will come out, but watch those water parameters like a hawk. Any major swings in a tank so young could do him over quickly.
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  #68  
Old 02/15/2007, 11:17 AM
JerseyWendy JerseyWendy is offline
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Hi Travis,

I hope it's ok to ask another question about the famous "lighting" subject.

I've been reading about VHOs, and wonder if 4 VHOs (run on 2 separate ballasts on timers for day/nighttime) are a decent option. When I look at all the different bulbs my head begins to spin - I know I have tons more reading to do regarding what lightbulbs to place, and in which order. I'm also aware that IF I go the VHO route I'll need fans and glass or plexisheet over the tank, correct?

Are you ready to shoot me yet, Travis?

---
Wendy
---
  #69  
Old 02/15/2007, 11:42 AM
Paul B Paul B is offline
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I hope Travis says that 4 VHO's are enough light and that you don't need and shouldn't have glass below the VHO lights. You may also not need fans but it is a good Idea with any lights except maybe LEDs.
And don't shoot Wendy
  #70  
Old 02/15/2007, 12:09 PM
first-chevalier first-chevalier is offline
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Okay, you may have convinced me to not swap out all the GE's but only two. My GE's are 26w each so that would give me 72 effective watts of day light with 52 w of 6500, 20w of 10k and 20w of actinic.

Right now I'm testing my water three times a day. Once when I get up somewhere between 6 and 7, when I get home around 5 or 6 PM then before bed around 11 PM. Is that hawkish enough or do I need to teach my wife how to use the kits and have her test around lunch time too?

I know there are probably many of you vets out there chiding me for going to fast I'm just worried about the algae and other unwatned stuff taking over adn ruining things before it has a chance to be ready and teh water parameters aren't reading any of the Amonia, nitrites, or nitrates which is in line with what the Fish Guy said. Now, I know he could just be selling me a bill of goods so I will buy more stuff then blaming me for not doing something when my tank crashes and kills everything. But so far everything he's told me about the stuff he's pointed me to has turned out correct. They were also VERY pleased to see I was actively talking to you guys on RC adn encouraged me to do so I'm tending to learn towards them being trustworthy and looking out for me because when I go into the store and ask questions they aren't shoving the most expensive item in that category at me first. They ask some questions then point to a few things that, so far, have been in the 'more afordable' category. I promise to try to slow down more. I'm going to start a 5.5g nano project on the tank today or tomorrow to try and take my mind off of it and give me something to do. Maybe that will help.
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But how can it be a closed system if there's a big opening in the back of my hood......
  #71  
Old 02/15/2007, 12:30 PM
Travis L. Stevens Travis L. Stevens is offline
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Hi Wendy

Paul B is right. There is very little you can't keep under VHOs. I agree that leaving any glass lids off will be vital with gas exchange and temperature control. But, in a standard canopy, you'll almost certainly need fans with VHO's. They run hotter than T5's, but not nearly as hot as Metal Halides. But, once again, I highly encourage that you sit down with some resources and plan what corals you like. It will save you LOTS of headache (if you don't already have one ) in the long run. I highly recommend reading back through the lighting section; Choosing a Lighting System. It's close to the bottom of the page.
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  #72  
Old 02/15/2007, 12:35 PM
first-chevalier first-chevalier is offline
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I am starting to see little green nodules forming on many of my rocks. I'm also noticing lots of very fine pale or white hairs on one. Are these buble algae and hair algae? And if I shouldn't add more clean up crew to the tank how do you control this until it's time, or is the point that you don't so there is ample food supply for the crew when they get here?
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But how can it be a closed system if there's a big opening in the back of my hood......
  #73  
Old 02/15/2007, 12:51 PM
Travis L. Stevens Travis L. Stevens is offline
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Quote:
Okay, you may have convinced me to not swap out all the GE's but only two. My GE's are 26w each so that would give me 72 effective watts of day light with 52 w of 6500, 20w of 10k and 20w of actinic.
That might be better. That would give a wide range in the color spectrum. Have you checked in to the Quad Flat 50/50 Power Compacts? The bulbs are 17" and fit right over a 10g tank.

Click the picture for more information.

*Note: There are many vendors that sell this bulb. This is neither a plug or a shame of this specific vendor

Quote:
Right now I'm testing my water three times a day. Once when I get up somewhere between 6 and 7, when I get home around 5 or 6 PM then before bed around 11 PM. Is that hawkish enough or do I need to teach my wife how to use the kits and have her test around lunch time too?
I would test it once a day. Any more and it's just overkill. But, it doesn't hurt either Also, make sure to test the pH when the lights are on. When the lights are off, the pH will drop as algae will go into a dark respiration period and stop releasing oxygen that keeps the pH slightly higher.

Quote:
I know there are probably many of you vets out there chiding me for going to fast I'm just worried about the algae and other unwatned stuff taking over adn ruining things before it has a chance to be ready
I have unfortunate news for you. Your tank WILL go through these unwanted cycles, and there isn't anything you can really do about it. In fact, part of the Nitrogen cycle is just the beginning.. It's part of the aging of your tank. Predator/Prey ratios have to balance, and this can take several months. This Balancing Act starts out small with the Nitrogen Cycle with chemicals being the "prey" and bacteria being the "predator". Eventually, Unicellular Algae (Phytoplankton, Cyanobacteria, Dinoflagellates, Diatoms, etc) will become predominant as "food" is available. Eventually their population will boom, thus people having "problems" with "blooms". Eventually Zooplankton of all forms will grow to feed on the algae. Your algae will disappear, and then you will have a bloom of 'pods. Eventually the pod population will starve out to a managable level, and then the concentrated nutrients that comprises the bodies of the zooplankton will release and then start to feed larger, nuisance algae. Eventually, the nuisance algae will die out to a managable level, and all will be well. This can all take about 6 months to a year to finally get to a balanced level! That is...if you don't add anything to your tank...ever. As soon as you introduce a predator (fish, corals, inverts, etc) or prey (which can include food), then the process starts all over. Now, that all seems fine, but what does it mean to your newly acquired animals. Well, they might not have an appropriate amount of food yet, or it may seem like they have lots of food, but the population of prey will quickly die out and then the animal you introduced could starve to death. It's because of this reason why people recommend such large tanks with such large amounts of rocks and a huge waiting period for something as simple and small as a Dragonet or Mandarinfish. They specifically prey on 'pods. It takes around 6 months for the pod population to balance, lots of rocks to keep the pod population self-sufficient when the predator is introduced, and...well...all those rocks need a large container to hold them in I hope that clears up any confusion on why people are urged to wait so long. This information is planned for a later update, but I thought that I would sum it up here since there are so many people starting new tanks and following this thread. Oh, and First-Chevalier, thanks for involuntarily being the guinea pig, er..uh, I mean example


Quote:
and teh water parameters aren't reading any of the Amonia, nitrites, or nitrates which is in line with what the Fish Guy said. Now, I know he could just be selling me a bill of goods so I will buy more stuff then blaming me for not doing something when my tank crashes and kills everything. But so far everything he's told me about the stuff he's pointed me to has turned out correct. They were also VERY pleased to see I was actively talking to you guys on RC adn encouraged me to do so I'm tending to learn towards them being trustworthy and looking out for me because when I go into the store and ask questions they aren't shoving the most expensive item in that category at me first. They ask some questions then point to a few things that, so far, have been in the 'more afordable' category. I promise to try to slow down more. I'm going to start a 5.5g nano project on the tank today or tomorrow to try and take my mind off of it and give me something to do. Maybe that will help.
It really sounds like you have something great going on for you locally. You should really feel honored. Not everyone has the priviledge of having a good LFS near them.
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  #74  
Old 02/15/2007, 12:52 PM
Travis L. Stevens Travis L. Stevens is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by first-chevalier
I am starting to see little green nodules forming on many of my rocks. I'm also noticing lots of very fine pale or white hairs on one. Are these buble algae and hair algae? And if I shouldn't add more clean up crew to the tank how do you control this until it's time, or is the point that you don't so there is ample food supply for the crew when they get here?
I couldn't tell you without a picture. Sorry.
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  #75  
Old 02/15/2007, 01:09 PM
first-chevalier first-chevalier is offline
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Eh, go ahead and use me as an example of what not to do. I'm used to it. Unfortunately my best learning is the painful, damn-I-screwed-that-up-how-do-I-fix-it kind. The guys who do those warning posters that are the oposite of the motivational ones about team-work, attitude, experience, etc and I are in talks. They say some of my baby pictures could be made into a great set of birth control adds....
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But how can it be a closed system if there's a big opening in the back of my hood......
 

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