Beginner's guide to Live Rock

[NeuroLarry]

Thid thread was hugely helpful to a newbie who is about 2 weeks away from ordering LR. many of my questions were answered but I still wonder if there is any advantage to ordering precured LR for a new tankother than the time factor? Should I expect more creatures on uncured LR? I'm anxious to get this thing up and running but am willing to take the time to do it right.

[RedTurq]

Is it ok to have live rock out of the water for certain amount of time like say during shipping? Is there a general rule on how long before it gets to a point where its no good anymore?

Thanks

[Palmetto]

Originally posted by NeuroLarry
Thid thread was hugely helpful to a newbie who is about 2 weeks away from ordering LR. many of my questions were answered but I still wonder if there is any advantage to ordering precured LR for a new tankother than the time factor? Should I expect more creatures on uncured LR? I'm anxious to get this thing up and running but am willing to take the time to do it right.

I am glad you have found this helpful!


A lot of what you will end up with depends on how well your LR may have been "cured" from the source you order it from. If there was good temperature, circulation, and water volume for the initial curing process, then you will end up with good "life" in your rock (if shipped properly of course!). Many holding tanks for curing LR end up as major amphipod/ copepod breeding grounds, so you may end up with more of these from the "cured" tanks.

Sometimes you get lucky with freshly imported rock, however, and get some interesting live corals or inverts that you may not ordinarily see. Fresh live rock is also the best way to start the cycle off on a new tank, IMO- although there will always be some die-off just from shipping that will also start the cycle going. I usually start a new system off with about 1/2 to 1/3 fresh, uncured rock- with the rest being fully cleaned and cured. This gives a good start to the cycle, and brings in a wide range of life- without stinking you out of the house!



Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

[Palmetto]

Originally posted by RedTurq
Is it ok to have live rock out of the water for certain amount of time like say during shipping? Is there a general rule on how long before it gets to a point where its no good anymore?

Thanks

Well, of course the least time out of water is best for the animals. That being said, I have seen rock packed for several days with wet newspaper to keep it damp that still had pods and worms coming out of it. I would try for overnight shipping whenever possible, but if you are buying from a reputable dealer that is packing well with wet newspaper or something I think 2-day shipping is acceptable.



Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

[guitarfish]

Palmetto - I bought rock online (a fiasco), it took ten days to arrive. I decided to put it in my already cured tank (I removed the fish). I got an ammo spike in 24hrs, followed by nitrite. After 4 days ammo & trites returned to zero and never came back. I've had fish in there over a month now, everyone is happy.

The rock is mostly dead, all the coraline algae turned white. I ended up buying some "critter kits" to add some life to it. My question is, what would it suggest to you, that it cured in 4 days? I ask because it sounds like it should have taken a couple weeks. Would it suggest there wasn't much life on the rock to begin with? This was Walt Smith aquacultered rock.

-Dave

[Palmetto]

I really don't know what to say, Dave. I have not messed with the aquacultured rock myself- but it makes sense that man-made rock would have fewer critters trapped deep inside than collected reef-rock.

Aquacultured rock has life that has started from the outside-in.

Collected rock has life that started from the inside-out- it grew into the shape that it is from something smaller.

My guess is that it would take a bit less time to "cure" aquacultured rock after shipping because of this, but again, I have not worked with the aquacultured rock.

Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

[newkie]

Great thread.

Someone asked if you used RO/DI for all these water changes when curing. I'm curious about this too. I considered it but ended up just filling up my curing tank with the garden hose. Figured the nutrients in my water were the least of my worries. But I'm curious what you think.

[black74]

Interesting and informative post Palmetto,

whats your take on seeding lace rock with LR. So far I have a 45 gl rubbermaind with a 200 wt heater a stong powerhaed and 1 inch of caribsea crushed coral with aragonite. I just trew in a plant grow light with 2 50/50 bulbs that I should be getting in a couple of days. Im also looking to buy my LR next week.

Any suggestions?

[seaofdunes]

great post, and i would like to thank palmetto for spending so much time here. Here is my scenario... I will be adding a few fish as well as some low-light corals. my question is this. I bought about 15lbs. LR from my LFS the other day. It was cured, and was the only thing in the tank. Four days later, today, my ammonia, and trite levels are 0. My rock seems pretty dead. some of the polyps have died, and the algae isn't growing. I am running a standard light though i plan to get a vho bulb to replace the 40w (its a 55 gal). When i go to buy more LR...

What should i look for on the rock?

If it is mostly white and beige is it bad?

also, are there specific corals that go with spcific LR and vice versa?

should i hold off on the fish until i add the LR? the corals?

what lighting is best for LR in a 55?

[seaofdunes]

also, what kinds of shapes should i use and where in the tank to build a scape?

[krish]

Hi,
When curing the uncured rock in say a kiddie pool, is it better
to let the rocks sit on a elevated surface, say egg crate on
supports. Then let the water from the pumps spray on the
rocks rather than soak them.
This will prevent the organisms from the ammonia spike, since
they are not soaked.

Any thoughts?

Btw, how do you handle those worms. I used to be immune
to those in my early years. I guess now my sensitivity levels
have changed

thanks
krish

[Palmetto]

Originally posted by newkie
Great thread.

Someone asked if you used RO/DI for all these water changes when curing. I'm curious about this too. I considered it but ended up just filling up my curing tank with the garden hose. Figured the nutrients in my water were the least of my worries. But I'm curious what you think.

I always use RO/DI water for all phases of the process. Perhaps that is being too cautious, but that is the way I have always done it.



Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

[Palmetto]

Originally posted by black74
Interesting and informative post Palmetto,

whats your take on seeding lace rock with LR. So far I have a 45 gl rubbermaind with a 200 wt heater a stong powerhaed and 1 inch of caribsea crushed coral with aragonite. I just trew in a plant grow light with 2 50/50 bulbs that I should be getting in a couple of days. Im also looking to buy my LR next week.

Any suggestions?

I am not a fan of the crushed coral substrate. I have found it very difficult to manage nitrates using CC, I suppose because food and detritus is so easily trapped. I use a combination of sugar-sized aragonite (Southdown) and Live-Collected Fiji and Caribbean sand about 1/2" deep as a top layer to provide sandbed fauna to get the sand crawlin'. Many of the soft-bodied worms and things that you want living in your sand to do cleanup duty thrive much better in the finer sand, and can be fun to watch from the side. (like an ant farm!) I usually use a DSB about 4"=6" deep (or even deeper on large tanks).

I do not personally use the lace rock, but I am a very picky LR person! I mix less expensive rock (Fiji) with more expensive rock (Buna Spiny branch, Kaileni, Tonga Specialty rock, Shelf, etc) to get what I am after, but I believe strongly in the biological filtration provided by the "real thing"! It is an expensive part of your reef, but it is the heartbeat of the whole system and not somewhere I cut corners for the most part. In very large configurations, I have ordered base grade or first grade Fiji to build the foundation, or used some concrete blocks that have been soaked for weeks. In smaller tanks, I use 100% LR for the filtration benefits.



Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

[Palmetto]

Originally posted by seaofdunes

What should i look for on the rock?



If it is mostly white and beige is it bad?

also, are there specific corals that go with spcific LR and vice versa?

should i hold off on the fish until i add the LR? the corals?

what lighting is best for LR in a 55?

Look for good coralline algae coverage, as well as small featherdusters or other signs of life. Any little live animals are a good sign, such as foraminiferans, worms, pods, corals, or other critters. Look for the shapes you are after such as arches, caves, etc- because all of the rock will eventually end up purple so you have to pick the shapes that fit your idea of how your reef should look.

Yes, usually mostly white and beige means mostly dead, although most rock turns white after curing because the coralline often bleaches during the curing process. It will turn purple again, but I still seek the pieces with the best looking coralline to setup new tanks.

It really doesn't matter what corals go with what Live Rock, although some of us reef geeks like setting up a theme tank using all Caribbean stuff or something like that.

DEFINATELY no fish or corals until after the full cycle. They will thank you for waiting!

I would say there is no one lighting that is "best" for LR, although I would say that actinic fluorescents grow coralline the quickest IME!




Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

[Palmetto]

Originally posted by seaofdunes
also, what kinds of shapes should i use and where in the tank to build a scape?

That is totally a personal preference. I like to make the high points at the back of the tank so that I don't get shadows. I like to leave some open sand areas for clams and other bottom-dwellers. If one side or the other gets more traffic (like a hallway on one side), I make the rockwork lower there so that you can look across more distance and get more viewing area from the places most convenient to view.

I do not fill the whole tank with a rock wall, preferring to leave natural breaks and open areas for fish to swim and to allow for good circulation. I also make sure to get some current BEHIND the rock with a good powerhead or something to keep dead zones from forming.



Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

[Palmetto]

Originally posted by krish
Hi,
When curing the uncured rock in say a kiddie pool, is it better
to let the rocks sit on a elevated surface, say egg crate on
supports. Then let the water from the pumps spray on the
rocks rather than soak them.
This will prevent the organisms from the ammonia spike, since
they are not soaked.

Any thoughts?

Btw, how do you handle those worms. I used to be immune
to those in my early years. I guess now my sensitivity levels
have changed

thanks
krish

I am not picturing what type of pumps you would be using to spray the rock. Many of the collection and curing facilities overseas use spray-bar methods to cure the rock without submerging them, so this concept is definatly sound. I cannot really picture a convenient way to recreate this effect in a kiddie pool- and it honesly sounds like more trouble than it is worth to me. However, if you come up with an interesting way to accomplish this, I am all ears!



Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

[Palmetto]

Sorry it took me awhile for some of the replies this time- we have had some family issues this past week that kept us away for awhile!

Thanks for all the positive response to this thread. I will be compiling this into a LiveRock FAQ- many of these are some excellent questions that I would not have thought of on my own! Keep 'em coming...



Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

[Uran]

I am just cycling my tank (started on 3rd May). How many days should i wait until i put in my live rock, and should I get cured or uncured? Also should I put it in 2 lots half each or all togeather, im guessing 2 lots

[Uran]

I think i am gonna put a prawn in.

[Palmetto]

Originally posted by Uran
I am just cycling my tank (started on 3rd May). How many days should i wait until i put in my live rock, and should I get cured or uncured? Also should I put it in 2 lots half each or all togeather, im guessing 2 lots

I put my Live Rock in immediately after the sand settles. That is what starts your cycle. Cured or uncured will work just fine, although I do like using at least partially uncured rock when starting a new tank because of the way it stimulates the cycle.



Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

[Palmetto]

Originally posted by Uran
I think i am gonna put a prawn in.

You really don't need a big stinky piece of shrimp to start your cycle- the dieoff that takes place on your Live Rock will achieve the same results.



Darren Walker
www.PalmettoReefs.com

[Kaos]

Great thread Palmetto!

It's nice to have all this info. in one place. I am also a big fan of experience so I like hearing this stuff from someone who has, and is, handleing this stuff every day. The descriptions of each rock helped me the most. The online stores or articles just give breif explanations and leave it at that. I completely agree with the mixing of LR to get better biodiversity. The ocean is made up of ALOT of different organisms that have very specific roles. The more of these you can put in your tank the better your chances are for success.

Just wanted to say thanks for sharing.

Later, Glenn

[Uran]

Great thnkx for your info, ill order some today.

[alkataz]

I have heard that u should not run your skimmer when u are using live rock to cycle your tank. What do u think about this?

[toddpolish]

from what I've read people go both ways on this one. I would say YES run the skimmer. get used to how it works. it may not take much outta the water at first, but it eventually will, don't worry.