Lets talk about Vodka/sugar dosing

[SDguy]

Originally posted by woz9683
I thought it was important to dose during the lighting period, so if you dosed in the pm you would want to make sure your lights were still going to be on for a couple more hours.

I'm assuming this is due to pH reduction during bacterial growth?

[SDguy]

I am having an issue with STN at the bases of certain acros. Only the very most shaded edges/backsides. Other fully lit edges are growing fine, so that suggests a flow/light issue? Not really sure if there is any connection to the vodka, since it started before that. Most noticeable on my tricolors, which probably has to do with the burnt tips I had on my tricolors a few weeks ago. Hmmm, too many variables. I need an aspirin

[stony_corals]

Originally posted by SDguy
At 20mL, were you dosing the entire volume at once, or say 10mL in the am, and another 10mL in the pm? I'd prefer to not get a "bloom" of any kind, if I can help it.

Too many systems, I'm lazy, once daily when the lights are on....

[stony_corals]

Originally posted by SDguy
I am having an issue with STN at the bases of certain acros. Only the very most shaded edges/backsides. Other fully lit edges are growing fine, so that suggests a flow/light issue? Not really sure if there is any connection to the vodka, since it started before that. Most noticeable on my tricolors, which probably has to do with the burnt tips I had on my tricolors a few weeks ago. Hmmm, too many variables. I need an aspirin

I'd say flow/light issue... IMHO. The other thing I've noticed is that certain corals don't do as well under nutrient poor conditions... ORA come to mind. They seem to do better in high nutrient level conditions.... just an observation.

[SDguy]

I think they've grown too much, and are shading their bases too much in some areas. Oh well, time to frag

[smalltime]

Theres plenty of information here about Vodka dosing. Where is the info about sugar? I know sugar is being dosed to have diversity in bacteria so you don't monticulture. Where is the dosing schedule for sugar?

Is there a certain brand of sugar people are using? Granulated sugar(table-sugar product refined to 99.9% pure sucrose) or Raw sugar(unrefined sucrose)?

[SDguy]

Originally posted by stony_corals
I'd say flow/light issue... IMHO. The other thing I've noticed is that certain corals don't do as well under nutrient poor conditions... ORA come to mind. They seem to do better in high nutrient level conditions.... just an observation.

OK, checked everything today. All levels are spot on.

9.6dKH
460ppm Ca
1450ppm Mg
1.025 salinity
80F
NO3 salifert 0?
PO4 salifert 0?

, except pH. Was at it's lowest (morning before lights on) at 7.8. Hmm, is this a function of the bacterial growth/respiration? Did you track this parameter while dosing? It's not much lower than normal, but still, just trying to figure out this recession, in case it's not flow/lighting.

[stony_corals]

Originally posted by SDguy
OK, checked everything today. All levels are spot on.

9.6dKH
460ppm Ca
1450ppm Mg
1.025 salinity
80F
NO3 salifert 0?
PO4 salifert 0?

, except pH. Was at it's lowest (morning before lights on) at 7.8. Hmm, is this a function of the bacterial growth/respiration? Did you track this parameter while dosing? It's not much lower than normal, but still, just trying to figure out this recession, in case it's not flow/lighting.

I run reactors... so at that time, my systems run ~7.9. This is a little lower than pre vodka, so I'm assuming that's the cause... Yeah everything looks good. Flow?

Smalltime, I don't know why there's no dosing guidelines for sugar... I tried a pinch/day and that didn't do much for me.... What are you doing

[SDguy]

Originally posted by stony_corals
Flow?

Hopefully the new Vortech I buy myself for xmas will take care of that, taking me to 8000gph

I too would be interested in some sugar experiences...

[speedstar]

not given this as a recommendation, but in a 400g total system i dose a heaping teaspoon sugar, 8ml vodka and 3ml of vinegar daily. If the corals take on pastel look i drop the doseage.

[SDguy]

Interesting....how is your pH, and do you run a calcium reactor and/or use kalk? Thanks for the info.

[smalltime]

I'm debating on the sugar addition to my tank but everything sounds good on the Vodka. I've read the entire Vodka / Sugar dosing thread in the Chemistry Forum and found this to be a general guideline for Vodka:

DSB tanks react very sensitively on vodka supplementation, thus be careful! If you run a DSB without a skimmer, you should add one to your tank.

Vodka should be supplemented daily during the lighting phase.

You can start with 0.1 mL/100 L for the first three days.
Then you increase the vodka volume to 0.2 mL/100 L for day 4-7.
Subsequently to this initial week you increase the vodka dose by 0.5 mL per total tank volume (this is important, do not dose on a per 100L basis, but on the total tank volume!) every week.

So, e.g. for a 500 L tank:

day 1-3: 0.1 * 5 = 0.5 mL
day 4-7: 0.2 * 5 = 1 mL
2. week (day 8-14): 1 mL + 0.5 mL = 1.5 mL
3. week: 1.5 mL + 0.5 mL = 2 mL.

After these 3 weeks you should recognize changes in the nutrient levels (nitrate, phosphate). If the nutrient levels are still unchanged, you should further increase the dose by 0.5 mL per total tank volume.
As soon as you recognize either nitrate or phosphate to start dropping you shouldn't further increase the vodka volume but watch the nutrient levels, even in the first three weeks.

You should log your nutrient measurements and monitor the nutrient levels on a regular basis (every 3 days).

Also an efficeint / oversized skimmer is a must!

Still looking for the Sugar Guidelines.

[SDguy]

Stony actually linked to that thread in the OP, so for anyone that wants to read more, here it is again....
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...&pagenumber=21)

[SDguy]

OK, I seriously think a hazmat team is in order ....

[speedstar]

Originally posted by SDguy
Interesting....how is your pH, and do you run a calcium reactor and/or use kalk? Thanks for the info.

I use a GEO reactor, PH alittle low but low PH has never scared me as it does some. My PH is 7.88 ~8.14 depending on time of day. I don;'t use Kalk currently, but have been consideing adding it again, just to ease the flow of the reactor. The SPS are really taking off and i haven;t got dialed back in yet (which is usually very easy).

[speedstar]

I am barebottom, and run a reeflo 250 on my system.

I also dose about an hour after the light come on.

[SDguy]

What were your goals with this dosing? Did you achieve them? Do you have any pics for comparison?

For anyone else as well, did you achieve the goals you were after with dosing vodka/sugar/etc. ?

[stony_corals]

That's some ugly looking stuff Peter! fwiw, Jorg in the original thread recommended skimming wet, though you are using ozone so that may help removal of bacteria as well.... You've really got your MRC2 dialed in nicely though!

[woz9683]

I'm assuming this is due to pH reduction during bacterial growth?

Yeah, I think that's probably the reason.

For anyone else as well, did you achieve the goals you were after with dosing vodka/sugar/etc. ?

Not yet, but I blame that on my skimmer not being able to keep up with the bacteria removal part of the process. I've got a new skimmer on the way, so once it gets running I expect to start seeing results.

[SDguy]

Originally posted by stony_corals
That's some ugly looking stuff Peter! fwiw, Jorg in the original thread recommended skimming wet, though you are using ozone so that may help removal of bacteria as well.... You've really got your MRC2 dialed in nicely though!

I almost feel guilty pouring it down the drain

I have to say this skimmer was incredibly easy to dial in. Not sure where the stories of becketts being a pain come from in that respect. Perhpas it's the way mine is plumbed (level with the sump....constant water level in the sump)?

[kkris]

Is this the dosing guidelines that everyone uses:

So, e.g. for a 500 L tank:

day 1-3: 0.1 * 5 = 0.5 mL
day 4-7: 0.2 * 5 = 1 mL
2. week (day 8-14): 1 mL + 0.5 mL = 1.5 mL
3. week: 1.5 mL + 0.5 mL = 2 mL.

Is this for adjusted volume? Minus dsb rock etc.

How would vinegar and sugar factor in?

[stony_corals]

Originally posted by SDguy
I almost feel guilty pouring it down the drain

I have to say this skimmer was incredibly easy to dial in. Not sure where the stories of becketts being a pain come from in that respect. Perhpas it's the way mine is plumbed (level with the sump....constant water level in the sump)?

OT: I have one as well on one system, if you don't remember you sent me pics about your water level....

[stony_corals]

Originally posted by kkris
Is this the dosing guidelines that everyone uses:

So, e.g. for a 500 L tank:

day 1-3: 0.1 * 5 = 0.5 mL
day 4-7: 0.2 * 5 = 1 mL
2. week (day 8-14): 1 mL + 0.5 mL = 1.5 mL
3. week: 1.5 mL + 0.5 mL = 2 mL.

Is this for adjusted volume? Minus dsb rock etc.

How would vinegar and sugar factor in?

Yes, it's net volume of water.... that is the big question, no one has proposed a vinegar or sugar alternative dosing schedule.....

[SDguy]

Originally posted by stony_corals
OT: I have one as well on one system, if you don't remember you sent me pics about your water level....

Well I hope it was helpful

[SDguy]

Originally posted by stony_corals
Yes, it's net volume of water.... that is the big question, no one has proposed a vinegar or sugar alternative dosing schedule.....

Well, as far as my calculations go, assuming we are looking at pure starting materials, and only interested in carbon...

I calculated 1 gram of sucrose = 0.42 grams of carbon

while 1 milliliter of ethanol (or 2.5mL of 80 proof) = 0.557 grams of carbon.

You should be able to cross calculate to determine what amount of sugar will replace a certain amount of vodka, give or take...