ro/di plumbing question...

[casingbill]

I need to move my ro/di out of my kitchen before the wife kills me. I want to put it in the basement, but I don't see an easy way to do and wonder if anyone has any ideas. I know I can use a needle valve to tap in the the 3/4" copper pipe, but I don't know what to use to for an on/off switch and I also don't know how to get the wastewater into the 4" pvc drain pipe. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.

[itZme]

I would suggest a Uniseal into the 4" pipe. You could get whatever size Uniseal that fits your RO tube's O.D. (probably 3/8" O.D.)
Then all you have to do is drill a hole, stick the Uniseal in and then work the RO tubing into the Uniseal. I use a John Guest type ball valve to get RO water when the ATO solenoid is not open. You could use one to manually turn the feed on and off right at the RO unit.

The "needle valve" you mentioned for the feed line is called a saddle valve.

Here's a good supplier of Uniseals >>>AussieGlobe<<<

If you haven't heard of them yet here is a page explaining the use. [url=http://aussieglobe.com/uniseal2.htm] >>>LINK<<<

HTH

[kgross]

For the on off switch, just use simple john guest quarter turn ball valve, can be found at home depot or lowes. For the wastewater. You can get a 4 inch saddle tap also, but they are pretty expensive. If it was me I think I would just drill and tap the abs at a coupling.

Kim

[wife no likey]

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-4-inlet-Saddle...sid=p1638.m118

for the saddle

[kgross]

That saddle valve is not big enough for 4 inch pipe. It is for 1 1/2 inch pipe.

Kim

[wife no likey]

you can extend the drain line in order to reach a normal 1.5" drain.

There is no reason to tap into a main stack.

[casingbill]

ok..the saddle valve seems easy enough, I can just manually turn it on and off for now. I guess, I can just run the drain right back up to the kitchen sink drain, through the floor. I think thats all I need to get started, then work on making it automated....thx.

[wife no likey]

if you don't want to mess with cutting into copper or whatever you can also use this




http://buckeyefieldsupply.com/showpr...owspecials=133

to go from your sink feed down to the ro and then back up w/ your drain.


Pete

[Siffy]

Running the drain back up stairs to the main floor would put more than optimal restriction on the membrane. Wouldn't recommend it. I'd go with kgross's suggestion of tapping the drain pipe as low as possible. It could always be plugged later if the unit is removed.

wife no likey, that valve just got saved into my bookmarks. I could have used one of those a couple years ago. Could have saved me a lot of headaches with leaking T's.

I don't quite understand what you mean by on/off switch, but maybe you mean this.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...0&pcatid=14690

[RandalB]

For the waste line: 1/4" MPT x 1/4" Quick Connect fitting. You can get 'em at Home depot.

Drill the hole, tap the edges.

Teflon the MPT end of the fitting and screw it into the 4" pipe.

Hose into the Quick Connect and you're good to go.

RandalB

[itZme]

Or a lot easier... drill a hole, pop in a $1.06 uniseal and then shove the line into the uniseal... no taps to buy, no JG fitting to buy.

I have pipe taps up to 1.25" NPT and would prefer to use a Uniseal whenever possible. I have at least 15 Uniseals on my system in various skimmers, 55g barrel sump, 100g Rubbermaid tub etc... no leaks in a couple years.

[RandalB]

They make a 1/4" Uniseal for flexible tube?

RandalB

[RandyStacyE]

Not that this thought is 'to code' or anything, but I've seen it done.

Drill a hole that snugly fits your 1/4" OD hose in the top of the 4" pipe and just shove it in. If you're feeling froggy you could use a bit of epoxy putty or even some silicone.

Assuming that your 4" pipe has enough slope then you shouldn't EVER run into problems.

Other than doing that you could drill and tap threads for a John Guest fitting.

I am not aware of a Uniseal that is made for such a small hose, but I could be wrong.

You could also make your wife happy by installing a small faucet for RO water. If you do that then you would also want to install a bladder tank ... I would shell out for a 5 gal bladder tank. If you have a refrigerator that makes ice and dispenses water then you could feed the refrigerator with RO too.

[wife no likey]

running the drain line an extra 100 feet isn't going to put any significant "restriction" on the membrane. The brine side is under pressure the same that the rest of the system is.

[Siffy]

http://savko.com/partlist.asp?pgid=2&ptid=30&pid=156

They have them labeled as 3/16", 1/4", and 3/8" but that's probably OD for some really small pipe. Never seen any that small before.

An extra 100 feet of 1/4" tubing does create a good bit of friction, but I was referring more to the static head from the height difference in the basement and kitchen. Given it won't be a lot, but any RO/DI mfg will tell you not to restrict the drain output at all.

[wife no likey]

By adding a negligible amount of head and some tubing you aren't going to be able to put a dent in line pressure. You are draining to a line that is @ atmospheric pressure.

[casingbill]

Originally posted by Siffy
http://savko.com/partlist.asp?pgid=2&ptid=30&pid=156

They have them labeled as 3/16", 1/4", and 3/8" but that's probably OD for some really small pipe. Never seen any that small before.

An extra 100 feet of 1/4" tubing does create a good bit of friction, but I was referring more to the static head from the height difference in the basement and kitchen. Given it won't be a lot, but any RO/DI mfg will tell you not to restrict the drain output at all.

is the uniseal ok to use with the 1/4" tubing...or is it made for pip only?

[Siffy]

Originally posted by casingbill
is the uniseal ok to use with the 1/4" tubing...or is it made for pip only?

I don't have a clue. Only way to find out is wait for someone who does know to answer or get one and try it on a scrap piece of pipe or something else you don't mind drilling a hole in..

[itZme]

If you drill the hole in the top of the pipe it should actually never even get wet. The flow through your 4" drain is not a solid stream of water. There is probably never even half of the pipe full of water. I would think if you drilled anywhere near the top and inserted the stiff RO tubing into the uniseal it wouldn't have a problem. I haven't tried one with RO tubing yet but have used them for lots of connections and really think they are convenient.

Savko charges $7.75 for any order up to $15 in value so you will end up paying $8.59 for the 84 cent part. AussieGlobe.com charges $5 shipping for their 69 cent part. Seems like however you go you are going to spend $5 unless you just drill a hole and epoxy it in. If you are not interested in getting a tap and doing it that way you could try to epoxy a JohnGuest style ball valve into the pipe so if you decide to move it later you can just pull the tube out and close the valve to stop any backflow you could have.

If you have the pipe tap it seems like the most cost effective and least risky way to do it unless you can find uniseals locally. It is not hard to tap the PVC.

Good Luck!

[AZDesertRat]

Just sticking the waste line into the drain will not meet plumbing codes if that is of concern. Running the waste line up a floor or extending it out any length will change the waste ratio which will have an effect on the efficiency and longevity of the RO membrane.
Units should be installed so they meet local plumbing codes especially if you intend to use it for any human consumption. Codes are there for a reason, to protect human health. Thats why better drinking water units come with an air gap drinking water faucet with an air break for the waste line.
You can get either an adjustable flow restrictor or a capillary tube type you can trim to fit your exact conditions so you stay close to the recommended 4:1 waste ratio should you decide to run the waste flow either upstairs or for a long distance.

[wife no likey]

As previously stated, I highly doubt that adding a few extra feet of tube will significantly change the restriction.

You can easily test it before prior to permanently putting the drain line in place. If it does change the flow, get an adjustable restrictor as AZ recommends.

But all this about uniseals and the like seems pretty ridiculous to me. You should have the line enter above a trap. You know there is a reason for the things after all

Just another example on this site of the complete over complication to what should be mundane tasks.


Pete

[itZme]

Yes the trap is put in there to stop waste gasses from entering the residence through the waste line. I don't see how adding a couple gallons per hour of water down the line after the trap would change anything. I suggested the Uniseal as a way to simply plumb the waste water into the waste drain line without the risk of anything unwanted leaking out. It would be a perfectly fine solution and Uniseals are pressure rated. I don't know why you would say a rubber grommet is complicated.
On my basement RO system I just have the waste running down the fishroom sink drain.

Good luck to the OP with your project.

Originally posted by wife no likey
As previously stated, I highly doubt that adding a few extra feet of tube will significantly change the restriction.

You can easily test it before prior to permanently putting the drain line in place. If it does change the flow, get an adjustable restrictor as AZ recommends.

But all this about uniseals and the like seems pretty ridiculous to me. You should have the line enter above a trap. You know there is a reason for the things after all

Just another example on this site of the complete over complication to what should be mundane tasks.


Pete

[itZme]

Originally posted by wife no likey
running the drain line an extra 100 feet isn't going to put any significant "restriction" on the membrane. The brine side is under pressure the same that the rest of the system is.

Russ from Buckeye Field Supply (where they sell lots of RO systems) told me the following in THIS post.

"The problem with using 100 feet of tubing in a warm water bath is that you'll lose pressure because of the long tubing run.

Russ"

There is also the 8-10 feet of additional pressure placed on the membrane by trying to push the water up to the upper level of the house. That equals about 4.5 PSI. I'm not sure what that would change.

[AZDesertRat]

Russ is correct, the pressure loss can make a big difference especially if pressure and/or temperature re marginal to begin with.
Code says install a RO drain on the consimer or sink side of a P trap to help prevent backsiphonage.

[Pbrown3701]

itZme - i've used Uniseals on a couple of occations and EVERY one of them has leaked eventually. IMO, that is NOT a good solution here.