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  #1  
Old 11/05/2006, 10:33 PM
kentrob11 kentrob11 is offline
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Meshwheel friggin rocks on Gen-X 4100!!!!!

I was running the gutter guard type wheels on my skimmer with 4 Gen-X 4100's running appx 790LPH on each and while fooling around in the garage I remembered that I had bought a scrub brush a month or so ago that I was going to try a bubble master style impeller with. I got it all hooked up and let her rip and to my amazement, this thing was pulling 20 LPM or 1200 LPH!!! That's 50% more than the Deltec Eheim pulls at it's best...Friggin unbelievable. The air suction on the top of the silencers is so strong that I would bet it would give me a hickey on my neck if I held it there for a couple of minutes.....

I had to unplug one of the pumps since all 4 going at once nearly blew the top off this thing!
  #2  
Old 11/05/2006, 11:01 PM
spence15610 spence15610 is offline
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got some pics, I would really like to check that out

Chris
  #3  
Old 11/05/2006, 11:03 PM
kentrob11 kentrob11 is offline
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doing it now...be back in a few
  #4  
Old 11/05/2006, 11:24 PM
kentrob11 kentrob11 is offline
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OK- Here's a shot of the meter:




And the skimmer body with just 3 of the pumps running. That's about 3500LPH.....

  #5  
Old 11/05/2006, 11:26 PM
BADBOYGATOR BADBOYGATOR is offline
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im new at this so bear with me first off wow!
now what kind of skimmer is that and what upgrade did you make?
  #6  
Old 11/05/2006, 11:29 PM
kentrob11 kentrob11 is offline
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It's a skimmer I built a few months ago and the upgrade was taking the needlewheel impeller out and mounting mesh on it....I'll try to get pics of the meshwheel later....
  #7  
Old 11/05/2006, 11:35 PM
BADBOYGATOR BADBOYGATOR is offline
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not to get off the sub.but is it your design?eather way can i get the specs for it i would live to build one and thus far the looks of yours is the best i have seen
  #8  
Old 11/05/2006, 11:39 PM
kentrob11 kentrob11 is offline
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Nah- Not my design at all actually...I copied the Deltec AP1004...

  #9  
Old 11/06/2006, 01:03 AM
dhnguyen dhnguyen is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by kentrob11
Nah- Not my design at all actually...I copied the Deltec AP1004...


And you probably saved a s***load of money versus buying a Deltec AP1004

Very nice job.

D.
  #10  
Old 11/06/2006, 01:15 AM
Indermark Indermark is offline
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wow! nice work, it actually looks like the real thing. when are you gonna start mass production?

Ryan
  #11  
Old 11/06/2006, 01:37 AM
dhnguyen dhnguyen is offline
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Actually IMO I think it looks better than the Deltec. There some very nice features on this DIY version that the Deltec just doesn't have. Is that a wetneck design you have there kentrob11?
  #12  
Old 11/06/2006, 02:24 AM
melev melev is offline
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You made a beautiful skimmer. I'm very impressed. Looking forward to your scrubby impellar pictures.
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  #13  
Old 11/06/2006, 05:53 AM
Malifluous Malifluous is offline
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Nice skimmmer! Can u or someone provide details on making a wet neck? Is there some type of ring that directs a little bit of flow thru the neck?
  #14  
Old 11/06/2006, 09:15 AM
RichConley RichConley is offline
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Nice skimmer. What size neck you got on that thing?
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  #15  
Old 11/06/2006, 10:57 AM
recreative recreative is offline
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crazy skimmer!!

i love this thing . . . must be one of the nicest euro-type diy skimmers ive seen yet.

any details on - what i assume - is the cup cleaning system?

any skimmate pics?
  #16  
Old 11/06/2006, 11:02 AM
RandyStacyE RandyStacyE is offline
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Gotta see what 'scrub brush' you're talking about.
  #17  
Old 11/06/2006, 11:28 AM
kentrob11 kentrob11 is offline
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Thanks guys- Here's a 24 hr skimmate pic- I've had it running kinda wet since I set it up but I'll explain that later. I'm just going to put together a writeup on it expaining all of the features and whatnot....
  #18  
Old 11/06/2006, 02:01 PM
kentrob11 kentrob11 is offline
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OK….The idea behind this skimmer was obviously to copy what I thought was the best skimmer on the market today without having to break myself in the process. I wanted a pristine tank and since I am not a believer in over skimming, I decided that about 5X my system volume is what I was shooting for. I initially considered using Eheim pumps for it but I felt that the same level of performance could be achieved without spending triple what it would cost to do the Gen-X 4100’s and after seeing what ER was able to get out of them, I was convinced that this was the right way to go. Another part of the plan was to incorporate every convenience feature possible created by other hobbyists here to produce a skimmer that would not only perform incredibly, but do so without me having to touch it very often.

I also wanted to be sure that the entire skimmer could be dissembled for easy cleaning so this is where other previously implemented ideas were used. It’s a total PITA to have to reach and torque your arms around inside of big pieces of equipment! Anyway, I’ll start with basic specs and then elaborate on features….

Basic Specs:

Capacity: Normal Stocking: 1600g (Deltec estimate)
Heavy Stocking: 1200g (Deltec estimate)
Pump: 3x Gen-X 4100 (originally 4)
Total Power Usage: unknown at the moment
Air Intake: 3500 L/H
H2O Throughput: 500gph
Dimensions: Length: 22" Width: 22" Height: 41"
Body Cylinder: 12"
Neck Cylinder: 5”
Intake: ¾”
Return: 1.5"


Features: (From the bottom up)

Drain:

For this I used a Hayward labcock with a threaded barbed adapter on the oulet. I then connected tubing to that and ran it down through a hole I drilled down through the table the skimmer is sitting on so all I need is a quick turn of the labcock and the skimmer drains into my sump below the table in about 3-4 minutes.


Pumps:

The pumps are Gen-X 4100s and at the moment there are 3 of them.

When I started working with these, they were pulling about 7-8 LPM with stock needlewheel and venturi so I knew there was going to have to be some serious tinkering to get what I wanted out of them. I started by taking a dremmel and grinding bit to the outlet of the pumps. I ground out the threads and widened out the inside of the outlet as much as possible without taking enough out to affect the structural integrity of the pump. I then took the volute off and rounded out the inside edges of the intake. Afterwards I took some wet sand paper and smoothed out the volute and the outlet.

The next step in this process was the venturi. Being the stubborn person that I am, I insisted that it wasn’t necessary to go blow another $100 on H@S venturis so I went to work designing one of my own. I went through countless different designs but the one that ended up working the best was drilling and tapping a hole as close to the intake of the pump as possible. I then inserted a length of 3/8” acrylic tube into a 3/8” threaded/barbed adapter and screwed the assembly into the tapped hole. This created the perfect amount of blockage for the pump to pull in quite a bit of air. The credit for this idea goes to Spazz for the most part since I based the concept on another design of his.


Now I had the impeller to deal with. It was about the time that Roland had discovered the gutter guard impeller idea that I was finishing the pumps up so I decided to give them a try and the results were pretty exciting.

After finishing one up and hooking the Dwyer air meter up to it I discovered that I had hit my mark of 800LPH. Then recently, I decided to try a meshwheel using the material off of a scrub brush I bought for that purpose a month or so ago.
I cut it and mounted it to an impeller with tiny zip ties and hooked it up and the Dwyer showed 20 LPM, or 1200 LPH. I about stooled myself so I proceeded to mod all 4 pumps with it and I then discovered that my skimmer wasn’t big enough to handle 4800 LPH of air. I decided to disconnect one of the pumps so now I am running 3 pumps pulling a total of appx 3500LPH of air.

The pumps are mounted to the body with uniseals and modified SCH80 bulkheads. I cut off and wetsanded the threaded end so when mounted to the skimmer body, the union would look cleaner and hug the skimmer body tightly. All of my body mounted unions were done like this.



Skimmer/Wetneck Feed:

Here I wanted a completely removable and adjustable mechanism to feed both the skimmer and the wetneck. I used ¾” plumbing with modified UnionsGeorge Fischer true union ball valve. And another Hayward labcock for the wetneck feed.


Outlet Riser Pipe:

Here I used 1 ½” plumbing, black PVC and another GF True union ballvalve for water height control inside the reaction chamber.

Air Silencers:

This was an idea that I got from the bubble kings but hadn’t really intented on using until I fired the skimmer up with all 4 pumps for the first time. It sounded like a firkin wind tunnel so I went ahead and made these using 1” black PVC and a pair of 1” caps. I drilled a hole in both the top and bottom and tapped the bottom hole for a threaded/barbed adapter. They work pretty well…You can see them clearly in this picture....



Coned riser flange assembly:

For the coned riser, I decided to go with ¼” thick ABS material to stick with the Deltec look a like theme. I heat formed the cone using a form box made of MDF and my stove (not always a good idea but it worked for me) and then mated it to a flange made of 3/8” acrylic sheet that mounted to the body itself. There is a 3/16” thick O-ring between the flange and riser and it is held in place with a pile of black nylon thumbscrews. This assembly allows me to completely remove the top of the skimmer for easy access to the inside of the skimmer body for cleaning, etc.

Mounted on top of the coned riser is a twist lock flange that I outsourced to a very talented CNC operator. I sent him numerous photos of Deltec and Euroreef flanges and asked him to draw one up and he really came through for me. It was machined out of 1” thick ABS and operates flawlessly!



Wetneck:

This is an idea I have to give Spazz total credit for. His wetneck designs really caught my attention since I am lazy and don’t like to have to clean the skimmer neck all the time to get it to work properly so I incorporated it into my design. The neck of the skimmer is 5 ¼” OD and the outer tube used for the wetneck is 6” OD. I decided that for structural rigidity and aesthetics, I would feed the wetneck from the bottom instead of the side so I drilled two small holes on either side of the bottom end of the neck and used 2 part epoxy to place two barbed fittings into the holes. Tubing spans from these fittings to a guest style union between the wetneck assembly and the skimmer feed for easy removal of the collection cup.

One thing I was a little worried about was crud getting trapped inside the wetneck chamber since the height gap between the two is so tiny. There really isn’t anyway to get something out if it gets stuck inside. I decided the best way to address this was a removable wetneck top so I designed one that incorporated a viton O-ring seated in a groove inside of the cap so that it sealed properly when pushed down over the wetneck. I went back to my CNC guy with the drawing and once again, he came through for me big time! I used a couple of razor blades to gap the cap so there is just enough room for water to cascade over the edge of the neck and it works perfectly, regardless of whether the skimmer is level or not.

The wetneck really causes the foam to shoot up the neck and keeps the neck clean to boot. Aside from taking the top of the collection cup for a quick spray down once a week or so, I didn’t have to touch the skimmer for over a month and the thing kept skimming like a champ. Thos with high end skimmers know what I’m talking about there- Your neck gets gunked up, ya gotta clean it or skimmer productivity degrades.

Collection Cup Spraydown System:

This system was something I designed myself to spray down the collection cup once a day for about a minute or so to keep it from getting too stinky and gummed up. I used ½” plumbing and spray nozzles made for landscaping sprinkler systems. They are mounted all facing the same direction creating a cyclone looking whirlpool inside the collection cup. The velocity of the water movement during the on cycle is amazing and it does a great job of keeping the collection cup relatively clean. It also keeps me from having to remove the cup to clean it.



The spray down system is fed by a spigot in my garage and the drain of the skimmer empties into a floor drain. This is a key element in implementing the system. I’m still debating on whether or not to run it on a timer. I kinda like the security of turning on the faucet myself and running it until it looks clean but then again….hands off……

Anyway, that’s pretty much it for now….
  #19  
Old 11/06/2006, 03:19 PM
kentrob11 kentrob11 is offline
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To answer some questions I missed...

dhnguyen- The running total on this thing is about $1,600. It sounds like a lot but whan you consider the fact that the AP1004 is about $5,000 with the self cleaning head, I think I made out pretty good :-P. If I had to do it all again with the knowledge gained from the process I would have only bought 3 pumps and that would have cut down on the expenses a little. The crazy thing is that 4 of these Gen-X 4100's pull even more air at 4800LPH with this build than the AP1006 with 6 Eheims!(4500) I wish I had a 20" tube :-P

Indermark- No plans for mass production here...takes too long to build with all I have going on in my life! :-P

melev- Thanks for the compliments- I forgot to take a pic of the meshwheel so I'm going to make another for the 5th 4100 I'm throwing on a pump for a friend's skimmer. I'll get a pic of it then but for the most part it looks just like the rest of the meshwheels out there just denser and a little thicker pile.

Malifluous- The wetneck basically sends a sheet of water cascading down the inside of the neck, keeping it slick so solids don't stick to it and hinder skimmer performance. It also greatly reduces the regular need for cleaning. Do a search in the DIY forum and you'll find a lot of build and functional info on them....

RichConley- It's got a 5.25" neck....

recreative- Thanks- The cup cleaning system is detailed in the writeup above....

RandyStacyE- I'll get a pic of that as soon as I get the other one done but reference the comment above for details on it. On a side note, thanks for all of your input in all of the threads dealing with building better skimmer pumps!

One thing I forgot to address is the bubble diffuser I am going to install. I haven't gotten around to working on getting it mounted yet but I built this thing a while ago and will see if it cuts down on turbulence and contributes to better performance. Designing a bubble diffuser for this thing was a challenge since it wasn't really designed to have one from the beginning.....










  #20  
Old 11/06/2006, 03:20 PM
recreative recreative is offline
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NUTZ!!

thanks for the reply and great ideas!!
  #21  
Old 11/06/2006, 06:51 PM
BADBOYGATOR BADBOYGATOR is offline
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again im just going to say WOW and thanks for the help im going to start getting my parts list going and make my own
  #22  
Old 11/06/2006, 06:57 PM
kentrob11 kentrob11 is offline
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Did my email to you make sense? Por gray PVC pieces, go to your local plumbing supply place and give them a single order for Spears gray PVC fittings. You can get a parts list with part numbers on Spears.com. I went to Savko.com, USplastics.com, delviesplastics.com and freckleface.com for the rest of the stuff....good luck!
  #23  
Old 11/06/2006, 07:07 PM
Duce Duce is offline
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Great job on this skimmer!
  #24  
Old 11/06/2006, 07:43 PM
melev melev is offline
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I'm beyond impressed. You did a fantastic job. Do you think you'll be able to shoot some brief videos so we can see some of the wet neck and cup rinsing action?
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  #25  
Old 11/06/2006, 07:53 PM
kentrob11 kentrob11 is offline
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Thanks! I actually took the collection cup washdown system off temporarily till I get the drain situation setup but I'll take the collection cup off tonight and run it to take a video so you can see what it looks like. Where can I host a video so that it can be seen here?
 

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