EcoTech Marine and the Elusive Wireless Wave Driver

[Giovanni]

This post is related to EcoTech Marine's post The Wireless Wave Driver is Coming and the way they are handling the selling of the WWD.

It was pointed out here by beerguy that the thread is getting off topic and complaints such as this should be posted in this forum.

These are just the facts as I see them.


I purchased two MP-40 pumps for $350 ea plus shipping (~$750 total) early on when they first came out about a year ago.

They posted videos of the wireless driver working and bragged how the wireless driver is "Coming Soon". With a video of it working, who would not believe it was coming soon. They also said that in the mean time the pump could be run on a wave timer. Complications with the stock driver prevent its use on a wave driver. Most would agree that taking a year to come out with the new wireless driver is not SOON. So neither of these has been true.

I was told that there would be a limited quantity of these drivers and I needed to preorder to be sure I would get one. They did say there would be more built later but that there was not even a guess as to how long it would be before they were released. After I complained about the vague nature of the statement "limited quantities", Tim did release information stating that it would be 150 units for this first batch.

I paid almost three weeks in advance, $200 plus $32 shipping for the wireless wave drivers (WWD) and was promised a ship date of Sep. 4th. This is another promise that has not been true. Tim blamed this on the FCC not getting their approval done on time.

This means they presold the drivers without approval of the FCC.

I am a customer who has almost $1000 and a years time being patient, invested in two pumps that will not provide random like flow.

Don't get me wrong, the width of flow and size of these pumps is great. I LIKE the pumps despite the trouble with bearings, nosier than expected operation, drivers failing and rusting magnets on the wet side. None of which I have made a big deal over.

I watched all the finger pointing and complaining that went on with the release of the pumps. See the thread EcoTech Marine VorTech MP40 Release Information if you have the fortitude to read through it. Until this WWD fiasco I have not complained and even took up for EcoTech Marine. I have now become frustrate enough and feel cheated enough to speak out.

I have been offered a refund of the WWD money buy EcoTech Marine and AquariumSpecialty. This would only serve to prolong my use two functionality limited pumps. I do not want to prolong my wait any more than necessary. My frustration is not just about the latest EcoTech Marine WWD fiasco, but the fact it started with the promise of, "Coming Soon", when I purchased the pumps in the first place.

I do not plan on taking a refund for the WWDs.

[spsboy]

I gotta say, this is very well put. And many of us are feeling your pain. I was excited as well when I saw the WWD at macna, but the viagra has worn off, and know I'm ready to see the fruits of there labor and our time. Hopefully, it will be a great addition to some already nice pumps, but the wait has been painstakingly long.
Here's to feeling your pain,
Drew

[kysard1]

I decided to wait on the WWD, they gave no specs, just some pie in the sky rendering. They collected money to pay for their development. Unheard of in business practice.

[bureau13]

Uhhh...no. If they're guilty of anything its being optimistic that a division of the federal government might actually do something in a timely fashion. They never collected money without telling what the thing would do...

jds

[kysard1]

basic info is absent:

ramp up/down rate of each mode
min/max speed of each mode

thats all there is to a wave controlle. We and I suspect Ecotech know nothing about what this thing does

[Giovanni]

bureau13,

If EcoTech Marine had stated that they were still waiting on FCC approval, how many people do you think would have paid their money up front?

[Conceyted]

Ecotech had a very very early version of their WWD put together for Macna last year. They were also very willing to talk to anyone about it and I found them to be very nice and welcoming. I understand why you might be frustrated with them taking your money and then not delivering on time, but all of this talk about "coming soon" is rubbish. How can you complain that "coming soon" wasn't soon enough? Soon had no definition from the get go, so why get all bent out of shape over it? If you were in dire need of wave creating pumps why did you decide on vortech?

I guess I just don't understand all the whining. You say you were patient for over a year, but it was not promised in a year. Patience would have been waiting longer than the September 4th ship out date. Just my opinion, of course. I hope they come out soon and you are happy with your driver.

[todd rose]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10719968#post10719968 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Conceyted
Ecotech had a very very early version of their WWD put together for Macna last year. They were also very willing to talk to anyone about it and I found them to be very nice and welcoming. I understand why you might be frustrated with them taking your money and then not delivering on time, but all of this talk about "coming soon" is rubbish. How can you complain that "coming soon" wasn't soon enough? Soon had no definition from the get go, so why get all bent out of shape over it? If you were in dire need of wave creating pumps why did you decide on vortech?

I guess I just don't understand all the whining. You say you were patient for over a year, but it was not promised in a year. Patience would have been waiting longer than the September 4th ship out date. Just my opinion, of course. I hope they come out soon and you are happy with your driver.

Hangin curveball

[Giovanni]

Conceyted,


Yes "coming soon" was vague. The details about functionality were also vague. EcoTech Marine has become masters of releasing vague information, some may even say they release disinformation because they are worried about the competition. That is part of the problem.

So I have three questions for you:

1. If they would have said in the beginning that, no it will not work with a wave maker and yes it will be more than a year till the WWD comes out, how many people do you think would have purchased these pumps in the beginning?

2. What do you feel "Coming Soon" to mean considering they were posting videos of a prototype, weeks, months, Years?

3. Do you really think it was o.k. for them to presell the pump and not even have FCC approval?

[Conceyted]

1. I still believe the vast majority of Vortech owners would have bought the Vortech pumps regardless of when the WWD was coming out. I look at this the same way I look at Digital Aquatics and their new software, MyReef. They talked it up for a while before releasing it and people who had the RK2 knew about the software being developed and "coming soon" for over a year. Businesses do this, companies do this, it is a way to build up some hype about the product. I don't see the problem?

2. Working for my boss for almost 2 years and developing multiple websites for his company, I have the understanding that coming soon means it is coming out within a reasonable amount of time. I am pretty much positive that EcoTech has not been sitting around twiddling their thumbs as they watch the hype build around their product. R&D takes time! Producing units takes time! Working out kinks and bugs so the public is happy when you release your product takes time! EcoTech displayed their wireless controller at Macna exactly one year ago. I feel that their statement of "coming soon" one year ago was perfectly legitimate.

3. NO. This is one point we do agree on. I believe that EcoTech was wrong for preselling while still not having FCC approval. If they did decide to presell and they informed their customers ahead of time, I would see no problem with this. It seems like you feel the wool was pulled over your eyes here, and I can completely understand how you could feel this way.

That being said, I still believe that you bought these pumps with a day in your mind that you had HOPED the WWD would be released on. When this wasn't the case, it appears you set out to make it known that you were unhappy that it was taking so long. Again, just my opinion.

PS: If you didn't want your money back why did you complain to both AS and EM? Did you think they could push it through the FCC faster? I just don't understand what you want anyone to do. I am sure EcoTech Marine wants this out just as fast as you do. The more they can release, the more they can sell, and the more money they will make.

[Conceyted]

Also, I am glad to hear I am not the only one that feels that you are acting impatiently. I just reread through the original WWD thread that you linked in your original post and it appears that quite a few people politely asked you to stop bumping the thread everyday asking for a time frame. It is as if you have never heard the term "coming soon" before. If someone guesses a random time they would be held responsible for getting the product out onto the market in the time they gave. It is quite ordinary to suggest your product is "coming soon" rather than giving a specific deadline/time frame. It takes some stress off the developers.

[melev]

As someone that has been running VorTech pumps in my tank for almost 2 years (20 months), I have to say I love the product as it is. The controller is going to make it better, and if I have to wait longer to get a product that works right out of the box, even better.

I've run my own business for two decades, and plan jobs based on the information at hand. If the FCC has stated the approval date was imminent, I can see how EcoTech was scheduling its release just afterwards. They thought it would be approved days before the first shipment would go out. Instead, something went wrong and we have a delay to deal with. Two choices: cut and run, or wait it out. You've stated in your last sentence that you are going to wait it out.

If everything had worked out as anticipated, this thread would have probably been very different. It is tough keeping the customer base happy in this world of instant feedback available web-wide.

Regarding 'funtionality limited pumps', I've been so impressed with their limited function that I put three on my tank and retired my Tunzes. Using them the way they are, my tank has done very well and I have zero regrets.

[SDguy]

FWIW, my company advertises upcoming diagnostics all the time, then we run into all sorts of snags and delays (thanks FDA! ).

I too am in love with my new vortech, regardless of the release date for the controller. I too would prefer a very functional unit later.

[Giovanni]

Conceyted,

You should read my post again. It is not as much about the release date as you and some others think. The delayed release is only a symptom of the real problem.

I am mostly motivated by the principle of this and only partially by the money. This is one reason I had not asked for a refund. If asking for a refund, it would be for both my pumps and the drivers. As stated before, these pumps are of limited use without the new drivers due to no random flow.

Do you really think asking Tim once a day for two days in a row how long he thinks approval will take is unreasonable?

He could have replied, I don't know or I spoke to the FCC and they do not know. That would have done just fine, but he chose to be elusive and not answer at all. I thought with all the BSing in the thread he might have missed my post so I asked again. Now I know he did not miss it and just chooses not to answer.

I simply have been asking for an estimate of how long Tim thinks this approval will take. He has now had four days to talk to the FCC and find out how much longer they think it will take but still no reply.

[Conceyted]

I have read your posts numerous times. Every time I make a comment I like to reread the entire thread to make sure what I post is not off base. And to be completely honest, you are being unreasonable and impatient. If you are unhappy get your money back for the WWD. If you want to wait then wait it out, but stop whining about it.

Oh, and you say that if you were to ask for a refund it would be for the pumps and the controller. You will never see a cent back from vortech for the pumps you have used the past year. You bought the pumps knowing they did not have controllability at the time. Why would you expect them to refund you now because you are too impatient to wait a few extra weeks or months for the controller to come out? Get a grip.

[Giovanni]

No whining here. I just stated the facts of what has transpired. Conceyted you on the other hand seem to be whining a bit in that last post. If you don't want to read what I have to say then unsubscribe from this thread. It wont cost you a dime or very much time. Just click here to Unsubscribe.

Just to be clear that I am not so concerned with the actual date of release. I did tell Tim that if he would say how long he needed I would give it a break until then. If he would have said 6 months, I would have dropped it for 6 months. He declined to reply to that post also.

Here is that post.


Like I said once before. ALL I am asking for is to be honestly informed, not left in the dark and fed crap like some kind of mushroom.

[Conceyted]

What if he doesn't know how long it will be? Did it ever occur to you that you are one of the only people who seems to have to know specifically down to the second when this unit will be released. Can you not see that you might be taking this a little too far and being a little bit impatient? I am not whining, either. I am simply trying to explain to you that all you are doing is carrying on about a bunch of nonsense while everyone else patiently waits for their drivers. As you can see, there are people ready and willing to pay to take your spot in this preorder. Why is it that you have to know the exact amount of time Tim expects this to take? Just let them do their job and trust that they are doing all they can to get their product out on the market.

[Giovanni]

Just honest communication, not leaving us in the dark with vague statements. Tim's response would only take a few minutes and go something like this:

Giovanni and others who may be concerned,

I really have no idea when we will get the FCC approval. I will be talking with a representative about our application this week and will let you know what he/she has to say. Thanks again for your patients.

Then a follow up today something like this:

Dear customers,

I spoke to the FCC and .......

or

I was unable to speak to the FCC and ....

[mhurley]

Ok....This axe grinding session is now complete. You've shared your experience, now we all move on.