Help Please - Baby clowns - Page 2

agsansoo · #26 08/30/2007, 12:26 AM

Update:
What a difference one day makes. I went from around 60 + larval when I collected them on Sunday night. To about 10 alive by day 3. Most were still alive yesterday. I would take a picture, but their so small you can't see them in my photos. The larval look darker in color, almost black.

xxpipedreamxx · #27 08/30/2007, 12:44 AM

Keep us updated

Hopefully you can get pics up soon.

agsansoo · #28 08/31/2007, 10:53 AM

Update:
This is so frustrating ! Day 2 I had 60+ alive, day 3 only ten alive, day 4 two alive. Today, day 5 I have none. This is worst odds than the fry left in the tank ! They're still alive. I'm at a lost for answers. I need to research this further.

My rotifer tank is getting a brownish gunk on the bottom of the tank. Do I need to feed them less ? Clean it out ? Or transfer the rotifers to a new holding tank ?

tedr · #29 08/31/2007, 01:05 PM

I would suggest doing away with using one tank for your rotifer culture. If it should crash, you have to start over from scratch. Try splitting your culture between 4 - 5 containers. I use 1g square plastic containers from Dollar General or Big Lots that contain bottled water. Use rigid air line for each container running from bottom of container through the cap. Then run flex air line to a 4/5 gang valve. You do have to clean out gunk from bottom of containers every couple of weeks. Have some extra containers available. Slowly empty approx 75% of the culture container into a clean container and top off with fresh salt water. In essence, you're doing a periodic water change. You are trying to feed your rotifers whenever their water turns a light green. If you don't clean your containers regularly, they get a film on the sides so that you can't really tell the true color of the water. I just rinse out the used containers and then soak them in a weak bleach solution. When done, just thoroughly rinse them out.

agsansoo · #30 08/31/2007, 01:24 PM

Thanks tedr ! I will buy some small containers tonight. One more question. Do you feed the rotifers first, then feed the fry ? If so. After you feed the rotifers, how long do you wait to feed them to the fry tank ?

Pugidogs · #31 08/31/2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by agsansoo
Update:
This is so frustrating ! Day 2 I had 60+ alive, day 3 only ten alive, day 4 two alive. Today, day 5 I have none. This is worst odds than the fry left in the tank ! They're still alive. I'm at a lost for answers. I need to research this further.

My rotifer tank is getting a brownish gunk on the bottom of the tank. Do I need to feed them less ? Clean it out ? Or transfer the rotifers to a new holding tank ?

I FEEL YOU'RE PAIN !!! We will figure this out though. Any more eggs yet? Pugi

tedr · #32 08/31/2007, 04:57 PM

From what I've read, feed your fry approximately 4 hours after you've fed your rotifers LIVE phyto. This gives your fry the optimum nutritional value from the rotifers. Also, add live phyto to your fry tank I would say for at least the first week. This way your feeding the rotifers in the fry tank while the fry are learning how to hunt them, and you're also eliminating an eventual die off of rotifers. The live phyto does not seem to bother the fry. I'll also use the phyto in the larval tank when it's time to feed brine shrimp. Seems to extend their life span.

I stress LIVE phyto, because in between harvesting rotifers for the fry tank, I will feed the rotifers alternate foods such as non-living phyto or a very blended mixture of yeast, flour, and fish food pellets. Since I get my live phyto from DT, it does cut down on the expense. One drawback from the mixture, it may speed up the need to do a rotifer container water change due to the crud that settles.

agsansoo · #33 08/31/2007, 05:13 PM

Pugi,
No eggs this morning before I left for work. Though they were cleaning the rock again with their mouths last night. They usually spawn during the day. I will post pic's if they do.

agsansoo · #34 08/31/2007, 05:14 PM

Thank tedr for all your help and info. I will keep trying until I get this right ...!

Pugidogs · #35 08/31/2007, 05:42 PM

I am using IA. I did try to put a little in the larvae tank and within 30 minutes I found 20 dead larvae. This was the begining of the end so I dont know if it was the IA or lack of rotifers. I dont think I will put any in this next time. Pugi

tedr · #36 08/31/2007, 08:39 PM

Pugi, I take it IA is instant algea? I've used live phyto in the larval tank with absolutely no problems. Can't speak for the IA.

agsansoo · #37 09/08/2007, 01:12 AM

Update:
While the forth batch of eggs are ready to hatch. So far out of the previous three hatches, I have one lone survivor in a 5 gallon tank. All larvae from the third hatch that I put in the 5 gallon tank last week, died. Survivors from the first and second hatch (which the single survivor is one) are all doing well in the the main display tank. I watch with amazement, all the little fry swimming around the rocks and coral. I think I will stop trying to catch them from now on. Not sure how this will turn out.

barelycuda · #38 09/08/2007, 07:18 PM

When you move the larvae from your display tank to the 5g fry tank is the water from the display? Also is the temp the same? I have raised approx 700 ocellaris now from the last 5 hatches & might be able to help if you want. I do not even begin to know it all but have done a lot of reading & have had some success.

agsansoo · #39 09/08/2007, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by barelycuda
When you move the larvae from your display tank to the 5g fry tank is the water from the display? Also is the temp the same? I have raised approx 700 ocellaris now from the last 5 hatches & might be able to help if you want. I do not even begin to know it all but have done a lot of reading & have had some success.

Yes the water was from the display tank. Temp was the same also. The lone survivor in the grow-out tank was siphoned from the display tank after the first hatch. He is still small, and hides under the sponge filter 99% of the time when the light is on. Not sure what he does with the moon lights on. I also read somewhere that the growth rate of maroon clowns is much slower than ocellaris. Anyone know if this is true ?

kerusso316 · #40 09/09/2007, 12:22 AM

You need to get hem laying on a tile.Terracotta plate.your fish will reject it in the beginning.They will love it in time.

agsansoo · #41 09/09/2007, 12:49 AM

Getting them out of the tank is no longer the problem. It's keeping them alive after they're in the grow-out tank.

tedr · #42 09/09/2007, 09:15 AM

Might consider using a sponge filter much later in their develoment. Everything I've read suggests doing daily water changes for the first few months. If a sponge filter can screen out particulate, it may also do the same with young fry that are really not that strong with swimming yet. Also, the filter is depleting your population of rotifers and/or brine shrimp. I wait for approximately 2 months plus before using a sponge filter for oscellaris. One recommendation I've read says to start using sponge filter after the fry are weaned off of live food.

barelycuda · #43 09/09/2007, 09:38 PM

Maroons do take longer to grow out than ocellaris. I would not introduce a sponge filter until the larvae are at least 14 days old. A daily water change of around 10-20% should be more than adequate. Their diet should be rotifers (live) for the first 7-8 days. On day 7 or 8 you can introduce newly hatched brine. Always overlap the old & new foods for at least a week when changing foods. Personally I would try to steer away from any yeast, flour or dry fish food as nutrition for the rotifers.(I am not in any way trying to devalue any one elses opinion but this is what I have learned from numerous conversations & research. Everyone here is trying to help but all have different experience.) You have to remember that the larvae are consuming whatever you feed the rotifers & yeast based food have no nutritional value so the larvae are expending energy to eat with no value. The yeast based rotifer foods also can foul the water quality much faster if the rotifers are overfed.

kerusso316 · #44 09/10/2007, 12:12 AM

The reasion you are loosing fish in the first 5 days is stress and low food.You will have better success if you get them laying on a tile.EGGS are easy to move when on a tile.They do not die.You can take them right out of the water,walk around set them in the new tank.This is possible because the egg protects the embryo.The egg slows the environmental change.When you move a baby they stress and die.You cant see why they Just die.You can rase some fish with a snagger but your numbers will be low.It takes the same amount of work to raise 20 as it does 400.Ther are many things you should be working on at once.First introduce the tile....Trust me.Second, you should set a uniform way to feed and care for your rotifers.Feed the same amount to them at the same time every day.They will get use to your habbits.They will multiply.Third Get a nano. culture going.When your eggs are two days from hatch set the tank up,Add rotifers[Like 20 per square inch]. and live nano.Your rotifers will get use to the new environment and flourish.You want the water in the hatch tank to stay VERY GREEN[use paste IA or live for this].This will feed your rotifers as they are eaten in the day.The rotifers will rebound overnight.You want to use your rotifier culture to supplement the tank not feed it.If you try to keep the rotifer culture fed for the babies it will be too much Phyto and will foul.Dont try to raise clowns."Raise rotifers" and the clowns will do the rest.Last order some good quality artemia eggs and a samplers pack of otohime from Reed Macroculture.If you do these things you will need the oto.There are many ways to raise fish.This way is proven by some of the top breaders.I raise Onyx Percs.I copy those who do it for a living.I hope this helps You and others........Mitch

barelycuda · #45 09/10/2007, 01:23 AM

Thanks Mitch. I second the Otohime. I have several sizes & that is the primary food for my ocellaris juvies once they are weaned off of bbs. I am averaging ocellaris growout to 1" in approx 13-14 weeks.

Dave

kerusso316 · #46 09/10/2007, 10:51 AM

Nice.... My percs take 7 weeks just to get there second stripe.I keep them on Nano enriched 3 day old brine,oto and cyclo for the entire 7 weeks. I get better baring that way.

agsansoo · #47 09/10/2007, 12:34 PM

barelycuda and kerusso316,
Thanks for all the info and help. What type of tile should I buy. Is there any tiles that contain metals or mold inhibitors ?

tedr · #48 09/10/2007, 03:53 PM

Let me throw out another alternative, and that's a 3" clay flower pot. My clowns seem to like it because it's much easier to "defend" if there are other inhabitants in tank. The pot comes with a small hole in the bottom to insert air line once in fry tank. Only problem would be if laying site does not allow the placement of the pot nearby. Luckily, my clowns' anemone is in the corner of a tank on a few pieces of rock, and it is easy to place pot next to anemone.

Atticus · #49 09/10/2007, 07:43 PM

Have you bought Wilkerson's book? The hardest part of raising fry is the first week. You pull them through that and you have it made (well as made as a breeder can...). It sounds like you are either getting mechanical damage of the fry in the growout tank or they are not eating. What do you see them doing? How are they reacting to light? You want them to sit in the middle of the water column only using energy to dart 1/2 a body length for rotifers. I too suggest live phyto use in growout. It keeps the water cleaner, feeds the rots, and has the added advantage of diffusing the light. Best advice though is to read Wilkerson's Clownfishes and read the old threads on breeding clownfish. If you need to narrow the search look for my name, JHardman, Ediaz, or any of the "old timers".

barelycuda · #50 09/10/2007, 09:30 PM

All of the breeders that I deal with are laying in a clay flower pot. I move them the night of the hatch & install a small airstone through the center of the flower pot & keep a steady fine mist of bubbles moving the eggs. Here is a pic of my last batch after I added some nano the morning of the first day. One thing I have noticed by hatching this way is that almost all of the eggs hatch over 2 evenings.