Alright Newbie; Let's shed some light on this subject.

[The Grim Reefer]

Not waterkeeper but in this case the LFS isn't scamming you. Most people swap out PC lamps at 9 to 12 months.

[WaterKeeper]

I think the group over at the Lighting Forum has sent Sanjay and Steve over to the Newbie Forum to keep an eye on me. Guys, I’ve been scamming Newbies for a long time now and am a real Pro at it. Before I’m done I’ll have them lighting their tanks with MH car headlights.

Yes Silver, over time they do lose brilliance so after a year or so it is time to change them out. Your eyes adjust to this loss of light so you don't notice this unless you happen to have a Quantum meter like Grim does.

Alright, for the rest of you Fall In! Just because it is a weekend doesn’t mean it’s a day off. It is a 24/7/365 battle to keep those forces that plot against your new tank from ruling the world.

We’ve been talking about magnetic ballasts to this point, which for the most part, are the cheap method to light one’s tank. Your other option is electronic ballasts. These are the expensive, and in the past very, very expensive way to run your lights. Electronic ballasts have been around for some 25 years now and if you bought the original versions you probably would have gone through a 100 or more of them by now. The early electronics had about a 3-month lifetime and even those made ten years after their original introduction rarely outlasted the lamps they were to run. Quality control was terrible and, coupled with the price, made them a very poor choice. Fortunately things have improved as of late and most last almost as long as magnetic that usually last longer than 10 years.

The advantages always touted for them where that they were more economical in energy use, smaller in size and weight, ran cooler, ran at high frequency without flicker and could fire almost any type tube. In Sanjay’s post he brings up that they don’t run lamps as bright as the magnetic. Here he is talking about MH ballasts but the same can be true for fluorescents. If you buy something like Sylvania/Osram electronic ballasts you can choose energy saving types. What this means is that they have low ballasts factors. They may only run a 54-watt T-5HO at 40 watts. The reason for this is it saves electricity and prolongs tube life. If you are a commercial customer building an auditorium this is a big plus. On a reef tank it is counter productive. If you are shopping for bargains be sure to make certain that the ballast has at least a Ballast Factor of 0.95. Lower factors translate to less light.

Now Sanjay brought up something that I was unaware of. I always thought that a magnetic ballast controlled current by shunting excess draw though the ballast coils and creating heat. On the other hand an electronic, at least I thought, actually only pulled as much current from the line as was actually needed by the tube thus saving this heat loss. Think of it this way, a magnetic ballast was like having a tee off a garden hose. A valve off the tee sent water to waste but controlled flow from the main hose. An electronic had no tee but had the valve on the main line and that could be shut down to control flow without wasting water. This made them more efficient. Sanjay is saying that this is not really true and that the electronic converts the excess to radio waves rather than heat and therefore is no more efficient. Not being an electrician or physicist I’ll go along with Sanjay’s expertise.

An all purpose electronic ballast that can run two 110-watt VHO costs under $40 dollars. Ballasts that run 5 or 6 can cost four or five times as much. A lot depends on how much room you have to house these ballasts. The more expensive ballasts are almost always more compact.

This brings me to another point; be it magnetic or electronic, try to get ballasts that allow remote mounting. Ballasts placed in the canopy add to the heat and are exposed to humid, possibly corrosive conditions. Check the specs and see if that the ballast can be mounted in the stand or other location.

Some of the more expensive ballasts have what is known as programmed start. From what I know about this is that it saves the filaments by reducing erosion created during start-up. I’m not sure how valuable that would be on a reef tank that usually only lights once a day. I’d save the money myself if the programmed start adds to the cost.

Another factor in electronic ballasts is that they allow dimming of the tubes. There are reefers out there that like that romantic effect on their tank so a dimmable ballast is welcome for them. I’m not that into the candle light thing and will pass on that.

The flicker factor is always interesting when one discusses fluorescent lighting. Some people, and that doesn’t include me, can see the flicker from a magnetic ballast fired fluorescent. This 60 hertz flicker is supposedly too fast for most people to see. After all, your movie picture only runs at 24 frames per second. There are people who get headaches and such if they read under fluorescent lights. Electronic ballasts are god sent to those people. They typically run at 20,000 hertz or higher and if you can see that then you must be the Flash. As often happens in this hobby, there are some that say fish and inverts see this flicker and contract all sorts of ailments from its effect. People have been keeping FW fish under flickering fluorescent lighting for over 50 years now and I’ve never heard of any problems.

Next I’ll put a wrap on fluorescent ballasts and talk about MH.

Yeah, you can go into town tonight and see how those flickers affect the floozies at the bikini bar. Report back and tell us how many hertz they run at. Dismissed!

[The Grim Reefer]

Hertz is too expensive for me, I use Rent-A-Wreck.

[WaterKeeper]

Did your tank succumb to the Forces of the Dark Side this weekend? You should have checked out those ballasts better as those 277 volts you bought don’t work too well on household current.

The one thing about going to a local home and garden store over getting lighting materials on-line from an aquarium supplier is you need to know exactly what your buying. For instance most fluorescents for the hobby are rapid start but T-5 are Instant On. Only some electronic ballasts can run either. The 277 volt systems are common in stores and factories but don’t run on house current but some ballasts are universal and run on many voltages.

I’m going to talk about MH ballasts for a moment. There is not a great deal of difference of how they work when compared to fluorescents. There is also a lot more information about them than there is for fluorescent ballasts available here on RC. The biggest difference is in bulb base design. Single ended have the familiar screw in base like and ordinary light bulb. Double ended use connectors at each end, more like a fluorescent. The other big difference is starting method. Here there is pulse start and probe start with the latter using a special electrode just to ignite the arc. Probe start ballasts for single ended lamps have a designation using a two-digit number. It is like a M57 for a 175-watt MH with the M signifying a metal halide ballast. An M58 runs a 250-watt and a M59 a 400-watt. Pulse start single ended use a three-digit code with a M137 running a 175, a M138 a 250 and a M135 a 400-watt. Finally double-ended use HQI ballasts which use a two-digit code starting with an 8 so M81 runs a 150-watt and a M80 a 250. There are a few oddballs out there like Iwasaki that use different ballasts so be sure to check that the ballast you have will run that bulb.

Darn, that list, with all those M something’s, sounds like the weapons stored in an armory.

One of the other things about MH ballasts is that they are often sold without a case. With a fluorescent ballast you get a potted ballast that is incased. With MH you may end up just buying a coil and capacitor. It is up to you to supply the case. If you are not very handy with wiring it is better to buy an encased ballast with connectors installed.

MH ballasts take up much more room than fluorescent and run hotter. Unless you are using very low watt MH you want to have the ballast remotely positioned from the lamps.

One nice thing about MH ballast is there are all sorts of papers out there comparing them. Sanjay, Grim Reefer, NY Joe (JB NY) and several others have lots of information available to let you compare the various brands of MH lights. This is good as there are many more people that sell MH when compared to fluorescent.

Well Holy Smokes!!! Why didn’t you Newbies tell me this thread was this long? I just saved the printable version as a word document and it is already 73 pages long. Yikes!

Well, I am getting toward the end so just a few more things on ballasts. If you are new to this hobby and electricity it is always best to buy a complete, and prewired, set-up and avoid being


This can avoid heartache and possibly heart stoppage. There are all sorts of vendors here on RC who will be only too glad to set you up. For the DIY gang you should locate the lights you like then get the spec sheet for the bulbs you wish to purchase. Armed with that info you can chose ballasts using this list.

• How many watts do the tube(s) draw and how many lamps does that ballast run of that wattage?
• What T size does it run or for MH does it run SE or DE?
• What voltage does the ballast require? Usually 120 V for home use. Buy a universal if in doubt.
• What type of start do the lamps need- Instant Start, Rapid Start, Probe, Pulse, Etc. ?
• Ballast factor, it should be a least .95 and, if you plan on overdriving, higher.
• Is it incased or do you need to supply a case and things like a plug?
• Does the case need mechanical ventilation?
• Can it be remotely mounted and how long is that distance from the lights?
• If you plan to change lights latter on will this ballast handle other type lights?
• What is the warrantee period? Especially with electronic ballasts it should be a minimum of two years.
• Does it provide thermal protection? An important safety concern.
• In a large tank what is the ballast’s own electrical overhead? It can save on electric bills to have a ballast that draw only a few watts for operation.
• Noise factor- a rating of A, lowest, to D, which is loudest. A-C s usually fine with the noise around most tanks. A-B for a quiet tank in the boudoir.
• Flicker-if it bothers you then electronic is the way to go.

These are a few of the concerns in choosing a ballast. The more reading you do the more concerns will enter the picture but you will be able to make a better-informed decision.

Well next time I try to wrap things up and talk a little about what is on the horizon in reef tank lighting.

[WaterKeeper]

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury. In summation you have heard the various testimony over which light is right for you. You have heard allegations that fluorescent is old technology and no real reefers use it anymore. You have heard hearsay that MH is the ultimate in lighting and you could be accused of murder, or at least coral slaughter, if you don’t buy giga-watts of it. I hope we have proved during this lengthy trial that the charges and counter charges in this case are groundless (well do use the ground wire on those lights)

Let’s see, we started this all out with a lot of techy stuff. Why? Well, there is all sorts of data on this light vs. that light. It can be a comparison in watts, lumens, lux, PAR or some other unit. The thing is you need to know the benefits of using each type of measurements as well as their shortfalls. Comparing lumens to PAR is like comparing apples to oranges. PAR has come to the forefront lately as cheaper means of measuring it have appeared. It does give a better idea of how lighting will enhance your tank's photosynthesis.


We also talked a great deal about how light behaves as both particles and waves and how those properties of light influence how much of that light is useful to our tanks. We discussed Lord Kelvin and the use of his temperature scale to describe the apparent color of light. By the way, I too am famous and have fish named after the old WaterKeeper. Just find any group of fishermen and you’ll hear them say, “That’s a Keeper.�

I also hope I gave you a better understanding of how the various types of lights function and how things like ballasts work. I stressed the difference between point and continuum sources and how reflectors play an important role in getting the most out of your lights.

So, What is the best light? It is lighting, that either alone or in combination with other type lights, that allows all the creatures you wish to keep healthy, stays within your means and is pleasing to your senses. Currently I like a combination of intermediate, 6-10K Kelvin, MH with true 03 Actinic VHO supplementation. I believe it provides the spectral balance and brightness combination that leads to a successful reef. I would also be looking hard at a MH and T-5 combination as possibly an even better solution.

For small tanks I think PC is best but again there may be T-5 in that categories future. Deep tanks demand MH and I like a mix of color temperatures to light one.

Even though this thread is now over 75 pages it is only a primer. If you plan to start off with a large tank it will pay to spend some time researching lamp/ballast efficiencies. Lighting a large tank can add significant cost to your electric bill. Those with smaller tanks may not be too concerned with the impact on the watt meter but hanging out on the lighting forum can give you a better idea of how to light your tank.

I wish to thank a couple of out RC lighting gurus for popping in with their comments. It is always nice to get some real expert help when talking about one of the most complicated parts of setting up a reef tank.

I’ll be adding just a wee bit more next time before closing. Start stealing some of those LED’s out of dashboards and turn signals before that post.

Moonlighting, have I been so easy on you that you can moonlight? I’ll deal with that too next time

I'll have some links on some of the major threads on lighting in that post.

[thrlride]

Cool, can't wait to hear about moonlighting!

I have phoenix 14k DE bulbs and two super actinic 03 vho's. Are my corals getting enough spectrum to keep them happy?

[JustOneMoreTank]

I have heard good things about www.autolumination.com and the 3 led unit that the have that some have used for a moonlight. It is quite inexpensive at only $4.99 however it will need a power converter that you can buy from them or at RadioShack or HomeDepot.
What do you think WaterKeep?

[WaterKeeper]

The main question here is always, "How are things going in your tank at this point?" On an established tank it is pretty easy to judge good lighting. If the corals and other inverts you choose to keep appear healthy and have good color then your lights are probably fine. If, on the other hand, you add stuff only to see it fade away then probably either the spectral balance, light intensity or both are not ideal.

Your lights are a little too blue for my taste but that is just my own preference Thrill. If they please you then that is what really counts. As I said in the lighting basic rules--Should be pleasing in the eyes of the beholder.

Oh, BTW on the court summation, the jury convicted and the judge gave a sentence of Light in Prism. Man, I'm glad this thread is drawing to a close as my puns are getting cornier and cornier.

[thrlride]

LOL...

I had the XM 10k's on the tank before and they were too white/yellow to my eyes. Even with a pair T5 actinics and VHO actinics they were still too white. I would like a slight bit more white but I am happy with the colors.

The jury is still out on coral growth. Color is still there but I've only had the lights on for a month.

[lillibirdy]

Yaaaaaay, he's gonna talk about moonlighting!!!! My hubby just set up our tanks with cold cathode moonlighting, we also needed a inverter, AND power converter, but they are cool. I am excited and hopeful that you will speak on this as well. We are worried about brightness. We have one tank set up with 6v old phone charger, and the other with a 9v. Don't see much difference. How dim should it be to allow them to sleep. Turning on and off by hand now, but I know some leave it on all the time, reason is...the life is so long I won't burn it out for yrs. Since you can't see it when the daylights are on, when they go off, the moonlight will be there and don't need a timer for it and it will be a nightlight. Of course all this depends on if fish can sleep. The ones they have in the advertisements for MH lights and all, look about the same as mine, maybe a bit brighter, but they are on timers right?

KathyW

[WaterKeeper]

Ahh, always rushing me aren't we Just1.

That is one of the things about LED. They don't work and play well with AC current and need heavily regulated DC to survive. Where fluorescent and MH can take considerable leeway in voltage, 5-10%, as little as 1% can fry an LED.

Fortunately for moonlighting it is not a major problem but now lighting a whole tank with LED might be an expensive undertaking.

[WaterKeeper]

Gang, I have to get to dinner shortly. I'll get to mooning you all tomorrow, I promise.

[The Grim Reefer]

Originally posted by thrlride
LOL...

I had the XM 10k's on the tank before and they were too white/yellow to my eyes. Even with a pair T5 actinics and VHO actinics they were still too white. I would like a slight bit more white but I am happy with the colors.

The jury is still out on coral growth. Color is still there but I've only had the lights on for a month.

Here is a great product to solve your lack of blue color.

http://www.styleinthesun.com/126901.htm

[thrlride]

Originally posted by The Grim Reefer
Here is a great product to solve your lack of blue color.

http://www.styleinthesun.com/126901.htm

Those are kinda cool looking if you have the right face shape!

[The Grim Reefer]

They'd look cool on the prez,

[WaterKeeper]

I only wear Rose colored glasses.

[WaterKeeper]

Shucks,

I was going to amaze you all with the future of lighting your tanks but THEY beat me to it. Now I have nothing left to tell you.

I'll get this thread finished up by Monday. I've been spending time just answering questions on the forums and really didn't have time to do it. Doc Randy will be back from vacation so I won't need to make posts on how many Cal there are in a cium.

[usafjapan]

is a 400watt mh to big for a nano??????

[thrlride]

forget calcium, we want moonlights!

[WaterKeeper]

Tum ta Tum, Tum Tums!

Has anyone noticed that there are more T’s on Reefcentral than there are on a golf course?

I tell you; every time I turn around we have a new super fluorescent making the rounds on this board. We have T-12, T-8, T-5 and now T-6 and T-3 lamps are rumored to be the best thing yet. If you thought fluorescent was dead then hang around the Lighting Forum for awhile. I think the T-5 craze has set off a clone war. Everybody has a new size tube that last sooo much longer and burns sooo much brighter than anything anyone has ever witnessed. I really haven’t been able to track down the facts on the T-3 & 6 thing but I’m pretty sure that it is about the same as the T-5 where the main benefit is in diameter itself. Thinner tube equals thinner reflectors and better light concentration. Where will it end? I have no idea but maybe I can start a rumor about the amazing things T-80 can do for your tank. I’m sure everyone will be figuring out how to shoehorn a 10 inch tube into their canopy.

Talk about being Tee’d off. Why is it you can go out and buy a 55 watt PC (ice cream cone) lamp to replace a incandescent lamp in your house for $20-25 but if you buy a 55 watt U-tube PC for your tank is also runs $20-25? Sure they are the same wattage but when you buy the ice cream cone it comes with miniature ballast built into the base. With the U-tube you must spend an addition $20 or more to purchase a ballast to run it. It is not fair. Hopefully, in the future PC aquarium style lamps will also have a built-in ballast and cost in the $20-25 range like their ice cream cone cousins.

Since fluorescent lighting is a mature technology any advances will probably be slow in coming. I think phosphors will continue to improve. Blue phosphors especially since they tend to be a weak link. High K tubes appear far dimmer than lower K tubes. Part of this is optical illusion. Remember Clark, our stand observer? If you took two lamps of exactly the same lumen output, one being a 4500 K and the other a 12,000 K, Clark would say the 4500 was much brighter. A photographer’s light meter would back up his claim but a Quantum meter would indicate they are much the same. Why? Because our eyes are much more sensitive to the yellow-green end of the spectrum and the photographic meter is purposely biased to favor that same range. The quantum meter looks at the entire spectral output of the lamps so it “sees� no difference.

Sadly, not only is it our eyes, but the high K bulbs themselves that fail the challenge. If you compare similar wattage bulbs with a quantum meter the low K bulb is in fact brighter. This is the fault of the blue phosphors which don’t “glow� as bright as the others. I foresee that this current problem will tend to improve as demand for bluer bulbs gets the manufactures to find better blue phosphors.

The other area that will probably improve is filament design and materials. Filaments are still the weak link in the bulb. When a lamp burns out it is usually due to erosion of the filament causing it to increase resistance and burn out. That same erosion is part of the reason total light output drops with age. Current lamps are vast improvements but there is still some room to enhance filament life even more.

MH is not dead science either. I think the increasing K craze is over. After all we can only get so blue and a 50K bulb is bordering on ultra-violet. I mentioned PCA, polycrystalline aluminum arc tubes. Their advantage is they allow MH lamps to run at higher temperatures and, with MH, a hotter lamp means a brighter lamp. Right now the HQI lamps are limited because of melt down concerns. The quartz tubes are running close to their heat limit. PCA lamps are on the market but mainly only useful in street lighting and such. The reason is that true transparent aluminum is not quite perfected. The current arc tubes are slightly white which is OK for a street lamp but not a aquarium light. There are single crystal sapphire tubes, a form of PCA, but they cost a small fortune. It appears however that improved sintering methods can produce glass clear tubes right now. This has not been translated into mass production but when it does then PCA tubes for MH will make this form of lighting even more brilliant. Watch out though, when they hit the streets the price is likely to be high and the problem of the metal halide salts attacking these tubes will not be shown to be solved until they are in use for a year or two. Still they do hold promise that they may be 15-20% brighter than current HQI MH.

Probably the biggest concern with ballasts, for both fluorescent and MH, is that ballasts can still play havoc with your radio or TV. Stick a dimmer ballast on a PC lamp and you can kiss a good picture goodbye and think someone is eating Rice Krispies on the radio. Shielding and components that reduce RF are under development so this will improve. I also see a drop in price on electronic ballasts. Heck you can buy a complete regulated power supply for your computer for like 19 bucks! Lamp ballasts shouldn’t cost much more even if the electronic manufactures want us to believe that silicones have been over hunted and all are hiding in Pamela Anderson’s chest.

You newbies are so easily LED that I shall confound your brains with Light Emitting Diodes next time.

[thrlride]

Moonlights, moonlights, moonlights, moonlights...............






































































I want moonlights!


























































Please.

[WaterKeeper]

By the Light---Of the silvery Moon


I just love to keep people in suspense.

[Knyght]

Absolutely the best thread on lighting that I have ever read.


Any chance we could see a picture of your tank?

[JustOneMoreTank]

Aaawwww... we wanted moonlights. Please can we have some moonlights?

[foghorn911]

Waterkeeper,

I think you might be overlooking a key lighting technology. . .

I just did a quick calculation and it would only take 4000 White LED's to match the light output of one 250W metal halide. Do you think large arrays of LED's are the future of aquarium lighting ? Don't get hung up about the massive AC/DC converters that would be needed, I am sure that some breakthrough technology is forthcoming. Hell, one could simply use a car battery or two to run the LED's and just swap the batteries out every day.

I was also considering giving each coral a personalized canopy of LED's suited to its particular needs. Kind of like a tanning bed for each one. I might not be able to see them but I would take comfort in the fact that they were healthy and happy.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts on this matter. Your tutorial on lighting has been very informative and appreciated thus far.