New Deodronephthya sp. study group?

charles matthews · #1 02/08/2005, 06:40 PM

I am interested in forming a study group for Dendronepnthya sp. husbandry. Are there others that share this interest? Should it be a thread- or, as I would prefer, a new forum?

graveyardworm · #2 02/08/2005, 11:17 PM

I think I would be interested. What are your plans? What kind of equipment would be required? I'm in the process of setting up new system to accommodate various things perhaps there will be room for a dendro in its own tank connected to common sump, or seperate. I still have one I purchased almost a year ago wasted away almost to nothing but I still see polyp extension on whats left.

mcox33 · #3 02/09/2005, 01:56 PM

I have 2 bought as one divided by the next morning, I glued the unattached piece to a rock so far they are fine. They dropped pieces constantly until I started target
feeding them, Now they are growing and doing fine. I've traded several frags at our reef meetings however I am not sure if any have survived. These are frags that
were attached on their own not glued to large pieces of rubble then left to grow 2 to 6 months in the bottom of my 90 gallon tank, rubble sitting on the sand.

They are beautiful. But I have a tank full of frags as well as what is basically 2 mother colonies.

They are under 8X 55 watt pc lights
2 - actinic blue - and
6 - 10K - as well as
1- 40 watt X 48 inch 100% true actinic 03 blue 03 fluorescent T-12

they are close to a powerhead that pumps about 500 gph and on the same side as the return that returns water accross the top of the rocks towards the powerhead.
The powerhead outlet is about 4 inches down from top of the tanks waterline and 3-5 inches above the dendro and 2-3 inches from back corner seam of the tank, with
the outlet being pointed toward the side glass of the tank. I can post a picture if you like but I'll have to take one first. as I always try to advoid getting the pump in my
tank pics. Dendro about 9 - 12 iches from side glass.

This is a bad pic but all that was readily available

mcox33 · #4 02/09/2005, 02:13 PM

sorry about the size I'm not sure how to get it to post smaller sometimes they do other times they are huge. Feel free to photshop it if you want.

M.Maddox · #5 02/09/2005, 02:40 PM

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=512753

Not even public aquariums can keep them alive with success (e.g. +50% success rate).

charles matthews · #6 02/09/2005, 07:54 PM

I appreciate your replies and information. When sharing information about dendro husbandry, I like to get the following information.1) What species- or if not known, (which is usual), did it come attached to rubble or to rock?-what size of polyps or describe them?- 2) Water flow information. 3) Feeding information. 5) Behavioral observations of interest. 6) How long has the specimen been kept under captive care? ) Filtration/skimmer/refugia information. I would be grateful for your assistance in collecting this kind of information.

One other thing. I am lobbying for our own forum. Any interest?

mcox33 · #7 02/10/2005, 08:26 AM

By the way I watched mine spawn one night a couple of months after I got it and when I moved rock around a few weeks ago I found little specks of them actually growing with 3 or 4 polyps each that actually were open. Don't ask me what I'm doing right or wrong I don't know lfs and the guy who runs out local club says as far as he knows mine is the only healthy one in the valley. But knock on wood cause I don't know why. And not to brag or anything but the things that do the best in my tanks seem to be what shouldn't be in my tank. I actually have an encrusting hard coral that came into lfs on live rock growing and spreading under my pc lighting. If something is different I usually get then go home and get on the computer to research it, but for this one I found no real info so it was guess work so far it is working out fine.

Yes interested in a dendro forum

mcox33 · #8 02/10/2005, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charles matthews
I appreciate your replies and information. When sharing information about dendro husbandry, I like to get the following information.1) What species- or if not known, (which is usual), did it come attached to rubble or to rock?-what size of polyps or describe them?- 2) Water flow information. 3) Feeding information. 5) Behavioral observations of interest. 6) How long has the specimen been kept under captive care? ) Filtration/skimmer/refugia information. I would be grateful for your assistance in collecting this kind of information.

One other thing. I am lobbying for our own forum. Any interest?

Mine was on a rock a little larger than my hand but didn't weigh very much for it's size. When it spit of I got another rock (reef bones type) about the same size and glued the loose piece to it they are both doing fine but the frags do best if left in the bottom of the tank with rubble to attach themselves to if they are glued they will come back off the rock everytime.

graveyardworm · #9 02/10/2005, 09:11 AM

This is a brief description of how I tried to keep mine alive taken from another recent thread.

I had mine in a dedicated tank 50 gals with a plenum/DSB set up to GARF specifications, a 35 gal refuge which drained into the display, about 500 GPH tghrough the fuge. The fuge was full of life pods, worms, cheato, caulerpa, LR, (no skimmer). Tank had about 100 lbs LR, 5 lbs grunge and was full of life, 2 rio 600 for circulation. I tried various circulation schemes, fed DT,s, marine snow, and cyclopeeze. Still my dendro slowly withered away. Oh yeah I also tried the bubble thing, and stirring up detrius in tank and fuge.

Hi mcox33, a more complete description of your tank would be awsome, tank size, skimmer, feeding, fuge or not, sump etc...

I also believe that there are other corals which appear very similar to Dendro, but are relatively easier to keep, have you done anything to verify that you have a Dendro, I think it has something to do with magnification of sclerites, or structure. I do not currently have the technology to verify mine. Thanks

spawner · #10 02/10/2005, 05:16 PM

Charles

Is Erik sending you those papers on the feeding biology?

craab · #11 02/10/2005, 05:23 PM

I have had success with mine. I watched it in the LFS for close to 5 weeks and saw growth over that time. Since I've had it, it has grown more branches off the base and stays inflated close to 90% of the time. I have it in a high flow area hanging from an overhang. I feed it 3 times a week, 2 nights it gets cycopleeze and the 3rd night it gets mysis shrimp/cycopleeze mixture. The base has begun to grow out as well. Not sure which genius species I have, but it resembles this one from the garf site.

http://www.garf.org/36/dendro/sclerites410289.jpg

graveyardworm · #12 02/10/2005, 06:30 PM

Even as mine was perishing it continued to split off babies.

craab, how long have you had it?

Mine looked great for probably 4 months maybe a little longer.

charles matthews · #13 02/11/2005, 09:29 AM

Spawner- I've talked to Erik twice now by phone. A great guy, phycologist and microecologist, doing interesting work on pelagic bacterial culture. I have not received those papers yet- would GREATLY appreciate your forwarading them if possible!

Mary- polyp bailout has been described many times. It's likely that you are seeing a strategy to preserve polyps under adverse conditions rather than growth. It would be interesting to know how old your primary colony is.

charles matthews · #14 02/11/2005, 12:11 PM

Hi Craab

The dendro from Garf was called D. mirabilis by Wilkins- of course the classification sysstem is a mess. To me, the most important thing about this species is the fact that it comes in on rock rather than gravel- and possibly would be happier hanging down. Also, the polyps are extremely small even for a dendro. Wilkins feeds some form of liquid supplement and reports keeping them for four years- he also stirs the substrate superficially. How long have you had yours? What is the tank setup and any refugia? Do you use a skimmer? How long have you had it?

mcox33 · #15 02/11/2005, 12:32 PM

I got it last april for my bithday.
I've had it almost a year now and it doesn't really drop babies anymore unless I move it around ( it dropped 2 after a total tank redo last month- you know take
all the rock out of tank and rebuild the wall I haven't taken any pictures since but here is a picture of the tank before the rebuild)

It is in my 90 gallon tank

Wet/dry sump filter with cap 2200 pump recently upgraded to
tidepool II with a mag 7 I think Possible just mag 5

each back corner has a 320 gph circulation pump

running a 9 Watt UV 24/7
and the
Jebo Quad protien skimmer with the pump supplied with the skimmer

just this week added the ozonator 10 to the air inlet of the protien skimmer
I have approximately 300 - 400 hundred pounds of live rock (160 reef bones, the rest came from a S. Carolina beach low tide inside water line)
no fuge at least not yet

Lighting is 8 X 55 watts each PC's and 2 are actinic the rest 10K
and
1 X T-12 100% True Actinic 40 watt 48 inch bulb

feeding

I feed a mix our lfs's coral guru devised made from crushed marine flakes soaked in water let settle skim the liquid add reef plus and invert food (seachem I think)
and sometimes frozen brine shrimp

I feed this about 3 times per week sometimes more often sometimes less often

Actually our club and LFS called it the mystery coral until the LFS guru figured it out and he had a frag of it that he used to make this determination.
He seems real sure that it is dendro

As for spawning yes I'm sure that is what it was. The two of them wrapped their tentacles together and then from those wrapped tentencles the cloud
of smokey looking stuff started raising up through the water a few weeks later I started finding small ones that were to far away and to small to have dropped off
the original colony there is no other explanation. to bad I was to afraid of missing the event to get the digital video camera
It was just a cheapo and probably wouldn't have caught the cloud anyway

spawner · #16 02/11/2005, 06:19 PM

Charles,

Here are a few close-ups from Erik's tank.

Most are nearly 3 months. Lots of growing babies.

Email me your address and I'll get you the papers.

andy

mcox33 · #17 02/11/2005, 07:19 PM

is that the yellow one? mine is pinkish purple

mcox33 · #18 02/15/2005, 07:06 PM

Did someone get the forum started or what happened???

DonJasper · #19 02/16/2005, 12:23 PM

Quote:

One other thing. I am lobbying for our own forum. Any interest?

I think that an arguement could be made that a non-photosynthetic forum would be appropriate given the SPS (aka reef back zone) forum. The LPS (aka lagoon zone) forum. This could cover the deep fore reef zone.

charles matthews · #20 02/16/2005, 12:31 PM

I started this idea hoping to attract enough interest for our own forum. I think a more organized forum would be very interesting. I have a long standing interest in Dendronephthya species particularly, and non photosynthetic ecology in general. Very little is known aboout so much of this.

I do feel that posting observations could be helpful in learning about Dendronephthya husbandry. I hope you all will encourage development of a nonphotosynthetic forum!

Does anyone have information about the physiology/anatomy of the gastrovascular channels?

Another question- anyone have some good experience with fragging?

Chip

graveyardworm · #21 02/16/2005, 12:59 PM

I think a forum to cover non photosynthetic coral would be great, but I would hate to see alot of aquarists suddenly get the confidence to go out and start purchasing dendros and the like where most tend to perish. I think a better plce to start maybe to put together a small group with the ability to conduct proper research and experiments, and start a permanent sticky thread to report to. I can say that I really woudnt know where to start. Perhaps with guidance of someone such as Eric Borneman or another. From everything I've read corals such as dendros can be a touchy subject for some. Without the proper controls it may be hard to get expert help here. Plus I'm sure that people such as Eric are extremely busy and may feel that they just dont have the time to do this right.

I myself would love to be able to keep varios non photo corals because they are some of the most beautiful coral, but with my first Dendro attempt ending in failure and with knowledge I have now I just cant bring myself to purchase another one unless its going to be with specific purpose and with the possibility of having it survive. So if we can put together a plan I'm in, but if its going to be every man for himself I just cant do it.

mcox33 · #22 02/17/2005, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by charles matthews

Another question- anyone have some good experience with fragging?

Chip

I tried cutting a piece that appeared to be dropping off anyway, when I first got mine didn't work. It didn't do anything just slowly got smaller and smaller then disappeared altogether. After that I let them do their own thing and when the pieces came off I put them on the sand and rubble in the bottom of my tank they attached themselves within days and I could then glue the rubble to a larger piece and put it where ever I want it in the tank.

DonJasper · #23 02/17/2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by graveyardworm
I think a forum to cover non photosynthetic coral would be great, but I would hate to see alot of aquarists suddenly get the confidence to go out and start purchasing dendros and the like where most tend to perish.

Well any forum for non photosynthetic corals would read like an "agongy column" - to borrow and Sherlock Holmes term - and any confidence that these aquarists get will not be from reading the tales of woe from that forum. Given that humans have a remarkable ability to be both very foolish and blinding clever both at the same time - eventually there may be a glimmer of hope in the forum. But not at first.

graveyardworm · #24 02/18/2005, 01:19 PM

Thank you Don Jasper, very well said. I do believe there is a light at the end of the tunnel, hopefully closer than it seems. I think just reading this thread alone may give someone the confidence to go out and get one even though the people reporting here dont really seem to know what they're doing right. We are keeping corals now with ease which a decade ago were thought to be impossible.

By the way do know of any good P-shrimp recipes mine are ready to go.

craab · #25 02/18/2005, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by graveyardworm
Even as mine was perishing it continued to split off babies.

craab, how long have you had it?

Mine looked great for probably 4 months maybe a little longer.

Had it for two months now, and I'm not sure if any others have witnessed this, but mine has actually begun to grow out and up from under the overhang I have it hanging from. Anybody else seen this happening?