Acrylic fabrication questions? I can help!

[FishyinKY]

Acryllicman

I too have made lots and lots of aquariums and i'm surprised at some of your answers on here. If you don't mind?

How come you prefer Weld-on 4 to Weld- on 3? How come you don't use the weldon's specifically made to weld acryllic to pvc?

My heater is made out of the heating unit to a dryer. Is this the type of plan you are submitting? I'd be interested to see if our plans are similar.

I might have missed it but do you use syringes or do you prefer the bottles with needles that you can purchase specifically for this?

Have you considered overlapping surrounding tops so that they can be made stronger and NOT have to have as large middle supports?

I've got tanks that have been together for over 20 years without problems, and I know people who have trouble with the tanks they've put together recently. I think its important to stress that the seal that's made be done properly. That people need to make sure they get whichever weldon they use totally distributed.

I really do NOT like weldon 16 but I love weld- on 40. Have you tried weld on 42?

Thanks in advance for your answers

[aquafab]

Originally posted by mia1974
Hi Acrylicman,

Here's a question that I haven't seen yet, what solvent would you suggest for gluing cast acrylic to PVC?

TIA

Use Weld-on 4052. It is a medium bodied cement and dries a honey yellow color (which may be unsightly to some) but it creates a strong bond between dissimilar plastics. HTH!

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by FishyinKY
Acryllicman

I too have made lots and lots of aquariums and i'm surprised at some of your answers on here. If you don't mind?

How come you prefer Weld-on 4 to Weld- on 3? How come you don't use the weldon's specifically made to weld acryllic to pvc?

My heater is made out of the heating unit to a dryer. Is this the type of plan you are submitting? I'd be interested to see if our plans are similar.

I might have missed it but do you use syringes or do you prefer the bottles with needles that you can purchase specifically for this?

Have you considered overlapping surrounding tops so that they can be made stronger and NOT have to have as large middle supports?

I've got tanks that have been together for over 20 years without problems, and I know people who have trouble with the tanks they've put together recently. I think its important to stress that the seal that's made be done properly. That people need to make sure they get whichever weldon they use totally distributed.

I really do NOT like weldon 16 but I love weld- on 40. Have you tried weld on 42?

Thanks in advance for your answers

As an aquarium manufacturer I don't usually bond acrylic to pvc.
I'm aware of specific Weldon products for PVC to acrylic, I just did not want to complicate matters. Most Plastic distributors don't carry to many types of Weldon products.

Weldon 3 is used almost exclusively for my Point of purchase displays. We use a case (4 gallons) every two weeks and it is fine for display production work. I would not use Weldon 3 for aquariums. Actually most of my aquariums are made with Weldon 4 and a mix to slow it down.


I buy the heating units from Chromalox. I use aluminum and a duty cycle controller. It is adjustable from a 1/2" gap to 3" gap and the ones I usually build are 54" long.

For thin material I use a ceramic composite substance and cut channels into it and use a toaster type Nichrome. We cut channels in many directions and do some unique production type bending. The material is not to hard to find and is relatively inexpensive. These benders do professional quality bending.


For my people, they use a 2 oz. bottle from Craftics, although we use are own needles, usually around 21 guage.

I use glass vet syringes on occassion and also the bottles.

When I build a tank, even up to 1.5" thick, I get flawless seams. Totally clear without any bubbles. There is definitely a technique, to it, not counting experience.

The seam is a s strong as the material itself.


I only use a frame work with center support on our framework tanks.

Most tanks are a solid top with cutouts. We make the tops with template routing and often with an $80,000 CNC. Depends if custom, or a standard run.

I do double laminate the frame work , if that is what you mean. So when I use 1/2" frame work, it is actually an inch thick.

Also, I don't like Weldon 16, but it helps a beginner in a pinch, to feel better about a not so perfect seam.

Weldon 40 is much better. I haven't use Weldon 42, I'll have to check that out. I appreciate the info.

Thank you everyone I always learn a lot.

Keep on fabricating, Sincerely, Acrylicman

[Bryan]

What also works well is PVC/ABS transition cement. A white color though.

Originally posted by aquafab


Use Weld-on 4052. It is a medium bodied cement and dries a honey yellow color (which may be unsightly to some) but it creates a strong bond between dissimilar plastics. HTH!

[DeathWish302]

Acrylicman:

Several questions:

1. What acrylic manf. do you prefer in tubing? (Is what US Plastics has adequate for skimmers, reactors...?)

2. What brands of router bits, sandpapers, rubbing compounds, and heating strips do you prefer?

3. Where could i see some of your work? Do you sell to Coral Reef Exhibits in Ft. Wayne, IN?

4. Lastly, for a tank measuring 36"L x 15"W x 15"-18"H would 3/8" cast be overkill? By doing some calculations, 1/4" should hold extremely well but i want ZERO bow in the future. That's why i'm leaning towards 3/8".

Thanks, and you really are helping out alot of people on this board.

DW302

P.S. How would someone go about entering the plastic fabrication industry that was soon graduating?

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by DeathWish302
Acrylicman:

Several questions:

1. What acrylic manf. do you prefer in tubing? (Is what US Plastics has adequate for skimmers, reactors...?)

2. What brands of router bits, sandpapers, rubbing compounds, and heating strips do you prefer?

3. Where could i see some of your work? Do you sell to Coral Reef Exhibits in Ft. Wayne, IN?

4. Lastly, for a tank measuring 36"L x 15"W x 15"-18"H would 3/8" cast be overkill? By doing some calculations, 1/4" should hold extremely well but i want ZERO bow in the future. That's why i'm leaning towards 3/8".

Thanks, and you really are helping out alot of people on this board.

DW302

P.S. How would someone go about entering the plastic fabrication industry that was soon graduating?

Thank you for everything!

1. The places that you buy the tube from,(US Plastics etc.) are all distributors, they don't manufacture the tubing. Cast tubing is actually manufactured by very few people. Most cast tubing from most distibutors get there tubing from a company called "Townsend". You can not buy direct. They are very good. Everything is inspected and they will cut it for you and wrap each piece in foam. As far as extruded tubing, who knows. It comes from everywhere and it is usually different.

2.Router bits, That varies on what I am doing. For you, just buy a good quality carbide tip bit. Believe it or not, for the price the cheap Taiwan bits seem to work better than most. You can get them for 8-10 dollars as opposed to 20-25 dollars. Although I do buy quite a few at a time.

If you want quality designed for Acrylic, Buy "Onsrud Bits"

Sandpaper, auto grade paper is better, but it all works just as well, the better quality just last longer.

I build my own heaters, strips don't do well for professional work.

I'll have books on that soon.

3. I build mainly wholesale and most of my items I don't know where they are going. I build a lot for Cleveland zoo.

4. 1/4" is fine. Use 0.236 gauge Lucite.
If you want it overkill, build the body out of 3/8" and the top and bottom out of 1/4"



The best way to get into this, is to find a job (entry level) at an acrylic fab company. (Preferably one that deals with water holding containers).

Any job would do, were you actually work with the material with your hands.

Learn all you can, buy books,study on the computer and practice, practice,and practice.

Set up a home work shop and learn by trial and error.

If I ever finish my 30 books or so that I have planned, then that will save you about 5 years in trial and error. It sure would of saved me a lot of time, the first five years.

Keep on fabricating! Sincerely, Steve

[dizzy]

Acrylicman,

Did I notice earlier that you said carbide was not the best blade material to rip acrylic? If so why not? Also if you were glueing an acrylic overflow in a glass tank what adhesive would you use? Is Dow Corning 795 better than 100% silicon?

PS
You know me dude.

[aquafab]

I applaud what you are doing. Taking the time to answer everyone thoroughly.

For those people reading these posts. Please consider that Cyro's tank recommendations requires the proper equipment for building large scale aquaria. Most DIYers will not have the equipment to bevel angles on panels and square off the panel... required to filet joints using two part polymerizable cement such as Weld-on 40. As well, Weld-on 40 requires a vacuum chamber to draw bubbles out of the mix before use. If you do not use a vacuum chamber, your joints may blow out.

I have never had a large aquarium fail using the two part polymerizable cement on beveled angled seams... but it's not a DIYer project... in my opinion.

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by eureka
Acrylicman,

Did I notice earlier that you said carbide was not the best blade material to rip acrylic? If so why not? Also if you were glueing an acrylic overflow in a glass tank what adhesive would you use? Is Dow Corning 795 better than 100% silicon?

PS
You know me dude.

I believe that was carbide tip holesaws should not be used, as far as saw blades and ripping acrylic. Always use carbide, preferably the highest grade possible. I usually use a C-4 grade.

I 've always used silicone. I don't have to much experience with glass, I try to stay away from it.

Keep on fabricating,

Sincerely, Steve

[aquafab]

Originally posted by eureka
Acrylicman,

Did I notice earlier that you said carbide was not the best blade material to rip acrylic? If so why not? Also if you were glueing an acrylic overflow in a glass tank what adhesive would you use? Is Dow Corning 795 better than 100% silicon?

PS
You know me dude.

Use GE silicone RTV108 (clear) or RTV103 (black). Seal all exposed cut edges of the acrylic overflow. Try Grainger's for a source for the silicone. HTH!

[DeathWish302]

Acrylicman,

Where would you think that someone would have the best of luck on cast sheet and cast tubing prices? We have Meyer Plastics and Total Plastics in town (Ft. Wayne), but i'm afraid their prices are a bit steep to US Plastics.

Also, where would be sveral places to look for blades and bits? Any specific size, tooth count, etc... you prefer over another?

Thanks,
DW302

[H20ENG]

aquafab,
Have you used the GE RTV 103/ 108? I have read a post somewhere that said a guy contacted GE directly and that is what was recommended. Sounds good to me.
I was always told to use 795. (795 is what is holding most public aquariums together by the way). But I read the 795 specs from Dow, and it says not recommended for submerged applications.
I also have heard of many tangs eating through the stuff. My buddy at the Long Beach aquarium uses it a lot and says that it really does go BAD, so dont use it after the expiration date. Too bad, I had lots.


Yes, if I cant have a large starphire, I'll sure have a nice small one!
Chris

[dizzy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DeathWish302
[B]Acrylicman,



Also, where would be sveral places to look for blades and bits? Any specific size, tooth count, etc... you prefer over another?


Besides www.grainger.com www.mcmaster.com or www.mscdirect.com call McMaster-Carr in Cleveland at 330-995-5500 or MSC 800-995-5500. Grainger, McMaster-Carr, and MSC offer an amazing line of industrial tools and products. All will probably send you a catalog if you are some type of business or a good BSer, and both do credit card sales.

Just tell them eureka sent you.

[aquafab]

Originally posted by H20ENG
aquafab,
Have you used the GE RTV 103/ 108? I have read a post somewhere that said a guy contacted GE directly and that is what was recommended. Sounds good to me.
I was always told to use 795. (795 is what is holding most public aquariums together by the way). But I read the 795 specs from Dow, and it says not recommended for submerged applications.
I also have heard of many tangs eating through the stuff. My buddy at the Long Beach aquarium uses it a lot and says that it really does go BAD, so dont use it after the expiration date. Too bad, I had lots.


Yes, if I cant have a large starphire, I'll sure have a nice small one!
Chris

Yes, I've used GE RTV108. Works great. Outside of the stink! That 'acetoxy cure' vinegar smell will make your eyeballs blood red especially hanging your head inside a tank with little ventilation. And like you have mentioned it does go hard in the tube if not used in a year or so. It's a construction adhesive so it is thicker than average silicone and prone to curing in the tube. I bought a dozen tubes at the wholesaler and threw out half because I never used them in time. I have never used Dow 795. Thanks for the post! What you mentioned is a good thing to keep in mind...

[Zephrant]

Originally posted by Acrylicman


You should have a center brace . 6 inches wide out of 1/2" material at least. Make sure it is solvent cemented well.

If you have to much stress and bow,it will have the tendency for the seams to break down and degrigate more than would be normal. In other words there is a much greater chance that a year down the road the top of the seam may let go a bit.

Sincerely, acrylicman

Thanks- I have removed the water from the tank, and have a fan on it to let it dry. Considering the top was not under water, just near it, how long should I let it dry before I try to glue to it with Weldon 4? The tank is 1/2" Plexiglass G, 50 x 24 x 23 high.

It tried to repair a calc reactor that had been try for two days- The glue on the outside was fine, but a single drop of glue on the inside instantly caused micro-cracks.

Thanks for the great help-

Zeph

[KMTaquarium]

whats the best way to keep the acrylic sheets from moving when you do the pull pin method?

-kevin

[The Locust]

i also have a quick question about the pin method and using the box jigs. im not exactly sure how you use the jigs. do they go on the inside or outside of the vertical piece? if the jig goes on the inside how do you apply the glue? could you post a picture of someone using the jig to help me understand. thanks

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by DeathWish302
Acrylicman,

Where would you think that someone would have the best of luck on cast sheet and cast tubing prices? We have Meyer Plastics and Total Plastics in town (Ft. Wayne), but i'm afraid their prices are a bit steep to US Plastics.

Also, where would be sveral places to look for blades and bits? Any specific size, tooth count, etc... you prefer over another?

Thanks,
DW302

Our Total plastic in our town is quite inexpensive. They are new and hungry in our town. They generally deal with businesses.

As far as blade and bits. If you want professional quality contact Onsrud. or look in yellow pages for sharpening and tool sales.

The same place that sharpen are acrylic blades supplies everything.

Most sharpening places do not do a good job on acrylic blades.

Ask your acrylic distributor who they use. Chances are they are good on sharpening acrylic blades and they probably sell everything.

Sincerely, Acrylicman

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by The Locust
i also have a quick question about the pin method and using the box jigs. im not exactly sure how you use the jigs. do they go on the inside or outside of the vertical piece? if the jig goes on the inside how do you apply the glue? could you post a picture of someone using the jig to help me understand. thanks

The box jig goes in on the inside. Leave a lip on the outside.

1/8" to 3/16" lip gives you enough room to glue and insert needles.

You then trim flush route the edge.

As far keeping things from sliding,

Do not laugh, I have been doing this for 16 years, even with a dozen employees.

I bought 200 5 lb. bricks and had them wrap them all up with duct tape.

Put a brick or two on your jig. They won't slide then. Even when you pull the needle hard.

Sincerely, Acrylicman

[KMTaquarium]

i learned the hard way, use weights or have someone help hold the piece when you pull the pins or apply pressure
-kevin
live and learn,
or it should be learn or dont live

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by KMTaquarium
i learned the hard way, use weights or have someone help hold the piece when you pull the pins or apply pressure
-kevin
live and learn,
or it should be learn or dont live

There is a way to hold your hand that won't move the piece.

It is hard to explain in words.

Basically you grab the needle with the thumb and forefinger and clench your fist so that the second knuckle of your forefinger is against the vertical sheet. As you pull the needle your knuckle is countering the force. With practice you can pull the needles without any movement of material.

Did any one understand that?

Sincerely, Acrylicman

[pojohnny]

I understood it. This has made for some very informative reading. Thank you AcrylicMan. Will your books be out anytime soon?

po

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by pojohnny
I understood it. This has made for some very informative reading. Thank you AcrylicMan. Will your books be out anytime soon?

po

Some will be soon, There will be a posting on a new revamped website that will be up soon.

Sincerely, Acrylicman

[Siddroww]

Acrylicman ,

We talked earlier about building a 120 and you told me 3/8 thick would be plenty . Well after building my sump , not to talk to soon because I have not filled it yet , I thought it was all pretty simple . I am now finding myself with the tape measure checking every possible placement in the house , checking floor structure ect. and am thinking bigger ( of coarse ) . A 54 x 24 x 24 ( 135 ) or a 48 x 30 x 24 (150 ) . Since I am going to buy 2 48 x 96 sheets I figure I will have enough to do it anyhow . So the question is will going up to either of these sizes bump me into 1/2 ? I would feel safer but why spend the extra bucks if I dont need to . By the way either tank size would be 24 high with a top and 2 openings .

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by Siddroww
Acrylicman ,

We talked earlier about building a 120 and you told me 3/8 thick would be plenty . Well after building my sump , not to talk to soon because I have not filled it yet , I thought it was all pretty simple . I am now finding myself with the tape measure checking every possible placement in the house , checking floor structure ect. and am thinking bigger ( of coarse ) . A 54 x 24 x 24 ( 135 ) or a 48 x 30 x 24 (150 ) . Since I am going to buy 2 48 x 96 sheets I figure I will have enough to do it anyhow . So the question is will going up to either of these sizes bump me into 1/2 ? I would feel safer but why spend the extra bucks if I dont need to . By the way either tank size would be 24 high with a top and 2 openings .

Yes for either tank I would do the body out of 1/2". Top 3/8"

It could be done out of 3/8" but I would not recommend it for a DYI 'er.

1/2" is a little over built, but I usually prefer to go that way for my customers.

Thank you! Acrylicman