Beginner's guide to Live Rock

[tpcjohann]

How is the tonga branch for filtration? does it do the job? i have 5.6 lbs of fiji and 3.4 of tonga branch in my 7 gal.. thanks

JOhann

[Radicaljbr]

Thanks for all the great knowledge....not sure if you are still answering questions, but if so, I was wondering if you had names of good places to buy LR from online...will be setting 105 gallon tank in about 3 weeks.

thanks
John

[CrystalAZ]

We are putting water in our tank now (yes, it did rain in the desert!)

I am anxious to hear more about algae!

Crystal

[blue streak]

THANKS!,great post.

[jpmcca01]

I am getting LR from someone else getting out of the hobby, how do you know if the rock is actually still "alive" if its not completely encrusted and doesnt have anything growing on it cept a little coraline? Also from pics I dont see any critters on them either. Any info would help.

[buiryn]

Great thread!

I'm planning on setting up a 125 gal tank in the next few weeks and this has helped a lot!

I would recommend reading the entire thread since there is a ton of information buried in there.

--buiryn

[pbs911]

This is a great thread.

I am about to fill my 90 gal with RO/DI water and am reading everything on LR and LS. I would like to do add both in segments over time, i.e 50lbs LR until cycle, then another 50lbs LR and LS. I would start with uncured LR at first and then more to partially cured hopefully avoiding die off on the LR and LS during the initial ammonia spike. It iwll also allow me to get some "better" pieces with the second addition. Does this sound like a good idea?

[Shoestring Reefer]

Sure, that's basically what I did. I added LS (5 lbs) with a cocktail shrimp, and LR (10 lbs) after the ammonia and nitrite were undectable. When the LR was added, the ammonia was only detectable for a couple of days-much shorter than the initial (LS) cycle. It was much lower, also. I thought I was testing wrong until I saw my nitrates were dropping off again, too.

For what it's worth, I put 10 lbs of live rock in my tank about 2 months ago, and it's still feeding the algae. It was shipped two-day shipping, and looked "pretty good" when it got here-lots of corraline, smelled good (didn't smell rotten), etc. I added it after I cycled with LS, and the algae blooms from the LS were done.

I don't have any fish yet, just a fighting conch and TONS of hitch hikers. I haven't fed my tank in months, and all my critters have multiplied and have NO problems finding food, judging by the amount of detritus, and the amount of algae I've harvested. I didn't scrub the LR when it got here, just put it in the tank, which is probably why there is so much food available.

[mistah]

Palmetto..! Amazing job.. extremely helpful thread ! My 1st tank will take shape this month (gave myself an xmas present) haha!

I'll know what I'm looking at when I'm at the LFS, and know if he's telling the truth or not! 9)

emredp: you mentioned that you were using a wet/dry filter, that would explain your high nitrates.. (also a new tank..give it sometime). The rock + DSB should be your ownly filter (apart a skimmer..)

*wow..* all these years reading is coming in handy! =)

thanks guys!
js

[mistah]

pbs911:

You can, but don't put any fish / critters in until your second batch cures. But I suggest you put in your 50lbs + live sand 1st, so whats on the rocks burries into your sand (making it live sand..)

Then after you can put another 50lbs.. but that'll maybe harm what came off your 1st batch .. Hmm..

just my 2cents. =)

[Medaka]

[Imaexpat2]

Incredible thread you started Palmetto!!! Thats was also nice for those of us that arent beginners, at least I got a few things out of it new. That Kaelini really rocks!!! I got about 240-260 lbs of that stuff so far and I have not been a bit disapointed, if fact I think its the best rock I have seen. What do you know about Lalo or Jakarta live rock? whats the scoop on that stuff? Curiosity is killing me.

[edshern]

in order to add diversity to an existing tank would you consider adding a some small amount of uncured rock to an existing reef tank?

[Imaexpat2]

edsherm

I am not really sure if I would want to do that. I personally would want to cure it in a seperate tank with heavy actinic lighting and pretty stiff water circulation. Bit thats just me. My resons for wanting to take that "route" is to prevent (hopefully) adding any non-desirables into my system such as Apitasia, Mantis shrimp, non reef safe crabs, snails and starfish.

Even by doing things that way you could still have what ever hanger ons that survive the curing process, still add a formidable amount of "additional bacteria" and some coralline algae to your system that wasnt there in your system before.

Maybe my line of thought is off base here, and someone can put a better perspective on this idea. But to date this is how I have done business and I feel like it has prevented me from having a lot of the head aches that reefers sometimes have. There is nothing quiet as special as having to basically tear down a tank to get a mantis shrimp out, or catch a unwanted crab! JMHO....

[llebcire]

Bump'age

[British Mike]

Excellent article, thanks for the use Darren. Are there any reef setup experts out there. I could do with an idiots guide on how to set up a reef system???

[Radicaljbr]

There are a lot of good books out there.

[Palmetto]

Originally posted by edshern
in order to add diversity to an existing tank would you consider adding a some small amount of uncured rock to an existing reef tank?

Sorry, edshern, somehow I missed answering your question!

When adding rock, it is always best to cure it outside the tank- even if it is a small amount going into a large, established reef. There is a risk of adding unwanted hitchhikers or some hidden dead thing that can foul your water.

Now, that is the CORRECT answer- but, you did say "would YOU consider adding...", and I don't always do what I know I ought to do.



I like to sprinkle a reef with VERY SMALL AMOUNTS AT A TIME of SMALL pieces of the freshest Live Rock I can find. It is simply a matter of calculated risk- I only do this when I think the rock I have is so fresh that there will not be much dieoff. I also only add SMALL pieces in this way- fresh Tonga branch with some macroalgae is one of my favorite decorations.

I do dip the rock in high salinity (1.030) water for about 10 minutes to run any hairy devils or smashers out of the rock.

Then, I decorate the tank with no more than a few lbs. or so of small pieces that smell like ocean and watch the ammonia levels carefully for the first couple of days. If the rock is REALLY fresh, you can often get corals or other things to live that you ordinarily wouldn't. I have found numerous brain corals, galaxia, zoanthids, and all sorts of other things when fishing through Ultra-fresh rock!

Attempting to put large pieces of uncured rock into an existing tank would be foolish IMO. Large pieces can hide a LOT of rotting stuff and look great on the outside. This is why I use branch for this instead of round pieces.

Sorry for the missed response, but I thought it was worth answering for the archives if nothing else.

Again, the safest bet is to always cure OUTSIDE your existing reef as we have described previously throughout this thread. I don't want to condone any of my bad habits!

[Rob A]

Darren,
Thanks so much for the time that you spent in answering all the questions. Again, this is such an awesome thread. I'm just now doing research on starting a SW tank and you have managed to answer all of the questions that I probably would have asked later. This is actually my first post here.

Thanks again,
Rob A

[newbiemarine]

I would love to get a clear answer on this one.
I don't really like those creep crawlies that come along with LR, and corals. If I get the LR from Fiji, or something similar, that had a lot die off, do I stand a better chance of getting it cc free? Is there any way to get it Critter free altogether? On the other hand I read that a lot of these worms and critters are good for the tank. Are they out by day? Are they visible? Do you see them crawling around by day? What kind of cc's are good for the growth of the tank? I hope that none of them are larger than a few inches !

[stevensmd]

those creepie crawlies are very good for your tank..some people actually try to purchase them..mainly the pods...for the most part, wait till the lights are out a few hours..that's when your tank will come alive.

[Palmetto]

Yes, those creepy crawlies are part of any healthy reef!

The worms, pods, and whatnots are all going to eat leftover food particles, as well as making babies that feed your fish and corals.

And, I hate to tell you this.... some of them are over a few inches.

However, most of the little buggers come out at night and you hardly notice their presence. (unless you dig through Live Rock for a living, then you notice them, um, OFTEN!)

After a time of observing your reef, you will become more fascinated and less squeamish about them. (or have a fish-only tank!)

[Medaka]

You could use dead/base rock if you don't want the critters...save allot of money to.

Of course every time you add a coral or even fish, you will probably introduce some type of critters into the tank..

There mostly nocturnal, but you will still see some of them out during the day...especially when you feed the tank.

The only things that grow really large are the worms...they can get to be several feet if they eat enough and live long enough. I think the biggest worm ever posted on reefcentral was about 7 feet. hehehe.

[newbiemarine]

Anyone have any pics of pods, and what worms are we talking about? I wanna have an idea if this is for me or not. If they are only nocturnal, then I'm not sure I mind so much. How about Fiji rock, which I find is not as 'alive' as other rock? Do they carry that much?

[stevensmd]

you want the pods..they are very good for your tank..if you ever have a Mandarin, you will have to have a very good supply of them. Your critters can indicate a healthy tank.. I like my bristle worms too...here is a good website that I refer to time to time.
dave
http://www.reefs.org/hhfaq/pages/mai.../faq_rock1.htm