So you got a new fish tank Newbie

[Scuba_Dave]

As always, a great thread. I've been reading your posts since I started, always great info (and never "dry").

[WaterKeeper]

Originally posted by lithoman
My question is I am starting to think i won't have enough room in my cabinet for all the equipment needed for a reef setup. skimmer, sump, chiller, heaters and whatever else i am forgetting.

I have no other room to put the equipment in.

The age old problem for those not blessed with a basement.

Actually those dimensions don't sound too bad. There should be room for a least a 30 gallon sump. You won't be able to put one of those 5 foot tall skimmers in it but there are plenty of shorter ones that do a fine job. A hang-on skimmer is also an option. Heaters are small and I always place some in the tank and the sump to serve as back-up if one fails.

The trick may be hiding a chiller. The ones I've seen are fairly bulky. Never having needed a chiller I am not up on current technology (what else is new ) so there may be some compact ones available. Anyone have a suggestion?

Dave,

Thanks. I would hate to post a "dry' thread on an aquarium site.

To those who asked, "how do I get through the cycle without all the algae?

I haven't the foggiest unless you have a "dry" tank.

There really is no way that I know of to completely avoid the algae bloom. While curing you rock in separate containers, vigorous skimming, and big water changes all help they will only lessen the impact not eliminate it.

Closest I've ever come to a near a non-event with algae was when I set up the 30. I used fully cured aquacultured rock and the bed was made of all live sand. The rock and sand where shipped overnight express and placed, as soon as they arrived, in the previously set up tank.

I never really saw much in the way of free ammonia and nitrates were near zero in less than two weeks. By that time the brown algae was gone and and there was a light coating of green algae, mainly on the rock. After another week or so that too was gone and the tank fully cycled.

The drawback---The rock and sand cost close to $500 with shipping. That's a pretty good piece of change for only a 30 gallon. However, If you have the bucks it can't be topped for having a near "instant" tank.

If you don't spring for fully cured rock, the more LS you have in your bed the better off you will be. You want to get de-nitrification going as soon as you can in any tank. Removing the nitrate will hasten the decline of the algae. Nitrates only have two places to go--forming baby algae or exiting the scene as nitrogen gas.

[Triterium]

Excellent information WaterKeeper....

BUMP

[mike4271]

O.K., So I didnt have to bump the thread, but you can still paypal the $50 bucks to my account.

[Triterium]

Originally posted by mike4271
O.K., So I didnt have to bump the thread, but you can still paypal the $50 bucks to my account.

You were the one who gave me the idea to bump

[WaterKeeper]

Here is a better deal Mike.

For the bump I'll send you a $5.00 off coupon for an 8 oz. bottle of WaterKeeper's Magical Mystery Marine Miracle Mineral Supplement*. Fortified with minerals it is a bargain at only $19.99 (+$7.95 shipping) and handling. Every new reefer should use WaterKeeper's 5-M for a successful marine tank.

*A NOTE TO THE UNWARY FROM RC WaterKeeper hated to waste his reject water from his RO/DI unit and, as cheap as he is, came up with bottling his RO waste in 8 oz. bottles and selling it. We would like to bust him but his claim that is fortified with minerals is true. It is also fortified with every other miserable contaminant found in his tap water. His waste therefore becomes your problem.

[mike4271]

Sorry if we are wandering off thread, but you may have hit on a deal here as I am also semi retired. I was thinking of a 75% 25% mix of your new product and my skimmate, a prety label, and we could give special deals to all the people that ***** about server busy messages. O.K., now I'm going into hiding before the barrage starts.

[CrystalAZ]

It could be the latest thing for all the health nuts.

"Skim Water" - full of minerals and nutrients. Also boosts your immune system (but don't tell them thats from introducing all kinds of horrible things to it).

Crystal

[WaterKeeper]

Well if your "Protein Skimmer" is truly skimming protein then the FCC can't ride you over false advertizing about it being a protein supplement.

Maybe we can this this guy to sell our products.



As seen on TV!!! WaterKeeper's 5-M supplement-now fortfied with protein. Act NOW and we'll super-size your order...

[Triterium]

WaterKeeper, you crack me up!

[Lofty]

WaterKeeper... I don't think I have received advice from you yet, but I wish I did. LFS are the devil!!! I started my tank on Oct. 6th I bought 7 Lbs of LR for a 55 gallon and 40 lbs of LS. I set the tank up and got my sand in and spent the next 4-5 hours beating up my kitchen R/O system. After all was said and done I had a 55 Gallon tank. I could not handle looking at the tank with two (small) rocks in my tank. I went and bought 18 more Lbs that night. I let it cycle for the next week without a hitch. That next weekend I happened to be going to Cali and ran into a guy on Ebay selling Marshall Island LR for 1.90 a Lb. I asked him if I could pick it up and saved a boat load in shipping and got some really cool rock. Well everything is going fine for a week and my nitrite was at .25 and the ammonia at .50. I went to the trusty LFS and they told me I could put in snails, crabs and a cleaner shrimp. All went well with that. 1 week later I went to another LFS (a much more reputable one) who said I could put a clown and some green star polyps. I bought them with my levels at 0 nitrite and .25 Ammonia. Still everything is fine. I get the clown in the tank and he is acting fine except he is just staring at himself in the side of the tank…. I felt bad and thought he was lonely. Now I go to the original LFS and converse with them for a while and in the end was convinced that a small regal tang and an anemone would be fine. WRONG!!! The tang disappeared 1 day later and reappeared at the bottom of my tank as a skeleton. (I assume it died and the shrimp and crabs got to it) The anemone looks to be doing fine, has found a spot that it seems comfortable in and is eating like a horse (I use a large serenge to feed it brine once a day). My faith is now lost in the LFS that sold me the anemone and tang. I am just trying at this point to save the anemone and keep the tank going on a healthy cycle. I have been through all of the stages of bacteria and algae bloom that had been described in this post. My water is clear, skimmer is skimming, there is a good amount of life growing on the rocks along with some seaweed and I have been noticing some “critters� in the sand bed. Do you have any suggestions as to how I should continue? I appreciate your help.

Daniel

[WaterKeeper]

Hi Daniel,

Man that desert out there sure is fostering new reefers. It must be something in the water.

First things first--hold off on the livestock!!!

The snails are OK but you still have ammonia in your tank. It is probably why the tang met its maker and it still may claim your clown. If you can, I'd return the anemone. They are difficult to keep even by an expert and it's chances in a cycling tank are poor at best. It always amazes me that a LFS will sell one to somebody with a 3 week old tank.

Well now that the scolding is over here is a game plan. You didn't say how deep a bed you have in your tank. If the only sand you have is the 40 lbs of LS then you need a bunch more, probably about three times as much. Your goal is to get a 4" bed. You can use Southdown or other inert sand as you have a good start with the 40 lbs of LS you have.

I'd also be doing about 20% weekly water changes for the next five weeks. It appears you went through the algae cycle fairly fast. The water changes will help prevent an encore and reduce nitrate levels which may build up until you have an established DSB. If you are monitoring nitrate you can cut back on the size of the water change once the nitrate level remains fairly constant or decreases between water changes.

If the clown gets through this period, he is better off lonely than dead. A regal is not a good choice for only a 55. You want to add only smaller fish that don't require large amounts of swimming room. It will be a few more weeks before your ready to add much more so you can ask around on RC about what people have in similar sized tanks.

One last thing. If you can't return the anemone you want to feed it more than just brine. Small pieces of chopped scallops or clam are always good. Some DT is also in order. To increase the brine shrimp's nutritional value, if you hatch your own, you can feed the brine shrimp some DT too.

Raising brine shrimp and algae is always a great idea for any new tank. It is easy to do and provides homegrown food to feed your critters. I recommend that any newbie read the series by Frank Marini on the Breeders forum.
Home Grown Fish Food

Tell us how things go. We'll be pulling for you.

[Lofty]

Thank you so much for your info... I don't think I can return the aneome but maybe ther is some one in my area with an established tank who would be interested in adopting it.

As for the south down sand....If I already have the live sand in... would I have to remove everthing in the tank including the LR and LS and start with the southdown?? Or could I remove the rock...and put in the south down and mix it with the LS??(I have a large rubbermaid container which I could use so I dont start the cycle again) Also I would not want the clown, shrimp, anenome and plolyps to go through a southdown storm, would they be ok in the Rubbermaid if I moved my skimmer and powerheads to it?? I could also put my light on it as it has a plexiglass cover so I could just lay it over top. GAH!!! I need help!! And there goes my killer aquascaping) Here is a link to the forums where I posted pics of my tank before the addtions.

My Tank

[Lofty]

Ok... I took the rest of the day off so I could get started. Only problem...I can't find South Down Sand. The only stuff I could find is quick crete play sand which is sifted, washed and dried. Will this work or should I take it back?? I am waiting for reply to put this sand in. In the mean time I am removing the LR and LS in there now and relocating to the Rubbermaid for now. Wish me luck!!!

[BLUESMAN]

Lofty, Hey buddy....I got you covered! PM JHardman for the SouthDown sand. You will not find it locally, although I did hear one of the east side LFS buy some of "our" load. Do not put that Silican sand in, you will regret it. Get about three more bags of SD sand. John will charge you $12 a 50# bag. Yeah you should put your livestock in the tub for now with the skimmer and lts. PM me I'd like to get that Anemone...I have the right tank for it. When you're fully set up, I can get your a true BTA. Gee it's only 97 degrees today....gotta get a shirt on!!! Blue

[WaterKeeper]

Just kind of push your LS to one side. Then add the new sand and push the LS over the top. Any aragonite type sand is OK IMO. A fine grade of beach (silica sand) will do in a pinch.

WaterKeeper's theory that aragonite helps stabilize pH is just that--a theory. I think having the proper depth, around 4", supercede the other factors in setting up the proper tank environment.

Wave action on a real reef causes "sand storms" all the time. Most of the critters you have in your tank should survive.

Crystal---go over and hold Danial's hand. Whoops---Crystal is married.

[Lofty]

The argonite is $17 a 20lb bag at Petsmart.... at that rat I would have to throw down $120 to get 120 Lbs to add to my 40 lbs. But you say that the silica sand is ok... what is the difference between southdown and your everyday playsand you can get at a hardware store?

[Lofty]

Bluesman check your PM

[WaterKeeper]

Danial,

Someshere in this post I threw out a little WaterKeeper theory on the activity in a DBS. In my own theory of a DBS, an aragonite sand bed, calcium carbonate, neutralizes volatile organic acids formed in anaerobic regions of a DSB. This stops the decline of alkalinity in the tank and maintains a stable pH.

You must remember that this is only theory and that WaterKeeper's ideas are usually classed as pure "bunk" my most people at RC.

In fact, I've been known to have an unhealthy mental attitude and a fixation on nitrogen fixation.

[Lofty]

Well the problem is I am getting conflicting information about the sand. This sand that I bought does not say if it is silica sand or not but I am assuming it is. If you are saying silica will do then that is my option. I do not get paid untill the 31st and this tank has put me in the poor house untill then. I'd use one of my credit cards but I am refinancing my house

[Lofty]

OK..I got argonite. all I could afford and get from the LFS was 60 Lbs So that will make me a 100 Lb sand bed.

[Lofty]

Well it looks like about a 3" SB. I am gonna run a whisper filter on it to clear the cloudyness as soon as I get the new water in.

[NUBIANTANGLOVER]

WaterKeeper,
I enjoyed reading through your series of posts. I would like you to help me if you could by giving me your BEST advice:

This summer I saved and saved until I purchased my baby, my DREAM WORLD: a 175 Oceanic RR Show Bowfront. I got it from a RC member here who relocated and thus, did not have the space to house it. -I am extremely LUCKY as it is practically brand new & in excellent shape. With it, I received some very expensive/excellent items---which paid for the purchase itself. Although I am not new to saltwater---I have been successful with my 55 FOWLR, I have been reading many books and RC posts to further my knowledge on reefkeeping. I am a firm believer that Knowledge is Power! My plans are to turn my new "baby" into a REEF tank. The tank is 6 feet long and approx. 26- 28inches deep. I will be doing a 4" DSB with Southdown and I have a BioRocker Deluxe w/acrylic sump to serve as my filter. My question for you is could you please help me with a lighting situation. I also received free (2) 72" 160 watt per bulb VHOs with an Ice Cap 430. I realize that this is not enough wattage for my tank (reef speaking). But, it's a start. I would like to continue using VHOs and I want to add 3 additional VHOs with the purchase of an Ice Cap 660. This will allow me a total wattage of 800 watts. I want to know if this would be okay for me to have a "Reef World." I understand that MH are excellent for the reef. But, economically, I want to save, if possible. And, adding MHs would mean that I would need to pay to get a specially designed canopy for my 175 bow (as the current "cap" biult by Oceanic to outfit this system is made of a hard type of plastic and certainly not suitable for MHs.) Also, I don't want to "HANG" MH's from my celing as I have a 10 month old who is already fascinated by my 55 gallon and I do not want to risk the chance of ruining his eyes from constantly starring up at the MHs. Please tell me what you think. Although I am not new to saltwater---you can never get enough info in regards to upgrading to a REEF tank. Thanks. I LOVE MY NEW TANK---and I can't wait to start.

[tuckz]

i would like to ask, how do we actually tell rthe difference between all this types of sand/gravel
theres this crushed marbles which is whit and quite fine
and also how to tell the difference between aragonite and crushed corals?

[tuckz]

i'm also trying to start using DSB
but the prob is that i have a aquarium with fishs and corals now
if i use DSB now, how do i add the sand?
or even worse, how do i leave the water and stuff to let it cycle
i know we need toio keep it free from livestocks while cycling