DSB vs Bare Bones

[LoneStar45]

I am setting up a new tank and want to do it right. I am cycling this tank and I have about a 1 to 2" sand bed. I used Natures Own Live araganite for a quicker cycle. I also have a deep reef substrate in my sump with Cheatomorha.
Now, Im hearing that doing away with sand altogether is the smarter approach and that DSb's are only asking for trouble.
I know there are as many opinions about this subject as there are aquarists. I want the sand for looks but I dont it to be a source of problems.
What should I do? I really dont want to toss 200.00 worth of sand in the toilet.

[reef-man_d-man]

personally I feel that some sand (2 inches) is nice for looks, I wont start a DSB/Bare Bottom argument, but I will say of the two Bare has worked better for me, and now Im using 2 inches (however that 2 inches has a ton of life in it).

[Agu]

I like the look of sand in a tank.

[mr_e_2u]

DSB takes some knowledge and alot of work, from what Im told where as BB is easy maintance, but I personally think a tank without sand looks sterile and lacks natural beauty.

[squidward1320]

I kinda think it is funny that people are "scared" of DSB tanks. More tanks with a shallow sand bed have crashed then DSB tanks.
Also if your dsb for some reason does "crash" there are plenty of warnings befor it does. I think most people that have a system crash(loseing fish and corals) due to thier dsb do not test often/neglect the tank. But thats just my 02.
There is a million threads going around about this debate. And sadly thier is no winner its just a matter of what you like really.

[ratherbediving]

I agree with Squidward, you should have some warnings if the sand bed is causing a problem. Siphoning out 20 lbs of sand shouldn't be too bad if necessary at some point. In the meantime, it will provide some benefit in the form of some additional biological filtration.

Just so you know-- 1-2 inches doesn't qualify as a DSB, you need to have at least 4-6 inches. Less is fine, it just won't help keep nitrates down, if that is one of your goals.

[olkeller]

I think most BB proponets would say that BB is not the best setup for someone thats new to the hobby or for one first tank

[Jamesurq]

Sand.

It's what's for dinner...

[bertoni]

If the sand isn't causing any problems, I wouldn't suggest tossing it. Eventually, it might become nutrient-rich or solidify, and then you can remove it. I don't like the looks of a bare substrate, so I'm not going to go that way.

[Amphiprionocellaris]

Another vote for sand. BB does have some advantages (as well as disadvantages), but for me, they will never outweigh the look of it. The only really good reason I've heard for going BB is that it allows you to have the extreme flow that some SPS like without causing a sandstorm. Other than that, BB and DSB are basically just twists on the same idea.

[Aquaticman74]

Originally posted by LoneStar45
I really dont want to toss 200.00 worth of sand in the toilet.

IMO better then putting a $200 toilet in your tank, which is exactly what you would be doing.

BB all the way!

[AHBrit]

BB will eventually cover with coraline which would take away the sterile look.

i run a BB and have 0 nitrates and extreme flow @ 12000gph.

in the natural environment the sand is mostly several feet from the corals and fish

[Amphiprionocellaris]

Of course, no one has bothered to ask, but what do you plan to keep? BB are really only arguably helpful over sand beds (and it is extremely debatable) for SPS tanks. For softies and LPS, there's really no reason not to go with sand. Of course, some BB proponents say that all sand beds will fail and just act as nutrient traps, but we have hundreds if not thousands of excellent tanks here to argue otherwise.

[Fmellish]

Is it enough to put a 5" DSB in your refuge? And then leave maybe 1" in your display tank?

I love the look of sand, so I certainly want some in my display tank, but I also want to maximize my vertical space in my display tank. Will a DSB in the refuge/sump provide the same benefit as a DSB in the display tank? I hope so, because that would be a great way to go. Also a DSB would be easier to manage in the sump than in your display tank I would think, just easier to get to.

[bertoni]

The "remote DSB" idea gets discussed a lot, but it's not clear that they work. Most tanks probably don't have the flow to move waste from the main tank to the refugium. Also, the refugium would have to be pretty large (certainly close the the main tank in size) for it to have much effect.

[Fmellish]

Thanks for the feedback.

Anything wrong with having sand just for looks, and not for DSB purposes?

[bertoni]

Not IMO. You might need to remove it eventually if it gets messy, though.

[MiddletonMark]

Originally posted by Amphiprionocellaris
BB are really only arguably helpful over sand beds (and it is extremely debatable) for SPS tanks.

I'd strongly disagree with that, having run both systems. [actually, all three ... DSB, SSB, BB ... presently 2 BB, 1 SSB, 1 DSB ... they're all interesting IMO]

One can run any system bare bottom with success - you just might run it a bit differently.

And frankly, the heavy emphasis on aesthetics is NOT a reason to choose any setup or stocking method. I think a tank looks much better/natural with a few predatory fish.
But looking better doesn't mean it's a good idea - and IMO is a way of thinking that should be discouraged - as it places our visuals over our livestock's well being.

Originally posted by olkeller
I think most BB proponets would say that BB is not the best setup for someone thats new to the hobby or for one first tank

I agree. Given the strong skimming needed, the well positioned flow [doesn't need to be massive], and the balanced import/export ... I tend to think a sandbed gives one a `cushion' ... something useful when just learning stocking, feeding, export, and husbandry.

Also, many just starting the hobby do not want [or can't afford] to buy the strong skimmer that is needed to remove the nutrients before they break down into Nitrates/etc.
---
1-2" is not a DSB, and if putting sand in ... I'd go with 3"+ ... a traditional DSB. Much less, and you're required to regularly vacuum it to remove settled detritus [or it will catch up with you].

My shallow sandbed tank did great for a year + half or so ... very easy and nice. But ... after that point, there was too much trapped detritus and I struggled for quite a while trying to `catch up' on it's removal. In the end, starting with a new substrate was the most effective [only effective?] way to reduce the nutrient problems I was having. A DSB tank can/should run for much longer without [before?] having this problem ... much longer.

Just realize, if going with a sandbed [any system, really] ... there are rules that you should follow to be successful. Some fish/inverts [that predate sandbed creatures] should be avoided until the DSB is mature - and may be best avoided altogether.

Check Dr. Ron's forum for his suggestions, or get into specifics with some successful DSB users [some who are on this thread ]. Any system can be run poorly - and while it may require patience, avoiding some livestock - success is built slowly in a reef tank, and doing things right really pays off in the end.

My 2 cents.

[Amphiprionocellaris]

Originally posted by MiddletonMark
And frankly, the heavy emphasis on aesthetics is NOT a reason to choose any setup or stocking method...looking better doesn't mean it's a good idea - and IMO is a way of thinking that should be discouraged - as it places our visuals over our livestock's well being.

IME many different systems, if done correctly, give pretty much the same results (low nutrients and a good reef environment), they just go about it different ways. Because most of the methods end up being about equally beneficial for the livestock, how the aquarium looks really should enter into the equation (along with ease of maintenance). Although they are first and foremost intended to be good homes for a reef ecosystem, aquariums are also pieces of furniture, and should look pleasing to the aquarist (unless it's a research tank or someting like that).