Do Dwarf Angelfish harems shoal?

[PokerG]

If you have a large enough system to keep 6-10 dwarf angelfish together do they shoal?

I guess you might need something in the tank that made them a little nervous to make them stick together but for the most part I wanted the tank to be fairly peaceful.

Anyone got any experience with trying this? (I am thinking Flame Angels but any Centropyge sp. experience would be useful, and yes I do know the cost)

Gary

[Apparition]

I'm not an expert on the matter, but from what I understand they do not shoal. The females are fairly spread out through the male's territory and the male visits them individually. Someone with more expertise can chime in if I'm wrong, but that's what I've read.

[Peter Schmiedel]

Gary,

they will never schoal! Every fish will establish his area.

What tank size are we thinking off?

[Tyrosinase]

They will never schoal.

[Angel*Fish]

Also if you are thinking 1 male w/6-9 females - that is probably more females than 1 male could keep up with. It's likely that a dominant female would turn male and try to break up the harem stealing some of the females. I'm not sure what size tank you'd need for that - but it'd have to be B I G.

PS Ain't it a shame? Wouldn't we all love a nice school of Potter's angels?

[Rothie]

I was just getting ready to order 5 dwarfs-1 male and 4 females-for my 300G LPS tank.I am considering either potters or multibar.The tank contains 3 fairy wrasses,a few cardinals,a blenny,and a few green-banded gobies.I read an artcle recently that said these angels worked well in small harems.I'll try to find the article.
Is this going to be a problem?

This is the article I was reading
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...hcs3/index.php

[Angel*Fish]

According to S.Michael, Potter's angels occur in nature in harems of 1-8 females.

The multibars (multifasciata) are supposed to be shy fish that like to hang out in caves. It may be difficult finding healthy specimens since they are from deep water & it may be hard to get them to eat.

[PokerG]

Thank you Marie, obviously our resident Angelfish expert. Looks like I will have to go back to Anthias if I want a bright shoal'ing fish. I will probably still have a mated pair of Flames in the tank as I can't help myself.

Gary

[Rothie]

Originally posted by Angel*Fish
According to S.Michael, Potter's angels occur in nature in harems of 1-8 females.

The multibars (multifasciata) are supposed to be shy fish that like to hang out in caves. It may be difficult finding healthy specimens since they are from deep water & it may be hard to get them to eat.

I don't consider a 300G tank anything like nature.
I was hoping to find some input from people who have kept these in groups in a home reef aquarium.Trying to locate these fish(or any fish for that matter)in groups of the correct size and/or sex has been next to impossible. I believe that I have found a reputable source,but I don't want to continue to persue it if it is a futile effort.

[Angel*Fish]

Originally posted by PokerG
Thank you Marie, obviously our resident Angelfish expert. Looks like I will have to go back to Anthias if I want a bright shoal'ing fish. I will probably still have a mated pair of Flames in the tank as I can't help myself.

Gary

What a nice compliment You give me too much credit, though I do have some experience, I've just mostly memorized S.Michael's wonderful book on the subject.

Originally posted by Rothie
I don't consider a 300G tank anything like nature.
I was hoping to find some input from people who have kept these in groups in a home reef aquarium.Trying to locate these fish(or any fish for that matter)in groups of the correct size and/or sex has been next to impossible.

Well, I'm afraid to some degree you are on the cutting edge. S. Michaels' book I think came out in 2004 & before that I believe the general consensus was one Centropyge to the tank. I know not everyone - so don't flame me - The general consensus was obviously wrong but there still aren't enough people doing it who like to share info

As for the nature vs 300g - here's my opinion or rather what I would do. -- I'd buy 2, maybe 3 small angels 1 inch or smaller along with a "male" about 2 inches. I would be afraid to try a bigger group - but that doesn't mean I'm right.
HTH

Maybe try the search function for angels AND harem

[Angel*Fish]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141527&highlight=angel+AND+harem

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...gels+AND+harem

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=311615&highlight=sexing+flame+angels
In the last thread the guy mentions pairs are bad because the male will harass the female - this has not been my experience -- I imagine it has to do with tank size, as does the number of females you can safely add

[Rothie]

Originally posted by Rothie
I was just getting ready to order 5 dwarfs-1 male and 4 females-for my 300G LPS tank.I am considering either potters or multibar.I read an artcle recently that said these angels worked well in small harems.
This is the article I was reading
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/20...hcs3/index.php

That was my original plan.The article by Henry Schultz is excellent and covers many points.I was just trying to find some personal experience.

[Tarasco1]

Did you decide to go through with this? If you haven't yet, I think I would avoid it with the multibar angels. They are pretty delicate and have a hard time dealing with aquarium life in general, although there are the exceptions.

[Rothie]

Tarasco1-
I was planning on doing it with tank bred multi-bars from RCT,but they are no longer breeding them.I think I am going to try it with Potters-my all time favorite.I will wait till there are young ones available.I don't want to deal with anymore fighting than I have to.I don't think the young ones will be available till sometime in the Summer.

[Tarasco1]

Wow, I didn't realize RCT was captive breeding them. I miss my old multibar, he was a cool fish.

Let us know how it works out when you do it.

[cheeks69]

The Potter's isn't as delicate as the multi-bars but it's pretty close.

I don't think the young ones will be available till sometime in the Summer.

I would think the young one's would be even more difficult and probably wouldn't ship very well.

[Rothie]

They will be acclimated and eating well prior to shipping.

[picture the reef]

Originally posted by Rothie
Tarasco1-
I was planning on doing it with tank bred multi-bars from RCT,but they are no longer breeding them.I think I am going to try it with Potters-my all time favorite.I will wait till there are young ones available.I don't want to deal with anymore fighting than I have to.I don't think the young ones will be available till sometime in the Summer.

Is RCT going to be raising Potters? Tell me it's not so.

[Rothie]

I have no idea.

[PatrickB101]

Originally posted by cheeks69
The Potter's isn't as delicate as the multi-bars but it's pretty close.



I would think the young one's would be even more difficult and probably wouldn't ship very well.

i think the exact opposite when it comes to shipping. the younger they are easier everything seems to be

[cheeks69]

Originally posted by PatrickB101
i think the exact opposite when it comes to shipping. the younger they are easier everything seems to be

I guess that depends on how small we're talking about

The last aspect of physical appearance to evaluate is size. While I have already mentioned researching the full adult size of the fish in question, its size at the time of purchase is also very important. Basically, I want a fish that is neither too big nor too small. I want one that's just the right size. I avoid all tiny, baby fishes - the ones typically seen that are under one-inch long... It obviously does not apply to small fishes like gobies, for example, that might not even grow to one-inch as adults, but hopefully you get the basic point, namely, avoid those that are exceptionally small. While these tiny offerings are awfully cute and tempting, there is a tremendously high mortality rate with these baby fishes.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/ft/index.php