question regarding chiller on sps tank

BlueLagoonSD · #1 06/29/2006, 12:10 AM

So im picking a new chiller tomorrow. Just wondering whats the optimal temperature you guys run your sps tank at.

Also is it better to have the chiller tee off from your return and come right back into the sump, or go back to the tank? I already plumbed the return to the tank with a tee off valve for the chiller, so just having the return go to the chiller and back to the tank is not an option.

Thanks guys

mr. pluto · #2 06/29/2006, 12:21 AM

the chiller must meet min flow. set by mfr. so it's not a good idea
to loop it back to sump unless you got big time flow.
of course this would work if you had a smallish tank,
small chiller & larger return pump.

BlueLagoonSD · #3 06/29/2006, 12:27 AM

I have a mag 24 for this purpose, which pumps 2000gph at 4 ft. Theres a 1 inch return to the tank. That one inch return is teed off to another 1inch which further divides into a 1/2 piping to the fuge and 3/4 piping to the chiller. Do you guys think I should be okay? There are valves to adjust flow on everything.

2004jeepoutlander · #4 06/29/2006, 12:48 AM

yea what kinda chiller are you getting that might even need to have a ball valve on it.

mr. pluto · #5 06/29/2006, 12:53 AM

i dunno, my opinion is mine only so...
if the mag 24 is in the sump it will be a heater .how big is the sump? how many gal are you cooling? it will work but it's not the most efficient way to do it. you'd be using the chiller to cool the pump. there is nothing wrong w/ valves to control flow to chiller
imo. you can fine tune your pump to chiller for max.
efficiency
forgot this, 79~81 2 degree setpoint

Bullredchaser · #6 06/29/2006, 01:03 AM

79

BlueLagoonSD · #7 06/29/2006, 01:33 AM

Lol sorry about the important information. The tank is a 100 gallon and two 1 inch drains. And the sump is a 40 gallon. The chiller is a 1/4 hp pacific coast chiller with 3/4 input and output.

So your saying its better to have the return tee to the chiller and then back to the tank? Im not sure if my overflow can handle both the return from straight from the pump and from the chiller. Not sure how the chiller will only cool the pump. Won't it chill the whole tank. Since the chill water will go back to the tank through the pump? Or do you mean the pump will warm the chill water and we are back to square 1, which makes sense.

Quote:

Originally posted by mr. pluto
i dunno, my opinion is mine only so...
if the mag 24 is in the sump it will be a heater .how big is the sump? how many gal are you cooling? it will work but it's not the most efficient way to do it. you'd be using the chiller to cool the pump. there is nothing wrong w/ valves to control flow to chiller
imo. you can fine tune your pump to chiller for max.
efficiency
forgot this, 79~81 2 degree setpoint

RichConley · #8 06/29/2006, 09:11 AM

You're looking at 200w or so of heating constantly on with that mag 24. A small external pressure rated pump (Gen X? Maybe Blueline NS 800) will probably remove the need for a chiller, and will save you quite a bit on the electricity bill.

ricks · #9 06/29/2006, 09:43 AM

You don't list your lighting. Or how much temp you are trying to draw down. I run my tank at 79. You also listed a mag 24 at 2,000 gal. at 4ft head. Don't forget to figure in all your plumbing, fittings, ball valves, and the chiller itself for head loss. I know thouse pumps are not pressure rated and the head loss drops off fast. I figuring about 12 ft of head pressure on that pump. Check with Pacific Coast about the head lose from the chiller. I know on my PC 1hp they figure 2-3 foot of head lose. Did you think about a cyclone drop in chiller? All you would need to do is put the coil in your sump....

Racenrich · #10 06/29/2006, 03:00 PM

FWIW...i run my chiller @ 82F....when temp hits 83.1 it kicks on and brings it down to 82 within 30 min or so......in the summer i run alittle warmer tank.....

it would take to much to try and maintain a 170g setup with a 1/5th HP chiller @ 77F.....therfore the 82 max temp....HTH

bnlimit10 · #11 06/29/2006, 04:01 PM

As far as the pluming goes, it really doesnt matter where the return of the chilled water goes too, however you must have a minimum amout of flow for the chiller to work properly. Another thing to consider is if you are getting the water from the sump to feed the chiller, you really dont want the return to come there again, as this will not exactly be beneficial. but the water can come from the tank and return to the tank, as the volume should be much larger there. As far as temperature goes, I keep my chiller set at 81 degrees for cooling and 78 degrees for heating, so that my chiller is more of a stop gap in case temperature starts to swing either way.

smcooler · #12 06/29/2006, 05:40 PM

summer tank temp 80- 81 chiller comes on at 82 halides go off at 84. 1/3 red sea tees off my main pump witch is a dart total gal. 300 hth.

BlueLagoonSD · #13 07/01/2006, 02:26 AM

So its much better if I replumb the tank so that the return pump goes to the chiller and then straight to the tank? I think I will try this tomorrow. My tank has been hitting 84 during the day and 79 at night, I set my chiller at 79. Seems like the chiller is struggling with keeping the temp down. The tank is in the garage so its really hot. Im assuming there isnt enough flow through the chiller also. So the mag 24 will be dedicated to going through the chiller, tee of 1/2 inch to the refuge and calcium reactor. Im thinking I should replace the return pump. You think a mak 4 should be able to handle all this? or should I go with the eheim? Thanks guys

DarkXerox · #14 07/01/2006, 02:43 AM

Any of you guys have problems with the chiller not doing much when it is really hot outside (like over 100F)? I would think that they pretty much limited in those types of situations.

marinelife · #15 07/01/2006, 02:55 PM

Mine shuts off after 20 minutes to cool down then starts again, it is in the garage and is over heating

smcooler · #16 07/01/2006, 04:00 PM

my fan really helps blowing across the top, chiller does not have to work to hard.

mr. pluto · #17 07/01/2006, 09:40 PM

yes, inline is best, the mak 4 will work fine. it will be a lot cooler than the mag pump. btw check your ambient temp for your chiller. you might have to set it outside of the garage. they don't work well over 95 degrees air temp. (when running) you might have to have a house fan to evacuate the hot air.

dots · #18 07/01/2006, 10:13 PM

Since the water will equilibrate, I would pull and return it to the sump. Use a temp probe in the display and adjust the chiller as needed.

My main reason, other than keeping all that I can in the sump is that a localized cold area could do some harm.....

in the sump, it has a chance to mix with wth other water and move back into the main display.

As far as the pump.....I may be the minority, but I prefer to buy the cheaper via aquas as a workhorse on these auxillary circuits and relplace them more often than buying something like a mag.....which from what I heard produces alot of heat, but reliable. I just prefer to replace the cheaper ones every year or so to minimize failure.

BlueLagoonSD · #19 07/01/2006, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sacramentodots
Since the water will equilibrate, I would pull and return it to the sump. Use a temp probe in the display and adjust the chiller as needed.

What do you guys think about this? I just plumbed my chiller so that it goes to the main tank too

mr. pluto · #20 07/01/2006, 11:39 PM

i'm getting mixed up here. do you mean return pump goes to chiller, up to main tank & back to sump? and also tees off for reactor before going uptown? that will wrk great ,lose 2 extra pumps. or 1 pump does this & another just goes uptown & back
again.

toddmcgill · #21 07/02/2006, 12:10 PM

according to the manufacturer of my chiller which is trade wind not pc, but i would think the principals would be the same, here are some key do's and donts' that they said were critical for proper chiller performance.

1.chiller should be plumbed to draw from sump go through chiller at prescribed flow rate and return to tank, not loop to sump. if you loop to your sump all you are doing is guaranteeing that the water going into your tank is at correct temp,depending on flow rates and such the actual water in the tank could be considerably warmer than the sump water.

2.chiller must be able to breate propperly,in other words must be well ventilated so it has cooler air to pull across the coils.

3.set point on controller should be at least 1.1 degree diffrence between on and off temps to avoid short cycling the chiller which will cause dramatically shortened chiller life.

4.coils must be cleaned on a regular basis,in order to maintain good airflow for peak effiency.

anyway those are a few things they told me when i called to discuss instilation of my 1hp chiller and i did specifically ask if i could just use a seperate pump and loop to my sump, he emphatically told me not to do that,sump volume is usually too small it will be cooled quickly and chiller will short cycle then warm water comes back in frm the tank and it kicks back on, on off on off on off, bad for the chiller ,your tank isnt cooled to the temp you want, and not much benefit is gained,

that was the advice for my particular set up which i am sure is diffrent than yours and perhaps some folks have good luck running sump loop but if you can plumb it t circulat through the tank thts what i would reccomend.

also my set points are off at 77.9 on at 80, all my corals and fish seem to be happy and doing well.

good luck and happy reefing.

kate6 · #22 07/02/2006, 01:51 PM

So, 79-80 is a good temp? Just trying to figure out what they like. Mine seems to run at between 75-78 depending on what time of day it is and if I am just running the actinics or the full lighting. It always seems to be 78 by end of day. It's running on a 10 hour lighting cycle. I have 3 400w - 10k & 2 400w - 20k. I use a 1./3hp Current chiller.

toddmcgill · #23 07/02/2006, 03:51 PM

79 to 80 deg is good, a bit cooler is ok 75 to 78 is probably fine, the biggest thing is consistency and no high end spikes,tems above 82 imho are asking for trouble.it can be done sure i used to keep my old tank without a chiller and it got above 84 on occasion,but it didnt do very well compared to my current setup.
i feel that 78 as a mean average is a good target to shoot for.