Cryptic Fuge in the sump?

ECEKatko · #1 07/05/2006, 06:02 PM

Hey all,
I have a NanoCube 24DX, and I'm still not done changing the filter area. I've been thinking about a fuge in the sump area, it just seems a natural place for a tiny one, but I've also been thinking about the light. I know that a lot of people that have cryptic fuges have two fuges, one with light for macroalgae and one for the cryptic area. What do you think about turning the middle area of the sump into a cryptic, without the lighted fuge anywhere? I'd then try to colonize it with sponges and featherdusters, maybe add a little bit of some chaeto for an area for pods to grow. Does this sound like a doable idea, a cryptic fuge without a lit one? I'm thinking about taking out the dividing wall between the middle and right chamber, and just using a filter sock or something over the pump intake to make the fuge a little larger. Sound good?

ECEKatko · #2 07/05/2006, 11:54 PM

Any thoughts at all on this?

noschmo · #3 07/06/2006, 04:49 PM

Yeah, where did you get this word "cryptic"?

DarkXerox · #4 07/06/2006, 07:02 PM

Yeah I've only seen one cryptic fuge in person and it was on a 200G+ tank. From what I heard, it needs to remain pretty much dark and have relatively low flow going through it. I think Steve Tyree runs one on his tanks and might actually sell some of the sponges and tunicates that these need. But I am not sure if you will really see any benefit from it.

Your best bet would be to run a chaeto chamber to help out with the phosphates and nitrates if they are an issue.

ECEKatko · #5 07/06/2006, 09:14 PM

I've seen a couple of tank profiles and Q&As on wetwebmedia about totally dark refugia, but they don't really deal with how to go about doing one or when to use it. That's where I got the word cryptic. I was considering a chamber for chaeto, but wondering how much light I'd have to put over the chamber. I'm thinking it wouldn't need a ton since it doesn't have to use up the nutrient load of a large tank, but unsure exactly how much it would need. Any thoughts on that? I was also considering doing one of the back chambers as a cryptic and one as a chaeto chamber.

Agu · #6 07/06/2006, 10:31 PM

I have a ten gallon with an AC 300 filled with live rock rubble that's unlit. The top of the rubble gets light but basically it's dark, similar to the cryptic zone refugium that Tyree advocates. IMHO Tyree is on to something that isn't popular in the hobby.

ECEKatko · #7 07/06/2006, 11:00 PM

How's that area working out for you? I know it won't do the same as a macroalgae fuge, but does it do some good for your tank?

Agu · #8 07/10/2006, 10:05 PM

Easiest tank I've ever had. The live rock, a 1/2 DSB (the aquaclear pushed the sand to the back until I added coarser substrate to the front) and the cryptic zone are all the filtration on the tank. When I do weekly 1 gallon waterchanges I pour the makeup water in the AC cryptic fuge and flush out all kinds of detritus. Corals always look great the next day

.

However it's not all fun and games. I just noticed two small spots of nuisance algae. Might be because the only herbivore died a year ago. I suspect the turbo snail starved to death btw. Next time I'll add an astrea so it doesn't deplete it's food supply.

Krypticol · #9 07/13/2006, 05:08 AM

i've read Steve Tyree's book "The Enviromental Gradient" all about cryptic sumps....great idea, but I feel the back of a nano might not be the best place for one. I do feel that some cryptic sponges in the dep parts of the back chambers filled with live rock could certainly help more the hinder, especially when running skimmerless, and I'd recommmend a air bubbler back there to keep the proteins disolved for the sponges to ingest. Check out his book...Great, Unpopular Theory!!!!

Reefer Dude · #10 07/17/2006, 09:49 PM

I am thinking about doing a cryptic sump too, however I planned on using the front of a 24G nano to do it. I thought it would be something experimental and fun to try. What is Steve Tyree's website, does anyone know?

ECEKatko · #11 07/18/2006, 02:07 AM

Here's his website, at least the stuff about the cryptic zones.

http://www.dynamicecomorphology.com/degradientmenu.htm

I'm thinking that I'd like to do this and see how it works out in the tank, just in the back of the nano. I think I'd have to rig it up as no sand in the zone, though, if I did it in the middle of the back, as I want to. All the water flow goes up through that middle section, so I guess I'll probably end up just filling it with LR and sponges/bivalves/whatever else is in that package he sells. Should be interesting to see how it goes.

Reefer Dude · #12 07/18/2006, 01:25 PM

Well I have been thinking about the whole cryptic tank for about five years now, and with my current setup I have an extra 24g tank that I can plumb into the main tank via a very small power head (the low flow rate) and keep it dark as it has a black cover and a black back and a dark corner. What I really want to know and this may be something that I need to track Steve down and ask him, but what would the benefits be over a fuge. I know Steve has had luck keepin SPS without a skimmer, that is not my goal but I would like to not use as big of a skimmer on my setup.

Krypticol · #13 07/28/2006, 12:58 AM

the benefits are the sponges and tunicates ingest proteins as well as i believe some nitrates nitries ammonia, and detritis that is fine enough, combine with a good amount of feather dusters and time to grow you should be able to take the skimmer off line, but you need anough space for them to grow, as well as time and condition to alow them to grow a large healthy colony to fully consume the tanks wastes.
apparently a large enough well set up system will begin to develop interesting zooplankton colonies not ususally found in typical Berlin type system. and Steve had several setups that he never or very rarely put any addition food into. Coral was fed by light and zooplanton/phyto and feather dusters fed by fish, algae eaters wastes and coral slime, and sponge/tunicates fed on liguified wastes. Very interesting stuff, can't wait to buy my own house so I can develop a big tank setup with this style, as i feel it provides that "scientific" display feel

skylsdale · #14 08/02/2006, 10:31 AM

Glad to see this pop up again. It seemed to be gaining a bit of momentum a few years ago...then just suddenly disappeared. I'm getting quite a decent sponge population in my 15 gal and was recently thinking about incorporating something similar...or maybe making the entire display 'cryptic.'

Reefer Dude · #15 08/02/2006, 10:47 AM

Is there a size ratio to the main tank to make a cryptic system work. I have a really small tank, about 18g, would that be too small for a setup like this. I like the idea and the starter packs are not all that bad. I could do rock work in a way that not a lot of water flow would get in.

Reefer Dude · #16 08/02/2006, 10:48 AM

Also, do you need a sand bed in a tank like this, or could you go bare bottom?

Krypticol · #17 08/07/2006, 01:10 AM

he stayed bare bottom on most, but i think it could factored in without a problem.
I just got the go ahed to setup a new tank from my girl, and I'm rereading the Enviromental Gradient now, I think I'll try to recreate one of the no plumbing 3 section tanks he describes in there. using circular flow and distinct zonal separations.
I just dig the science project feel of it!