LFS prices are outrageous

[Automag928]

First off I'd like to say I try to support my good LFS. I believe the little local guys should be rewarded with my business by providing a good service, even if it costs a few dollars more however, I was in there today and my jaw dropped. I was going to get an additional powerhead and their price on the maxi-jet 600 was $32!!! The price on the Kent Marine Scraper 24" was $22 for the non metal version. Just checking an online vendor without shopping around, I found the same maxijet for 15, and the scraper for 15. I know that online is usually cheaper, but I didnt realize prices locally were THAT high. Is it like this everywhere?

[Breaker4show]

Most places in New Orleans are like that ! Rick's Reef is probably now my favorite LFS ! His cost arent that high either ! I bought my Mag 7 from him for $75 instead of $65 shipped, because I want him to stay open ! lol He always listens to quesitons and gives basically the same advice I read from online ! Probably the best LFS I have seen in awhile !

[surferdude141]

my lfs is also like that. all of their goods and livestock are reasonably priced except the power heads. a maxi jet 1200 for 50 bucks!!!!!!!!! i cant believe it. im not buying my powerheads there! im going to buy everything else there.

[prof10000]

LFS usually make their money from dry goods. Many are stuggling to survive with with competition from online vendors.

I would love to support my local stores more than I do but it is almost always cheaper to buy online.

Dave

[Putawaywet]

Sorry to say, I'm just about buying all my dry goods online. It's just way to cost effective not to. I do however, still purchase livestock locally, as I prefer to see the animals before buying them. Besides, too many horror stories about shipping livestock for me to take a chance.

Just the other day I was at my LFS and checking out a Kent Aquadose. Unfortunately, I neraly choked on the $32.00 price tag. I don't mind kicking out a few bucks for overhead and mark up, but I refuse to bend over for a couple bucks worth of plastic.

Brett

[eums]

some LFS have good prices, one by my house has live rock @2.25-2.50 a pound. and another that i went to today sold me a green stag colony for $20 thats cheaper than buying a frag from a online vendor. i turned the colony into 8 frags and am going to trade them out and keep 2.

[laddy00]

I think as far livestock prices go at LFS comapred to local vendors is a lot harder to compare than drygoods. West coast prices << east coast prices so it benefits some more to order livestock online. As far as drygoods go I can't support my LFs when a bucket of IO salt id $79 when I can get it for like 35 online and sometimes get free shipping.
i'm highly biased because I think the only real LFS near me was voted worst in NC, I only get food from them.

[Schism]

Mine is also insane on price. I basically buy nothing there now. WHen I bring in corals for them I tell them I want trade, but I want them to sell it for DIRT cheap. They try but their ways are strong. I brought in three colonies of montipora digitata, about 6" tall, 2-3" diameter from top looking down, and they are selling them for $16 each. I was hoping they'd try $5 each so their terrible lighting wouldn't brown them out before someone bought them. Needless to say, they are still there and brown.
I do comparison along these lines. THey don't carry the good stuff, so I look at a seaclown for $100-120 and then look at the used euro reef I picked up for $225 shipped. Ummm tough choice but I aint buying a skimmer at the LFS . Then I look at the salt. They get $18.99 per 50 ga bag of IO, and petsmart with free shipping is $34.99 for 4 bags. Umm again I'm going online. I would love to support my lfs, but they pay almost the same I do from their supplier as I do online. They have to chance really, at least for knowledgable consumers.

[Kites315]

The problem with LFS is that what they can get whole sale prices is not to much more than what is online. So for them to stay open, they have to mark it up. But i do know the price difference is hard to justify, and many custermers also expressed that to.

[Puffer Daddy]

Imagine a Mag350 for something like 260.00. LOL!!! I nearly had a heart attack!..needless to say, they had to clean the Isle after I left!!!!!

[jan_dman]

Mag350 for $260?!?!? LOL....that's insane!

[DJPB]

A LFS here has a Domino Damsel on SALE for ONLY $24.99. Geez what a deal

[gcarroll]

LFS's wonder why they are loosing business. go figure!

[chet-tonja]

We've got a couple stores like that in Indy also, but lucky for me Premium Aquatics and BlowfishAquatics are both LFS also. The markup on most businesses is huge. My brother in law owns a pizza joint and it's amazing how cheap it is to make a deluxe pizza. Online is the way to go in almost all cases, but it sure is nice to have a place that carries items in case of an emergency. I also like to just let my kids loose in the pet store so they can drive someone else crazy for a bit...lol.

[Alaskan Reefer]

Given that the dry goods section at LFS is likely going to be a thing of the past in the near future, I can't imagine how prices on frozen foods and livestock will increase over the next few years. And if people tire of high priced livestock, no more LFS. Seems like the type of high overhead / easily centralized business that the online era will eventually snuff out...

Which spawns the question, are we better off with or without the LFS? Eventually, we'll be answering it...

[Prater]

Not that it has anything to do with the LFS, but I own a computer business and the online prices are killing me. I try to get as close as possible but after my liabillity insurance, rent, utillities, and payroll I am in the red. Service is the only thing keeping me going. I too buy almost everything online for my tanks, maybe I just need to move to California and set up an online business.......

[BUBBA9459]

The prices you see online are almost always cheaper than we at the LFS can buy it for wholesale.

We use a 30% mark-up on most drygoods, not much considering we're the ones sitting on thousands of dollars worth of inventory.

I have ordered some items for resale, online because the wholesale supplier can not sell them for the price they offer.


We keep drygoods in the store as a convienence item for people who have middle of the night equipment failures, and such. I would much rather see that space devoted to livestock, But the first time a customer comes in with a bad powerhead, or V.H.O. bulb, and we don't have a replacement, We risk losing a customer.


I hear the, I can buy it online argument for $$$ , from some customers every time they come in . Believe me, I have no problem showing them my wholesale catalog, and most of the time they are shocked by the prices they see.

Some customers still think that we make a 300 % mark up on everything we sell, They see a 30.00 item in the store, and automatically figure that we pay two dollars for it.


Livestock is the same story


Please remember that most LFS owners, and some online suppliers are in the hobby , just like you, They are just trying to make a living doing what they like.

[mhurley]

Originally posted by BUBBA9459
The prices you see online are almost always cheaper than we at the LFS can buy it for wholesale.

Bubba,

How can that be?? Are you saying that on-line vendors are breaking even or losing money? How can they get wholesale prices cheaper than you? Volume?
I realize their infrastructure costs are completely different but I just want to understand the cost of goods issue.

I too, unfortunately, have turned on-line for virtually all my dry goods needs. It's a combination of cost and knowledge. I have yet to find a decent LFS in my area that can carry on a semi-coherent conversation about saltwater versus just selling me something in the store. The ones that can are an hour and a half drive from me and that's worth the UPS ground shipping to me from an on-line company.
I use the LFS strictly for emergencies and frozen foods. I'm sure if I spent more time with my LFS, I'd strike up a relationship with them and perhaps find a magical discount but it's not worth the initial investment to me.

Mike

[Prater]

I think a lot of online vendors make their money on shipping. Same deal in computers. The online vendors can sell cheaper than wholesale and then make it back up in shipping costs. Its the free shipping places that I have not figured out yet. Probably buying in large quantity, or just working on cash flow.

[ccc]

Kent pro scrapper 24" $54.00 Capital Aquarium.

[gfk168]

"Believe me, I have no problem showing them my wholesale catalog, and most of the time they are shocked by the prices they see."

Did you have problem showing them the invoice?



"Its the free shipping places that I have not figured out yet"

I lot of them are direct import!

[mhurley]

Prater,
maybe some are but not many. For example, Premium Aquatics, I just ordered 2 Salifert test kits and 4 bulkheads. Shipping was $5.84 UPS ground. I can't believe he's making any money off of that.

[mebarryb]

Basically the only way to buy online is with a credit card.
How many pay off the purchase with there first bill? Sometimes you save 15 bucks online only to in reality pay 40 more in finace charges over the term untill you pay off the charge if it gets payed off.
Local stores have so much more overhead to pay thats its hard to compete, this goes for many of todays local stores of anykind.
Owning a small biz myself I always try to deal local.
Nothing beats a face to face purchase to me.

[robitreef]

IME most of the good LFS in the Chicago area are pretty expensive, but you just have to look around and there is a deal if you can find it. Since I prefer to see my livestock before buying it, I found that in many cases you get what you pay for. Some fish and inverts that are more expensive in some stores for the most part seem to also be healthier, so would you rather pay a little more for a healthy fish or have a cheaper one die in a few days and then go back and spend more money? As far as dry goods, I sometimes go with mail order, but I usually check out the product in a LFS first to see what I am ordering. When you add in shipping and tax, you sometimes come out even. I have a few stores in my area that started out as online only, and now have store hours and they will give walk-ins the same savings as online orders, without the additional shipping.

[mikester]

Most of the internet places stock very little inventory, which reduces their overhead. They may stock a few of the more popular items, but most of what they sell is simply drop-shipped from the manufacturer. They can negotiate good deals with the manufacturers because they are essentially the wholesaler in this case, and generally can get nice discounts because of the volume they move. Contrast that with the typical LFS, which is way too small to deal directly with the manufacturers, so they have to go through a wholesaler (or two), so there is at least a couple more layers of markup involved.

I recently needed a new Velocity T3 pump, and I first went to my LFS, because I figured if he was within $20-30 of what I could order it online for, I would give him my business because I try to shop locally whenever I can. It ended up, his cost was $190 - $30 more than I could order it for online - and his retail price was $210. It just wasn't worth it for $50 extra.

But, it's pretty easy to see how the costs can add up. Let's say that pump has a wholesale cost of $150 from the manufacturer (just a wide-a$$ed guess).

Scenario 1 - You order the pump online from Premium Geek Aquatics Depot for $160. They order it from the manufacturer and have it drop shipped directly to you. They pocket $10 for something they've never seen or touched. Not a lot of money, but they sell 100 of these pumps a month, so it adds up.

Scenario 2 - Your LFS stocks the pump, but they don't sell enough volume to buy from the manufacturer directly, so they go through a distributor. That distributor pays the same $150 to the manufacturer, plus about $10 to have it shipped to their warehouse where it sits taking up space for some amount of time. The LFS finally orders the pump from them, so they add a 10% markup (which barely covers their warehousing and labor costs), so their price to the LFS is $160 + 10% or $176. Plus it has to get to the LFS, so another $10 in shipping, so their cost is $186 right off the bat.

And who's really making money on this deal? The manufacturer of course, but they probably have price pressure from overseas competitors with 25% of the labor costs, so they aren't making a killing. The internet companies/distributors are making a little bit, mainly off the volume they are moving. The LFS isn't making crap, because that pump will sit on their shelves for 6 months until someone needs one desperately enough to pay a 40% premium.

So the moral of the story is - buy stock in UPS.