Amphiprion percula "Onxy" (Onyx Percula Clown) Breeding Log! - Page 14

mwp · #**326** 12/26/2006, 09:49 PM

Actually Adam, I got to see Joe Lichtenbert's (RPI) hatching method and DO intend to implement a tile-like removable substrate scheme for my pair. It's definitely the better way to go from a productivity standpoint. It hasn't yet been done simply due to the holidays and a future wedding and work tying up my free time

I've decided to go for a wide variety of foods - Batch VI got SS-Strain rotifers instead of L-Strain rotifers as the tank was initially an experiment in creating a "larval soup" of copepod populations combined with various phytos and the Small Strain rotifers to see if it could be set up quickly in preparation for a smaller fish larvae (i.e. the Mandarins I've been trying to rear since April). When the clowns came 'round, they got the tank...it worked out well as I had almost 0 losses on the batch. Anyway, all prior batches were started on L-Strain rotifers and phyto.

As soon as they're able to, I started feeding Otohime A - so many of the clownfish breeders I've talked with have had SUPERIOR growout with this as a primary food source. What is lacking in Otohime are the various pigments needed to produce vibrant and deep oranges and reds, but these can be added in later on. I did stick with a lot of brine nauplii for this batch starting around day 7....I think with all our marine larvae variety of diet may help with overall "quality" of diet....not that far off from how we treat our broodstock. Granted, it's proven that clownfish don't need such intensive or varied nutrition and care, but trying these things out now will again be helpful when trying to rear the tiny larvae like the Mandarins.

mwp · #**327** 12/26/2006, 10:22 PM

12-26-06 - time for updates and some pictures!

Batch I - 87 days old now. When I returned home today I found one of them in the filtration...thought we had lost another one. It seems that the two largest (spotty and stripey) are fighting an aweful lot, and in the process it looks like they may be causing irrepairable damage to their mouths, causing the "pug face" look that can be found in some tank raised clowns. I've read about this, especially with Maroon Clowns, and in looking at the pictures now it definitely seems that this fighting has taken a toll, especially on spotty. Time will tell if this is "temporary" or "permenant" damage that they're causing to each other, but the bottom line is that in looking at these recent photos, there does appear to be damage which is likely directly the result of the constant mouth tugging between these two fish.

Here are the most recent pics of Batch I!

Spotty's left side

Spotty's Right Side, Stripey's Left Side

Again, Spotty's left side

Runty's left side, again Spotty's right side

Runty's right side partially in view, Stripey's right side, Spotty's left side

Spotty's right side

Batch III - Batch III is now 60 days old. The most interesting observation, especially between batches I and III, is that with both batches consisting of 3 siblings, in each batch there are 2 larger fish that constantly battle and 1 smaller fish that is almost completely left alone. Here's a current look at the 2 larger fish in Batch III.

I guess the biggest thing I'm learning so far on the Onyx Percs is that raising small batches *may* result in babies doing damage to each other early on that can't be fixed (as can be the case with Maroons)...we'll see how Batch VI progresses...(maybe an update on them later). If what's happening in Batch I occurs again in Batch III, I think we'll have learned something useful (i.e. you have to keep them crowded). I *MAY* try to put a stop to some of this by mixing Batch III into Batch I...we'll see.

That's it for now!

Matt

mwp · #**328** 12/26/2006, 10:53 PM

The 2nd Half of the Updates

Batch VI - almost 14 days old now and still looks like the losses amoung the initially collected larvae may ahve been very small (i.e. 5-10%). We're definitely through metamorphosis. The larvae had to go with one daily feeding of BBS from Friday through Monday, and only this evening on Tuesday got a feeding of Otohime (actually just got a 2nd feeding a moment ago) - they take the Otohime with eagerness. During the once-per-day feeding routine over the holidays, it appears they have entirely decimated the large population of benthic copepods that were in the tank. They all looked on the thin side this evening, but otherwise appear fine. Hopefully they managed to get all the copepods that were living in the tank to tide them over and we won't see any major negative effects on the grow out of this batch.

Batch VII - as suggested earlier on, Batch VII was left to hatch on it's own and end up as tank-feed. No babies running around the broodstock tank today....Batch VII is defunct and presumed to have hatched on Saturday based on how the eggs were developing before we left.

The plan for now is to focus on Batch VI and also focus on getting a tile or slate pair for the broodstock (parents) to spawn on. It is commonly suggested that making alterations such as this to a broodstock tank can put spawning off for weeks or months...with the good sized batch of larvae we have in Batch VI, I'm OK with disrupting the parent's routine for a while...I'm in no need of more baby clownfish at the moment.

FWIW,

Matt

Kathy55g · #**329** 12/26/2006, 10:56 PM

Nice pix. I've never seen the mouth problem you describe. I guess ocellaris don't fight like that.

Anything special you do to get such lovely photos?

Kathy55g · #**330** 12/26/2006, 10:59 PM

I put a tile in the tank for my broodstock. They ignored it and spawned on the rock right on schedule.... Perhaps they will change over to it later.

mwp · #**331** 12/26/2006, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kathy55g
I put a tile in the tank for my broodstock. They ignored it and spawned on the rock right on schedule.... Perhaps they will change over to it later.

Whatever tile or slate I end up with I plan to place it leaning right over their current spawning site in an attempt to FORCE them to accept it and use it. However, Mama has been known to move a gorgonian around even when it was SUPERGLUED in place, so I'm not 100% sure it will work out...I could see her moving the new substrate out of the way

Regarding the mouths...notice how they're white and raw on spotty? That was a more recent development in the last week or two I think...unless I have actual MOUTH FUNGUS running around. However, between all the roughhousing (it's literally CONSTANT) and the most recent "jumping" of one of them into the filter unit, I think this mouth issue is directly related to the aggression, and therefore I hope that with the large numbers in Batch VI it's not a problem (hoping the large numbers will disperse any aggression, vs. the focused & constant aggression occuring between the larger 2 fish in Batch I and Batch III)...we'll see...

Matt

mwp · #**332** 12/26/2006, 11:05 PM

One last "BTW" regarding Batch I - I just really noticed that the black coloration is starting to come in on the tail and anal fins on them...man Percs develop their coloration really slow. I'd say these fish are getting close to 3/4" on the larger 2.

Kmiec123 · #**333** 12/26/2006, 11:53 PM

Matt, I used a 4 inch Tara cotta(clay pot) drip tray that is round. I put it right over the site as you mentioned right after a hatch and it never phased them. Maybe a one day delay if that. I haven't been getting great turnouts with air and light issues, but my hope is the next batch.

Hope this helps...Carl

mwp · #**334** 12/27/2006, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kmiec123
Matt, I used a 4 inch Tara cotta(clay pot) drip tray that is round. I put it right over the site as you mentioned right after a hatch and it never phased them....Hope this helps...Carl

Carl, I DID notice that earlier on in the thread - I think the reason it worked was that your surface was perfectly flat and vertical, making it easy to simply hang a "replacement" where necessary.

My percs chose that wonky spot under the Frogspawn coral..no easy means of "hanging" or simply covering...whatever goes there will be more on an angle and more flat than what they're used to, and based on how Mama treats ANY new introductions, that piece of slate (or tile) is in for a butt-kickin'!

Good luck with your next batch!

Matt

mwp · #**335** 12/27/2006, 01:21 AM

Just wanted to add a couple links to this thread.

First up, Embroyguy's concurrent attempts with his Onyx / Picasso Perc Pair - http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=974451

Kerusso316 is working with Onyx Percs from Rod's Reef - http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=986271

Next Up, some threads from RareClownfish:

Color Development in Onyx Percs - http://www.rareclownfish.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89

Another Thread with info on Color Development from Rod - kinda duplicates some pics posted in this thread here - http://www.rareclownfish.com/forums/...read.php?t=767

Another Onyx Perc Growout Thread - pic at the beginning of the thread is from May at 2 months, most recent pix at end of thread are End of December, 9 months age (wow they grow slow!) - http://www.rareclownfish.com/forums/...read.php?t=361

The thread where we discussed the varient/locatly of "Percula" that my Onyx Percs most likely are. http://www.rareclownfish.com/forums/...read.php?t=716

One last note and then I'm off to bed - I was looking through this thread and noticed that the VIDS on the very first page STILL aren't working - I think it's a server issue but will do my best to get them working in the next day or two (because I watched them again and they are just as cool as when I tried to post them the first time around!)

G'night!

Matt

mwp · #**336** 12/29/2006, 05:40 PM

12-29-06, 4:30 PM - We were GOING to have another spawn...I walked in on the female rabidly cleaning their usual nest site. OH NO YOU DON'T! I just got 2 pieces of red slate yesterday to try as removeable spawning substrate. Well, I made a mad dash into the tank, totally ticked them off, and well, they'll probably not spawn tonight, or maybe they will as the female's ovipositor was already down (see the pics).

FWIW,

Matt

mwp · #**337** 12/29/2006, 05:57 PM

FINALLY, got the Vids working on my server, all the way back to 9-22-06 for these vids!

http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoree...ning_site.html

http://www.cichlidrecipe.com/nanoree..._spawning.html - had to do some color adjustments (original is really dark), so the whole thing will load (about 3 MB) before it starts playing back.

FWIW,

Matt

mwp · #**338** 12/29/2006, 07:47 PM

12-29-06, 6:35 PM - we have Batch VIII! - so the slate...um yeah, that really worked well (read very sacarstically). Knowning how adamently "Mama" kept knocking down the gorgonian (which is now on it's last legs), even when superglued to the live rock, I wasn't expecting any miracles. Of course, Mama's determination to spawn ON THE ROCK, not the SLATE, won out. She literally PUSHED THE SLATE off the live rock so it's now standing straight up into the water column, rooted in the sand.

I'd say it's time for "Plan B", but there ISN'T A PLAN B!

Looks like the slate is coming out tonight

FWIW,

Matt

mwp · #**339** 12/29/2006, 09:33 PM

1008 eggs! - I guess Mama wasn't happy with just pushing the slate out of the way...she wanted it GONE from their territory!

Same pic as above, but the usual photoshop egg counting method...each color shift is 100 eggs, with the last 8 black dots on the right being what put us past the 1000 mark.

I'm going to try to take a picture of the nest every night to show the egg development over the next 7 days...our planned hatching date is 1-07-07!

Matt

EMBRYOGUY · #**340** 12/29/2006, 11:03 PM

excellant matt, how are you catching them? are you still using a snagger or transfering.

my batch is a day ahead of yours now

it seems our pair hatch very closely.

Kmiec123 · #**341** 12/30/2006, 12:21 AM

Wow 1008.. That's awesome. I think I read the placement should happen immediately after hatch not just before spawn. I know you had time issues. My on guess on what to do is maybe a 4x4 piece of Tara cotta and drill a couple of hole in it at the edges and use nylon ties(zip strips) to secure it to the rock. That's all I can think of to see if it works after this hatch. A good turn out with this 1000 should keep your tanks filled for a while so even if the are delayed so be it...Just some thoughts Matt, hope this helps..Carl

mwp · #**342** 12/30/2006, 12:45 AM

Yup, the issue really is placement and timing. This next batch I may build a modified collector for, not sure yet. There's really no easy way to secure stuff to their spawning site...doing the zip tie thing - what about "removing" the tile (BTW, wasn't able to find any terra cotta tiles here, only ceramics). The "long tail leaning slate" was the best removeable substrate I could quickly come up with. I think whatever goes in place will have to be VERY securely fastened...Mama did this with the gorgonian for MONTHS before she finally left it alone.

I have a feeling that by hatching time, the # of eggs will diminish by 50% or more (thus I'm curious to take the daily pictures of the nest).

Embryoguy, your's take 8-9 days to hatch, right? With the last 2 or 3 going at 7 days, I'm expecting next Friday, so maybe we'll be ahead then!

As far as trying yet another percula batch, I *may* just do that. If I move Batch VI next Wednesday, I'd move them probably into the GBG's larval tank...I think the tank could handle more than it's 20 current residents, and since the gobies feed on the bottom anyway, there's a dual purpose rearing situation (clownfish get main feeding, gobies get leftovers...).

Yup, this is starting to sound like a plan for many more clownfish...just really wish they had left the tile where it was.

One last note - I'm seriously considering moving Batch III in with Batch I to help diffuse aggression. I'm worried that it's a risky proposition at this point as 2 month old vs. 3 month old, and only 3 of each...aggression could be fierce...
Matt

mwp · #**343** 12/30/2006, 01:24 AM

Batch VI - a quick update - the water was smelling FUNKY and the ammonia alert had officially risen into the alert level, so they're getting a 50% water change or so. 17 days old at this point...was finally able to get a better picture as maybe half of them were congregating by the front of the tank (lights went out, but ambient room lights are still on).

MP

EMBRYOGUY · #**344** 12/30/2006, 09:06 AM

matt, what are you talking about. ours look exactly alike

mwp · #**345** 12/31/2006, 03:46 AM

Mine just always look skinny to me...no fat bellies at all.

Batch VIII update - 12-29-06, just before midnight - shot this latest picture of the eggs, a bit over 24 hours old, so basically 1 day post-laying...6 days pre-hatch (if my estimate is correct).

And tonight's headcount? Roughly 901...

FWIW,

Matt

Kmiec123 · #**346** 12/31/2006, 10:45 AM

This is cool..Good idea Matt. As far as the Tara Cotta, I used a 4 In. Flower pot base pan that was Tara Cotta from HD for $1.50. I do used the Zip Strips and just snip to move and replace with new upon transfer of eggs. You can also consider braking up a tile to it into your spot better. Just some thoughts and best of luck..Carl

mwp · #**347** 12/31/2006, 03:56 PM

Batch I (92 days) and Batch III (65 days) - the big news is that today, I moved Batch III out of their breeder net in the seahorse tank and into Renee's 6 gallon mushroom tank with the 3 from Batch I. All of Batch I is vibrantly more orange than Batch III. The largest 2 from Batch III are larger than the runt (Runty) in Batch I. The smallest of Batch III ("Runty Jr."?) is VERY small...he kinda reminds me of how big the juvies from Batch I were when I placed them into the 6 gallon. while I'm not worried in the slightest about the larger 2 from Batch III, Runty Jr. may be in for a rough time (i.e. all these new corals that could eat him). Pictures in a minute

Matt

mwp · #**348** 12/31/2006, 04:38 PM

"Runty Jr." - the runt from Batch III

MP

Kmiec123 · #**349** 12/31/2006, 09:03 PM

ool...Big color differance. Neat, I guess you are what you eat..Or at least that color.

mwp · #**350** 12/31/2006, 09:42 PM

Now the interesting part is that pretty much these were fed the same foods, especially once they could eat them. Environmental factors (i.e. water quality, lighting etc..) may have actually played more of a role in Batch III's coloration development to this point.

Batch VIII - 48 hours post spawn, 5 days remaining to hatch! Tonight I managed to count 924 eggs...so obviously I either overcounted tonight, or undercounted yesterday.

Little Man defends the nest...

48 hours or so post spawn...

The photoshop count is 924 tonight:

Happy New Year!

MP