Tunze Streams on timers (on/off cycle)

[Gary Majchrzak]

who has done this and how long do they last

[Conesus_Kid]

Based on some of your posts as of late, I get the feeling that you're experimenting with flow in your aquarium.

I know little to nothing about electronics, but the Tunze multicontroller does have two interval functions for wave action: on/off and alternating operation of pump capacity.

http://www.tunze.com/149.html?&L=1&C..._tunzeprod_pi1
I don't know if the electronic controller turns the pumps on and off "differently" than something like a Red Sea wavemaker would. Perhaps one of our electronics dudes on the forum could help out here.

Is John's Koralia 4 still kicking at MO? I remember he told me it being switch on/off quite frequently with the wave timer. When I was there, I didn't hear the pump rattle at all. (His Koralia was MUCH cleaner than mine are !)

FWIW, you could purchase several of the Koralias and a wave timer for the cost of one Tunze stream pump, but I'm not sure what your desired outcome for flow is.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Originally posted by rvitko
The 6080's would be a bit more static but provide acceptable flow. You can't run them on a wavemaker but can switch them at 1 hr intervals on a timer.

Roger Vitko is the Tunze USA guy. I've talked to him on several occasions.

Apparently certain (all?) Tunze have a centrifugal clutch mechanism that is damaged by frequent start and stop operations, yet this would seem to contradict Rogers post above.

I know that DrTango has been running a Tunze 6080 on a timer. I don't know how it's held up, though.

Koralias are nice but they're not in the same league.

[rjrobert]

I've got several 6201's on an aquasurf program. When researching different programs their has been concensus from the community and from Tunze that you don't want to shut them off and on. We keep our low points at 30% which is barely moves the prop but doesn't stop it.

I know that doesn't answer your question but I really like the aquasurf concept. I have several different programs to simulate tide in / tide out / storm / Low flow and wave.
You can set each one to one tenth of a second so you can really play around with the flow and customize to your tank and you can adjust as areas get "filled in" with new growth. This is nice for people (like me) who have new tanks setup that don't need all the pumps running full out since their is little resistance in the tank due to it being new and not alot in their yet. However when the tank becomes more mature their is also not a need to resolution new flow hardware. Simply adjust the programs the pumps are running on.
I know it's not for everyone as the Tunze stream 6201's are expensive and adding Aquacontrollers and Aquasurfs make it that much more expensive but for those with bigger tanks and understanding spouses (i.e. big spenders) I truly believe it is the best you can do at this time in the hobby.

I for instance have 4 6201's. I have them coordinated with the moon cycle portion of the AquaController. I simulate Tide in and Tide out. When not in Tide mode's the pumps run what I call a nonresidence wave mode. Basically the pumps go from 100% out put to 30% out put. They run for 1.5 seconds at high and .9 seconds at low. This normally would start to form a resident wave but Instead of oscillating the sides back in forth (2 6201's on each side of the tank) they are offset but 5 seconds which forces the pumps to push into each other creating a fairly random flow.

Anyways just IMO I still only have this tank up for less than a year so far but it seems to be working so far.

[Gary Majchrzak]

thanks for posting that info, Rob.

The way that my (peninsula) aquarium is set up I'll always have returns at the far end pushing water to the drains next to the wall. This sets up a nice gyre effect (circular water movement) throughtout the aquarium. (The fast moving laminar flow itself sets up random chaotic water motion as it hits rockwork and corals.) The problem I'm having is reversing the grye- or at least breaking it up in order to provide some flow in the opposite direction. To give you an idea of the water flow I'm trying to disrupt :when placing a MagDrive 7 on the opposite side from one of my water returns the Mag7's output only reaches into the middle of the aquarium before getting turned around. Granted, a Mag7 is only 700 GPH and your Streams are pushing much more than that, but I just don't see how any Tunze Stream model can overcome movement from my water returns (unless I alternate my returns on/off, which isn't a possibility unless I remove the penductors and install an 'Ocean Motion' device).
I don't know- I guess I'm dreaming out loud. I can't afford expensive mistakes.

[rjrobert]

So just thinking out loud on this one.
Not sure what the flow rate your getting from your returns are. I think you have an Iwaki 100 so I'm going to estimate about 1300gph
The 6201's are about 5000gph so they should be able to work against the return up until a few inches from the returns. I would have to see the tank to really understand exactly where the returns to make a more educated discussion.
Curiosity, what about using a surge device instead of a powerhead? That wopuld let you keep the cirular flow patern but would give you a more random choatic surge that you could time based on flow to the surge holding container

[drtango]

Gary-

I've got two of the non-controllable Tunzes, 6080 and 6020. I've got them on timers, switching on or off every couple of hours. No issues with this so far--I guess its been about 4-5 years.

The 6080 easily pushes water from one end of a 180 to the other, and can compete with eductor flow, though you'll always have the "zone of turbulence" somewhere in the middle of the tank. You might recall "Bombers" origional barebottom system; he had eductors at both ends and shifted flow weekly via manual valves.

My OM device is no longer part of the system, as the mechanical driveshaft stripped after years of eductor backpressure. Paul no longer fabricates driveshafts, and I'm not up for shelling out more money for the magnetic drive which I doubt will work with eductors.

So...my returns have gone back to low-tech, basically PVC manifolds at both ends with flow directed towards the bottom of the tank where there were dead spots.

A tunze-alternative is one of the Maxi-Jet mod kits, with some very clever mounting solutions. These can likely go on a cheap wavemaker, and I'll bet you've got several Maxis sitting around. See reefs.org current issue for some good reviews. A couple of these will push 2400 gph back at the eductors, can sit on the same magnetic mount, and can be directed MUCH easier than the Tunze.

John

[Gary Majchrzak]

thanks for that info, John. I was concerned that Tunzes might not hold up long term with being switched on and off.

Originally posted by rjrobert
So just thinking out loud on this one.
Not sure what the flow rate your getting from your returns are. I think you have an Iwaki 100 so I'm going to estimate about 1300gph
The 6201's are about 5000gph so they should be able to work against the return up until a few inches from the returns. I would have to see the tank to really understand exactly where the returns to make a more educated discussion.
Curiosity, what about using a surge device instead of a powerhead? That wopuld let you keep the cirular flow patern but would give you a more random choatic surge that you could time based on flow to the surge holding container

Keeping it (fairly!) simple is one of my priorities, so a surge device is not part of my plan. I like the fact that some of my water moving devices are on a separate system inside the aquarium (redundancy. It's proven reliable as recently as last summer when the caretaker let my main pump run dry yet the in-tank powerheads kept water circulating inside my aquarium and everything was OK .)
My goal with moving water is to get the whole water mass in motion. Random and chaotic stuff will take care of itself. (I never use wavemakers on a quick on/off cycle.) After I get the aquarium water mass moving in one direction for several minutes (hours?) I like to to reverse it (if possible!).
Thanks for all the discussion so far.
This is a challenging subject but it's very important.


factoid: did you know that tides in the Pacific are very different than those in the Atlantic?

[Gary Majchrzak]

searching elsewhere I found this posted by Roger:

On Off cycles will not destroy the pump per se. The danger is - well first some technical details. From a physics stand point it is very difficult to make a mag drive prop pump. The propeller of course pulls forward pulling the magnet out of place and stopping the pump. The solution is to use a centrifugal side brace brake mechanism as our pumps do. The brake shoes can be broken by a wavemaker because they do not get time to retract and for the pump to run properly, they are always in a state of working to correct the start up pressures. If the pump is locked up and not spinning no water is pumped through to cool the motor. In the long run this will ruin the thermostatic switch and could ruin the pump but the switch has a 100,000 cycle life. It is most likely that a wavemaker will ruin the brake shoes only and possibly cause some damage to the magnetic drive assembly.

so this answers my question...

[rjrobert]

If you do find a way to alternate your flow in your situation I/we would love to hear it. It seams like a simple engineering issue but doing it low cost with hobby grade equipement makes it pretty difficult. I had one idea while I was driving today but I would have to try it before I could probably even explain it properly

[Capt_Cully]

I've got mine in each corner angled at 45deg toward center. I have them on alternating pulse.

IYO do you think a longer interval would be more beneficial than a shorter blast type? In other words I've been doing the pulse method to creat a more chaotic flow. Should I slow it down to try to influence the water mass' movement in one direction or another??? (not sure if that makes any sense?)

[Gary Majchrzak]

I'm very hesitant to recommend anyone change something that's working for them

[Capt_Cully]

and believe me, I fear change! Except water changes. Sticking with the 30gal/week. Fish look like their floating in air today. Too soon to tell if it's workin for the corals.

[KurtsReef]

Gary, slightly off topic...but you had asked a question about the Vortech and I cannot find the thread, it was about how far down the pumps can be. I had the top of mine around 4 1/2 " from the top of the water without issue however put my closed loop back on a timer and found when the closed loop was not running the difference in water flow was pretty tremendous. A lot of splashing coming up from the Vortech so I moved them today down to around 6" under water and that seems to be fine.

[Gary Majchrzak]