Lab analysis of instant ocean and other salt mixes

[LobsterOfJustice]

Salt can settle due to shipping etc. A sample taken from the top does not necessarily come out the same as a sample from the bottom. I think we should make it a point that the entire content of the package is dissolved, and a sample taken from that. Shouldnt be hard, as most companies make a 5g bag or something similar, but it would be important in this case to use the entire package. Add it to a little less water than reccomended, and then add more water to adjust the salinity to 35 ppt.

[DrBegalke]

Carlo, no problem. Sent you another PM.

[cd77]

Macimage -- wow! When I lived out there, we used to go fishing near the harbor from time to time -- and we never ate it. I figured they got the water somewhere around Catalina island. I have done a bit of fishing around Catalina, good eatin'!

I wonder if they still supply to Aquarium of the Pacific..

[DrBegalke]

I wonder how far out they get the source water... California's shores don't strike me as the cleanest.

[cd77]

If they're pulling it from the harbor, it doesn't matter -- very high traffic area.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...&t=h&z=13&om=1

For perspective, here is Catalina island -- one would hope they're pulling water from west of Catalina.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...=10&iwloc=addr

[DrBegalke]

wow, interesting pictures! you can definitely see a difference just from the satellite view.

[DrBegalke]

Long Beach as in LBC?

[cd77]

The one and only!
http://www.catalinawater.com/About_Us.html

[DrBegalke]

Hmm, I wonder where else we could get NSW. Not sure about someone just going to the shore and sampling some.

[cd77]

This article mentions Scripps Institute of Oceanography, UC San Diego -- http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seawater.htm

Maybe this control is asking a bit too much -- I honestly don't know. I'm wondering now how much water needed to be sampled to obtain the NSW figures we're all so used to seeing in comparison charts.

[SDguy]

Lots of locals here use scripps water. Here's some info on it....
http://www.sdreefs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11201

[SDguy]

Originally posted by LobsterOfJustice
Salt can settle due to shipping etc. A sample taken from the top does not necessarily come out the same as a sample from the bottom. I think we should make it a point that the entire content of the package is dissolved, and a sample taken from that. Shouldnt be hard, as most companies make a 5g bag or something similar, but it would be important in this case to use the entire package. Add it to a little less water than reccomended, and then add more water to adjust the salinity to 35 ppt.

I'm not sure how salt is manufactured, but I would think they would make it so settling of different components would not happen. We would have to "mix" our dry salt after shipping, wouldn't we?

[cd77]

Originally posted by SDguy
I'm not sure how salt is manufactured, but I would think they would make it so settling of different components would not happen. We would have to "mix" our dry salt after shipping, wouldn't we?

Read Carlo's post (first post) on page two. I've never even considered mixing my salt until reading that -- but if you think about it, it's hard to imagine it not settling considering the wide variety of compounds and elements in the mix.

[melev]

Originally posted by cd77
The one and only!
http://www.catalinawater.com/About_Us.html

I think I see the problem. Did you notice they are using trucks to get the water, instead of boats?

Just kidding - don't spread that around like gospel now!

[cd77]

lol

Ah, breaker one nine, this here's the rubber duck out of LB harbor towards Catalina. Catchin' a bit of wet weather here, over.

[DrBegalke]

cd77, that's too funny!

[SDguy]

Originally posted by cd77
Read Carlo's post (first post) on page two. I've never even considered mixing my salt until reading that -- but if you think about it, it's hard to imagine it not settling considering the wide variety of compounds and elements in the mix.

Yeah, I read that. I don't know. Has a salt manufacturer ever said anything about this? I mean, just looking at the mix, it doesn't look like many different components just thrown together. It appears very uniform in it's size, consistency, etc. I would like to think that if the manufacturer took the time to do this, they factored in the various weights and sizes of the various compounds, to make settling of any one/several compounds unlikely. I don't know though, perhaps I expect too much, working for a FDA regulated company

[cd77]

Peter -- I don't know. You're the biochemist It may be worth an eMail or a call to one or two salt mfgr.'s though I suppose.

[DrBegalke]

Just don't tell the salt companies about this study, since they would then know we are testing their salt off the shelves... they might go out and make a perfect NSW substitute and put that on the shelves...

[SDguy]

Originally posted by DrBegalke
they might go out and make a perfect NSW substitute and put that on the shelves...

Now that would be horrible

[Macimage]

I forgot to mention that I was also told one of the major LAX wholesalers was having horrible problems with their systems and finally figured out it was the Catalina water.

I do not believe they get it from Catalina. I've think it's from Long Beach, but I not verified it.

Joyce

[LobsterOfJustice]

Originally posted by SDguy
Yeah, I read that. I don't know. Has a salt manufacturer ever said anything about this? I mean, just looking at the mix, it doesn't look like many different components just thrown together. It appears very uniform in it's size, consistency, etc. I would like to think that if the manufacturer took the time to do this, they factored in the various weights and sizes of the various compounds, to make settling of any one/several compounds unlikely. I don't know though, perhaps I expect too much, working for a FDA regulated company

I don't know either. Just passing on what I have heard. I heard it first from a speaker at a local reef club meeting, and have heard it from other sources on these boards as well.

[Boomer]

Dr

I have no issue with you running it the way you want, as jd said.

Let them test, forget about double checks, involving other companies, blind tests or complicating this matter. That's it. Hands off please we just want test of those salts same way they will test anyone elses

This is what I thought the original intent was suppose to be.

As far as blind samples at some time that is another issue and fine. We are getting something for free and should take advantage of it.

I really did not want to get evolved with this and was only concerned with can they test for bromide. I think the poll is a good idea and what I was driving at in the other thread. We do not want to take advantage of them to much. We need to vote on things.

5) If possible, pH is to be measured 1 hr after mixing and at 24 hours. (I am not sure what practical information testing at 12 hours would yield).

It is just a guide that is often done and is not something we have to have. And actually there would be more than 3, like every 4-6 hrs. It just tells you how long it take x salt to get to equilibrium.

I think it would be a good ides as I said earlier to seen what Salinity you get at 35 grams of salt in 965 ml of water. This is one of the most common tests done in any study on ASW. It equates to how many gals of salt mix you get out of a bag. It is the cost efficient dollar value, what a "buck" will get you.

17. Another source of NSW?

Yes, CaribSea's new NSW "SEA-PURE"


Peter and others.

I've never even considered mixing my salt until reading that -- but if you think about it, it's hard to imagine it not settling considering the wide variety of compounds and elements in the mix.

You may not of heard of this but is something many of us advocate. Even if all particles are the same grain size they will still settle due to density differences. If the articles are not all the same size they usually settle due to grain size. Larger particles usually work their way to the top. It is called the Brazilian Nut Theory. Salts are sediments more or less and will settle. Bags or buckets can produce a convoluted structure most of which is due to not only density and grain size but moisture content. The moisture makes it more fluid.

[melev]

I always get the best barrel of saltwater after mixing up the last of an open bucket.



















Just kidding. What you guys have mentioned has never occured to me. Back when Kent had their alkalinity debacle, I could see different colors in the bucket and knew it wasn't mixed evenly. But the settling thing sounds plausible. Thanks a lot for that. How are you mixing up your buckets, especially if they are bagged inside the bucket?

[SDguy]

Originally posted by melev
How are you mixing up your buckets, especially if they are bagged inside the bucket?

Roll it down a hill?