29 gallon lagoon tank...advice please

[lancer99]

Hi,

Apologies in advance for this lengthy post.

I'm thinking about starting up a 29 gallon lagoon tank, thus medium water flow & lots of light.

My Must Haves are a long tentacle anemone, possibly with a pair of clownfish, and seagrass, preferably turtle grass/Thalassia sp. The seagrass is at least as important as the LTA. Along with that, some of the feather caulerpas, halimeda, udotea, etc.

I plan on having a 6" sugar sand/silt substrate, with a few pieces of live rock at one end to simulate a coral outcrop. The tank is 18" high, so that will give 12" for the turtle grass.

This is my plan: (1) place the sand, along with the cycled live rock, in the tank, and allow it to cycle (2) add SurfZone Live Sand Activator from ipsf, the caulerpa & turtle grass (3) wait a month until (hopefully) everything is happy (4) add the anemone

I have lots of questions:

Turtle grass: Will it be unhappy with only 12" of water?

Lighting: I have a 150W 5500K & a 175W 10KK fixture on hand. Lardizabal (http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_...st.asp?CartId=) recommends at least 5 and preferably 8-10 watts per gallon for seagrasses. I could in a pinch use a 250W fixture ...anyone with real-world experience on this one?

Skimmer: I'd like to try a system without one. I know the macroalgae will appreciate the added nutrient load, within reason...will the seagrass too? (CPR Backpack in reserve if needed)

Fish: My first instinct was a goby/shrimp pair, but I don't think the turtlegrass would appreciate all that digging in such a small tank. Second choice is a clownfish pair. I know a 29 is a bit small for two fairly active fish, but is it too small? If not, any alternative suggestions?

LTA: I know it will be happy with a Periclimines shrimp...does it also like anemone crabs/Neopetrolisthes sp.? If I get the clownfish, will they argue with the shrimp/crab?

Invert tankmates (1): I'd love to have a Cataphyllia jardinei/elegance coral. They are a bit old hat, but I've never kept one, due to their agressiveness & expansion...they are beautiful nonetheless. In the 29 the LTA & the elegance would be at least 18" apart. Opinions?

Invert tankmates (2): A gigas or derasa clam. I know I'd have to keep it well out of reach of both the elegance & the LTA.

Invert tankmates (3): I'd also like a couple of Phymanthus rock/flower anemones, maybe with associated shrimp. They are small and don't really move...so I guess I don't have any questions there .

SPS: Fossa & Nilsen mention Pocillopora damicornis & Montipora digitata as being typical in lagoons....any other suggestions?

Sorry for the long post. I've been keeping marine/reef tanks off & on for 15 years, but this is my first attempt at a lagoon tank, so I'm hoping to benefit from everyone's expertise.

-Robert

[Samala]

Howdy Robert, first off, you get many many many bonus points for spelling my name correctly!

Second, see the reefkeeping article on seagrass here. I think it'll be a big help.

Some quick thoughts:

Turtle grass wont mind the 12" height at all. In fact, less water will mean less light required to keep it happy. I didnt have great growth with 130w PC (daylight bulb) with turtle grass, so you might be best off going with the 175w. I hate to waste energy, but the 250w might also work.. just a lot of heat to deal with.

That first article was a little less 'advanced' than the reefkeeping article, particularly for lighting needs. As a basic rule of thumb those wpg ranges will work, I can attest to that. I think you'll really enjoy the second article if you havent seen it yet.

The seagrass (Halodule, Syringodium and Halophila might also look great in this tank) will definitely enjoy a skimmerless tank and access to (quite likely) higher nutrient levels. If you go to the stickie at the top of this forum, "Forum Favorites" you can find threads where I have ventured to suggest that people actually dose fertilizers into their tank to keep the seagrass happy. A bit extreme for coral/grass lagoon style tanks, but, goes to show that the plants appreciate food just like the fish.

I have never owned a goby/shrimp pair. If they are typically restricted to a burrow or two, and dont move it very often, they may still work in a tank such as this one. I had a jawfish that worked very well as he stayed (mostly) to one or two burrows and I kept the 'grass in other areas.

I'll turn this over to the coral gurus that drift through here and are also interested in lagoon aquariums. They'll be the best for advice on specific genus and species that should work in your arrangement.

Finally, welcome to what we affectionately call, "the dark side." Please feel free to ask away anything that comes to mind, we're here to help!

>Sarah

[graveyardworm]

Turtle grass: Will it be unhappy with only 12" of water?

My turtle grass is in 12 inches of water and has reached the surface +. I dont think this detrimental to the plant and I have seen no ill effects yet just lettin you know.

Lighting: I have a 150W 5500K & a 175W 10KK fixture on hand. Lardizabal (http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium...ist.asp?CartId=) recommends at least 5 and preferably 8-10 watts per gallon for seagrasses. I could in a pinch use a 250W fixture ...anyone with real-world experience on this one?

Currently mine is growing under 80 watts of NO flourescent lighting and seems to be doing well. I am not recommending this. I think 150 watts would be okay ( assuming your talking about MH ) 175 would definately be better. 250 would probably be overkill. Sarahs the real expert here so I would take her advice. The LTA is going to have higher light demands than the seagrass IMO so I would go with the 175.

My Must Haves are a long tentacle anemone, possibly with a pair of clownfish

I would stop here as far as fish stocking goes. What type of clowns are we talking about? The LTA will easily take up half the tank when fully grown which if well fed wont take very long. Anything else in there would leave little room for seagrass. Depending on the type of clown they can become very aggressive especially in a small tank.

Also your gonna want the skimmer on there to keep water quality high and the LTA happy. IMO the anemone can take some nitrates I've had mine up to 5 ppm and the anemone was doing fine not sure on PO4 though mine has always been undetectable.

Another also, I would wait a minimum 6 months before adding the LTA are you planning on having some LR in there? IME LTA's prefer to dig their foot in under something.

[mr. bojangsjang]

whats an LTA? Would manatee grass grow in 12 inches of water and 6 inches of DSB?

[lancer99]

Sarah,

Thanks for your reply. I can't take any credit for spelling your last name correctly...the credit would have to go to whoever invented cut & paste

Your article on reefkeeping.com was extremely informative & helpful. I also read your article on Halophila & Anthony Calfo's. Between those & a few threads here, I've learned a lot in a few days!

But now I'm more concerned about the substrate. The SurfZone Live Sand Activator seems like it would be a good way to get things kick-started, but how long do you think I should wait before adding the seagrasses?

BTW, after reading your article, I'm definitely going to try to get some of the other sea grass species you mentioned. I really like the Halophila, but haven't had much luck finding a source for it. The other three seem to be reasonably available.

If this is the dark side, I like it!

David,

Thank you as well. You're absolutely right - I did some measuring, and with a LTA & some live rock, there won't really be room for much else. So my Must Have has become a Mustn't Have!

So I'm rethinking the whole thing. One possibility is to turn it into a clam tank, with a couple of croceas/maximas on the LR & derasa/gigas on the sand. In that case I'll definitely go with the 250W halide.

Or I might go completely Florida/Caribbean. There's some nice aquacultured Florida LR available (not cheap though!), and I do like the idea of a tank that has species from a specific geographical region.

So again thanks to you both. You've given me a lot to think about!

-Robert

[graveyardworm]

whats an LTA

Long Tentacle Anemone

[graveyardworm]

You could do the elegance if you can find a healthy one, or any one of a number of LPS corals many of which are commonly found in the sand. A goby pair would be cool just make sure to support your LR, maybe a clam or two.

[lancer99]

David/Sarah,

Thanks again. I've decide to scale back...even an elegance will grow too quickly and take up too much of the tank.

So for now I'm gonna limit it to LR and the seagrasses. A couple of medium-flow SPS on the LR, like Pocillopora damicornis.

Once the seagrasses are doing well, I'll probably add a clam. Lagoons are the natural habitat of T. gigas & derasa, but they do suck up nitrate...obviously from the water column & not the sand, so hopefully that won't be a problem.

I just ordered 90 lbs of Aragamax sand, as well as 40 pounds of Tidal Marine Meridian Oolitic .... if a certain well-known etailer wants to deliver that to me for $12, I can't complain!

Thanks,
-Robert

[crrichey]

Just thought I would share a photo of my 29 gallon lagoon as inspiration