The Ultimate DIY Rocks! - Page 5

speckled trout · #**101** 05/25/2006, 10:02 AM

They shouldn't break. I made those rocks for a friend and they've been in his tank for going on two years. I cured them in freshwater for 3 months, the are very strong.

Remember, water displaces some of the weight of the rocks stacked on top of them. Also, there ain't that much weight of them, either. None of the rocks that I make are "big thick solid semi-round chunks" that weigh a ton, either.

captbunzo · #**102** 05/25/2006, 10:20 AM

Travis - the lowes site claimed:

1. Cleaner and more efficient than rock salt
2. Sized for maximum percolation

This makes me wonder what sort of size we are talking about here. I mean, is this stuff about the same grain as the rock salt you used before?

And about a cement mixer, I'd suggest you put that on hold for a LONG time (if you where serious). They're expensive.

Travis L. Stevens · #**103** 05/25/2006, 10:36 AM

Well, all of that is true that Lowe's stated.

1. It's pure NaCl crystals. The rock salt that I got from WalMart was "dirty". It seemed to have pieces of rock in it compared to this stuff. I'll try to get a picture of the crystals. But if you take a trip to Lowe's, I'ld put money down that someone's torn a bag open

2) I'm not sure what they mean by that. It's the same size as the rock salt that I originally used. It seems to come in better shapes, too. But, that's just details. Once your rock is covered in coralline algae and corals, you won't notice the shape of the indentions of the rock.

I'm thinking about just rigging up a cement mixer. Maybe take a lawnmower motor and hook it to a heavy duty 55g plastic drum..... Just an idea.

captbunzo · #**104** 05/25/2006, 10:44 AM

Hehe. Lawnmower motor. Hehe - make sure to take the blade off.

And get some pics.

I'd say the "better shapes" part is great... I'd want the tecture to be as accurate as possible to real rock.

Whatever the case, sounds great!!! Thanks for all the research, Travis. If you were closer, I'd make you help me make some rock.

Reef_|<eeper · #**105** 05/25/2006, 10:47 AM

I've never dealt with cement or concrete or anything... And so I was wondering how to mix it? Are there directions on the bag?

captbunzo · #**106** 05/25/2006, 10:51 AM

Yep...

Reef_|<eeper · #**107** 05/25/2006, 10:54 AM

Is that part messy? I live in an apartment as well and not much room to work with.

Travis L. Stevens · #**108** 05/25/2006, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reef_|
Is that part messy? I live in an apartment as well and not much room to work with.

I understand. I live in apartment too. That should tell you something. It's as messy as you want it to be. It's like playing in mud!

On a good note though, if you're quick enough making your rock, you can rinse your buckets out in the bathtub with LOOOOTS of water and have a bucket just as clean as when you first started. Because all the salt melts and then the extra cement gets so diluted, it just gets pushed all the way to the sewer lines and doesn't clog up your drains. I wouldn't try that with crushed coral and macaroni

Reef_|<eeper · #**109** 05/25/2006, 11:03 AM

When you made your rock travis, how did you put the salt/argonite in it? Did you put it in the cement when it was wet? While you were mixing up the cement?

Travis L. Stevens · #**110** 05/25/2006, 11:35 AM

No. Just put the salt in first, then scoop out the Portland cement and pour it in. Mix the dry stuff up a little bit. Then add water. Most likely it's not going to be perfect. Add more water if it's too dry or clumpy and add cement if it's too wet. Make sure to mix it thuroughly before making the dicision to add more water or cement. You're aiming for it to be able to hold it's shape, not to be able to pour it.

Reef_|<eeper · #**111** 05/25/2006, 02:14 PM

sounds easy enough. When I get to doing this, I will sure post my pics. Thanks again Travis. This has really helped alot.

Travis L. Stevens · #**112** 05/25/2006, 02:40 PM

No problem. If I feel up to it tonight, I'll do another batch of rocks taking detailed pictures from beginning to end. We'll see though. I only got two hours of sleep last night

Slovak · #**113** 05/25/2006, 02:44 PM

Many thanks for the post, pictures, and all the advice. I've just moved my tank to a new house, and I was wondering how to afford more LR with all the expenses of the house. Sounds like I'll be making a trip to Lowe's soon!

Peter...

Covey · #**114** 05/25/2006, 03:12 PM

That is the salt that is in my rock already. I thought that is what you guys where using or I would have brought it up. If I make other batch I think I might mix those huge pellets. The ones in the yellow bag.

captbunzo · #**115** 05/25/2006, 03:24 PM

Let's get some more info on the huge pellets. Are they safe?

Travis L. Stevens · #**116** 05/25/2006, 03:30 PM

No, back at the beginning I mentioned that I was using little 5lb bags of rock salt from walmart that are intended to be used with ice cream making. I was still in search for a bulk source.

As far as using the pelletized form, the large areas that would be formed wouldn't be able to harbor much denitrificating bacteria, but it would make for some interesting shapes and holes. I wonder how fast it dissolves in water though. Also, is the pelletized salt formed with a secondary chemical? I would definitely crab the MSDS sheets for the other two types

captbunzo · #**117** 05/25/2006, 04:45 PM

I'd be interested in using the larger chunks less from the standpoint of how you were using the rocksalt and more for using it to do artistic stuff to the outside of the rock. Or something like that.

And, btw Travis, don't you realize that I expect YOU to do all the research for this for me???

jk ... maybe...

slalomskier49456 · #**118** 05/25/2006, 07:19 PM

Thanks for the great idea for live rock. I made a few test pieces this evening and am hopeful that they will bulk up my not-quite-enough real live rock-filled 90g.

Regarding mixing the cement, the most efficient method would be to use a "Paint & Mud Mixer" from the Home Depot. It hooks directly up to a standard drill, with a driver. They generally are used to mix grout in tile installations.

The link to it is: www.homedepot.com

Search for "mud mixer". It is only $10.

Thanks again for the great idea! I hope mine turn out.

Jamie

Here is a picture of my mixer:

scarter · #**119** 05/25/2006, 07:50 PM

anyone know about air drying rocks? I know they eill not be as solid but is it ok to just let them sit outside for a couple of weeks?

rstark33 · #**120** 05/25/2006, 08:22 PM

I know it needs to be done in water. The rocks are not drying, but curing.
I don't know the chemistry behind it, but when the ph stabilizes then the rock is done curing and will not mess up your PH in your tank. If you put it in before curing it, it will most likely kill everything in your tank.
Garf.org recommends 6 weeks with daily water changes. Just set up a tub in the yard and let them sit. I think most change the water weekly in all reality.
You can also put pieces in the tanks of your toilets, and they will get water changes most often!

scarter · #**121** 05/25/2006, 09:16 PM

what I was asking was about curing in open air. Water serves to make the concrete cure slower thereby makeing it harder. I am asking if drying concrete in open air has any ill effects on the product. I have air cured 5 pieces of DIY rock and am curious if anyone else has done this. Most people get the idea from garf and garf says cure in water. my question is besides hardness, is there any reason to cure in water or are we all just following the herd?

Covey · #**122** 05/25/2006, 09:24 PM

Your curing in water to get the pH down. My rock at a week in the tub are still leaching with a ph 11.5. Letting them sit out in the air for a month won't do anything.

Second you have to get all the salt out of these rocks as well

Reef_|<eeper · #**123** 05/25/2006, 10:43 PM

Has anyone added wet or uncured DIY rock to their already cured rock to get the cave that the want? If not, is there any way that it wouldn't be possible to do such thing?

scarter · #**124** 05/26/2006, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Covey
Your curing in water to get the pH down. My rock at a week in the tub are still leaching with a ph 11.5. Letting them sit out in the air for a month won't do anything.

Second you have to get all the salt out of these rocks as well

so what you are saying is that the air cured rocks are in a type of "Limbo" and when I put them in water the curing process starts then? I thought the high PH was due to the chem reactions of the rock as it cures. since it cures slower in water, wouldent the curing process take less time in open air?

Travis L. Stevens · #**125** 05/26/2006, 11:22 AM

No, the rection with the water and the lime of the cement is what is causing the high pH. The mixing of the cement is causing heat because of chemical reactions, though. Soaking it in water allows the water to work through the cement to dissolve it down to a managable level.