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  #1  
Old 01/09/2008, 02:29 AM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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Location: Lehi, Utah
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My Banggai Breeding Journal

Let me start off by telling you a little about my mated pair of Banggais... I bought them approx. 6 months ago; they were just 2 Banggais in a dealer tank with maybe 10 others... I guess I just got "lucky" as I had no idea when I bought them that I had even gotten a male and a female. In fact, until the first spawning, they looked basically identical, except one (the male) was maybe 1/4" longer than the other (the female). They lived happliy in my 125g Mixed reef along with a couple of Tangs, 2 Dwarf Angels, a pair of Oscellaris Clowns, a 6-Line Wrasse and a Yellow - Tailed Damsel.

Here is a pic of my Reef tank from a few months back:



Anyway, I always hoped I might have a pair but was not sure by any means. The 2 Banggais did spend alot of time in the same area of the tank, but were by no means inseparable. I had asked around on how to sex these fish, and was told that the only differences were the length of the second dorsal "thread" (spine?); the males should be longer - and the male should have a "huskier" appearing face compared to the female. Males are also usually a bit larger, but if the 2 fish are not the same age than that is not always an accurate way to sex them.

In my case, the 2 fishes had dorsal threads that looked right around the same length, so I was thinking "both are either males or females"... the slightly larger one did look a little bigger in the face, though.

So I at least had some hope...
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125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB
  #2  
Old 01/09/2008, 02:40 AM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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11/09/2007 - Day One

When I went to feed my tank (as usual), I thought I noticed 2 odd things:

1) One of my 2 Banggais did not coming rushing to the water surface to eat, and actually was hiding from view behind one of my Anenomes. As I watched further I noticed foods floating right past the area and the fish was not darting out to grab them... my first thought was "Uh Oh is the fish sick?" because they always eat...

2) When I looked around the side glass of the tank I could see something different about the fish. The "chin" (if fish had chins) was sort of sticking out and the fish was breathing a little different than normal. It looked like he had a mouth full of marbles or something

I wrote in to my local website and reported these observations... a few people posted back that "if he doesn't eat he is carrying eggs..." While I was excited at the prospect I was still not convinced. I mean, I didn't see any spawning behaviors recently; nothing obvious, anyway. And the other Banggai was acting perfectly "normal" swimming about and eating like a pig.

I figured I'd just wait until tomorrow and wait to see if the one fish ate or not...


(Next... now I'm sure!)
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125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB

Last edited by carlso63; 01/09/2008 at 02:53 AM.
  #3  
Old 01/09/2008, 02:52 AM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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11/11/ 2007 - Day Three

By the 3rd day I knew something was definitely up. For a few reasons:


1) The male had still not eaten. Now it was 3 days in a row. Definitely not normal for him

2) He started to come out a bit from behind the rockwork and I was able to snap a good pic of his full mouth:



Everyone who saw the pic said, "Yep, he is holding eggs"... so I felt pretty confident

3) Now the females behavior had changed a little, too... she started staying by the males side alot more; only venturing away from him at feeding time. If she percieved a threat (like when I got too close to the tank glass, or stuck my hand in to move a coral, etc) she would swim alongside the male tightly, almost touching side-to-side, like this:



And now you could see the difference in appearance between the 2 fish was obvious. So it was time to decide on what to do about trying to catch the male and (hopefully) get a live "birth" and raise some babies!




(Tomorrow, setting up the "nursery tank"...)
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125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB
  #4  
Old 01/09/2008, 02:59 PM
Avalanche Wolf Avalanche Wolf is offline
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Well , dont you think you have kept us in waiting long enough ?

I plan on trying this speicies after I finish with the OC Clowns
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I need to start moding my truck again. It was so much cheaper than this hobby !
  #5  
Old 01/09/2008, 10:43 PM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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Location: Lehi, Utah
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11/20/2007 - Day 11

Setting up the Nursery Tank


If you ever seen pictures of my reef tank you may have noticed I tend to do things a little differently than most... for example, my sump for my 125g display is not under the tank (like most) or plumbed remotely to another room - it is level with and right behind my main tank, like this:



Basically, I use siphon tubes on one end to bring water into the sump, then the first compartment houses the skimmer; the second the lighted refugium; and the third has the heaters, a topoff station and the return to the main tank... which, in my case, is 2 Fluval 404 canisters which run nothing but carbon in them. So again, a little different than most. The only change I have made from this pic is I chucked the "homemade" PVC siphon tubes in favor of some clear plastic overflow tubes.

One nice thing about this arrangement is that it is basically impossible to cause a flood due to sump return pump failure or loss of siphon on the input.

I also have chosen to run a plenum under the sandbed of my display. Have done so for decades now; always have "0" nitrates / phosphates - never had a problem with a "crash". So it works for me, quite well...

Anyway, back to the nursery tank setup.

One of the things that I was worried about with a seperate tank for the fry was how to keep it clean and the water "healthy" for the fry - without having to do daily water changes to fight off ammonia or organics buildup. I didn't want to risk losing babies because I forgot to do a water change and their little nursery tank got an ammonia spike or something.

And then there's filtration, heating, etc... what a pain it could be to have to set all this up...

So I ended up doing a nursery tank setup based on my sump setup. I decided that a 10g tank should be large enough to house and rear the fry - at least until they got large enough to put in with adult sized fish, anyway. I built a 2 X 4 stand for the 10g and placed it level with and right next to the side of my display (as the back was already taken up by the sump). Another siphon tube to send a constant supply of aged, zero nH3 / nO2 / nO3 / pO4 saltwater into the tank; a small powerhead to pump it back out of the tank... like this:

Note the nursery tank on the left side of the display



Side view of the nursery tank. You can see the input siphon, return powerhead, a small airstone (to keep the water surface from getting stagnant) and a media bag over the powerhead strainer (to avoid sucking in any fry) and a little sprig of chaeto to give the fry some cover




Top view showing the filtration / water exchange system



So, with my male now carrying for 11 days, most of the hard prep work was done... but the waiting continued...
__________________
125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB
  #6  
Old 01/10/2008, 12:35 AM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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11/27/2007 - Day 18

The next task I needed to figure out was how to catch the male Banggai and get him into the nursery tank without stressing him out and causing him to drop or eat the egg clutch... and not wrecking my reef in the process...

It was suggested that the best way to accomplish this was to "stun" the fish with light. Wait until nightfall and turn off all the tank lights (including moonlights) for at least one hour. Then, suddenly turn them back on and the fish will be blinded by the light for about 30 or 40 seconds... that should give you enough time to net the fish without it even realizing what was going on.

Well, the light 'trick' worked like a charm... total darkness for an hour or so, then I flipped on the PC actinics, and the fish all just kind of "froze"...scooped the "Papa" right out:

Here he is in his new (temporary) home:




Interestingly enough, in the display Papa stayed mainly on the right end of the tank once he started carrying; that end has a Frogspawn, a few Hammer corals, a Wall Bubble, a little less flow - I guess he felt safer with all that cover...
"Mama" would stay in his general vicinity most of the time, except to feed.
Now that Papa is in the nursery tank - on the left end of the display...
Guess where Mama has now taken up residence?




When the 2 see each other through the glass, Mama does a little 'shimmy' dance - and the Papa does it right back
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125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB
  #7  
Old 01/10/2008, 12:51 AM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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11/28/2007 - Day 19

If you take a look back to the last picture in the last post you may notice that the male Banggai's dorsal thread appears to be longer than it was previously... I noticed that, too - it had grown maybe a half-inch or more since the spawning. At first I was puzzled about why this would happen; but, later on, I think I figured it out. My theory is this:

When the adult fish are not spawning or carrying eggs they are just like every other fish in the tank. Darting arond the tank, chasing after food, sometimes chasing each other. I think what happens with the males - and the reason these fish are so hard to sex most of the time - is that during the normal feeding behavior other fish may be nipping off this dorsal thread while they are chasing down food. Maybe it even looks like "food" to them; wiggling around above the fish. Once the spawning occurs, however, the male loses interest in eating and becomes alot more reclusive in general. Since it no longer participates in the local "feeding frenzy" at mealtimes, his dorsal thread no longer gets nipped off by other fish, and thus starts to grow longer and longer like it would be in nature.

Now when I look at the pair the difference in the length of that dorsal thread - once basically identical in length - is now obvious.

Other than that revelation, today was a quiet day. Nothing changed re: the male carrying; still not eating, at home in the nursery, female by his side in the display... some of the literature I read said the hatching could have come as early as 17 - 18 days, so now I know we are getting close...
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125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB
  #8  
Old 01/10/2008, 01:00 AM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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11/29/2007 - Day 20

The First Babies


UPDATE:

when I got home from work, a little after midnight, I checked the nursery. Initially I saw something tiny and "shiny" on the glass bottom... after further examination I realized it was a baby... however, it looks like it was spit out too early...

I gave the entire 10g nursery a very close visual and counted a total of 5 underdeveloped 'larvae' scattered along the bottom... 3 look like tiny tadpoles and their yolk sacs are still quite large - they are laying on the bottom and occasionally "wriggling" a bit. I actually witnessed one of these getting "shot out" of the males gills... 1 looks like a curled up baby (this is the first one I saw above), and 1 looks like it is already dead - as it doesn't move and I don't see any signs of breathing or heartbeat.

Not what I was expecting to find, having read up on the reports that the fry should be swimming around upon release, looking for food - and should look like little copies of the adults.

However, the good news is that the male still has a very full mouth and did not appear spooked or unduly stressed. I feel it is possible that what I witnessed is part of a natural "culling" behavior, or maybe once the majority of eggs hatch they somehow get the unhatched ones "pushed out" or something... and at least now I'm sure there indeed was a viable spawning and that I truly have a mated pair

So, as long as I don't wake up tomorrow to a whole bunch of underdeveloped larvae all over the tank floor, I'm not freaking out.... yet.

Will update again in the morning
__________________
125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB
  #9  
Old 01/10/2008, 01:17 AM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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12/01/2007 - Day 22

By the 3rd day after those 5 babies were released prematurely 4 of them had died... they just wiggled around the first day a bit; a little less on the 2nd day, and died by day 3.

Not the best news - but, then again, not totally unexpected either...

There was one sole survivor left... he is the one that exhibited the most motion over the last few days. If he makes it I guess we'll name him "Lucky":




In this pic you can plainly see the yolk sac. There is only one of him; it's just his reflection on the bare glass bottom of the nursery tank.

Unfortunately, even "Lucky" wasn't so lucky - he died 2 days later...

So now it was around Day 24 since the spawning. Some folks were saying that maybe there weren't going to be any more babies; maybe those 5 were it, maybe the rest were lost since it was the first spawning, etc. But my male still had a full looking mouth; he still wasn't eating... and I wasn't about to put him back in the display tank just yet.

But I have to say that around this time it started to feel like he was never gonna have those babies...
__________________
125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB
  #10  
Old 01/10/2008, 01:36 AM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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Location: Lehi, Utah
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12/06/2007 - Day 27

Finally some SUCCESS


Today my wife called me at work, almost hysterical...

"A baby came out, a baby came out!"

This time, it was fully formed, swimming around a bit, looked like a tiny replica of the adults. When I got home I fed it some newly hatched baby brine and it ate like a little pig

I managed to snap a picture of it... it looks orangeish due to all the brine naupli it had eaten:



It was about 1/4" long. Looked perfectly healthy. But where were the rest? The male still had a mouthful of something, that was for sure. I turned off the lights and went to bed figuring maybe he would let the rest out in the dark.

Changing the subject a little, let me just share this tip about hatching the baby brine.

I had gotten one of those cheapie hatch kits that is nothing more than basically an upside down pop bottle with the end cut off, and a plastic base with an airline so you can hook up an air pump to circulate the eggs... one of the things I was concerned about was how to keep the hatchery water warm enough to get a good yield of naupli. The instructions said to use a spotlight or incandescent bulb to heat the water. Well, I didn't have one of those handy, so I tried a different idea which ended up working out great. I put the hatchery in my sump ... this way, the 78 degree sump water acted to heat the egg water in that pop bottle and keep the temperature constant. I had to drill a small hole in that plastic base to allow the air bubble trapped under the base to get out, and I filled the hatchery with enough water so the water level in the hatchery was an inch higher than the water level in my sump. This way the hatchery wouldn't act like a boat and "float" around the sump.

I have to say it worked like a charm. I got great full yields from the brine eggs, didn't need a light to mess with, when I needed to change the hatchery water I just lifted the whole thing out of the sump and added new water, salt and eggs to start the next batch.

Brilliant!
__________________
125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB
  #11  
Old 01/10/2008, 01:57 AM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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12/07/2007 - Day 28

This morning we woke up to 1 more baby released (2 total)... the male had his mouth almost completly agape and you could see several more just "hanging out" in there. But they would not come out

I did notice that the 2nd baby was maybe 1 mm smaller than the 1st one to come out. I reasoned that is because the 1st one has been gorging itself on baby brine for the last 36 hrs while the 2nd one was still inside the males mouth, not getting any food...

Spent the whole rest of the day waiting, waiting, waiting.....


But so far just the 2. And the male still looks "pregnant"
__________________
125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB
  #12  
Old 01/10/2008, 02:13 AM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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12/08/2007 - Day 29

OK, everybody out of the pool...NOW!


My patience was beginning to wear thin by now. We had 2 healthy baby Banggais out and about, I could see little heads poppping in and out of the male's mouth... but they wouldn't come out. I had read a few accounts of people "stripping" the babies from the adult or scaring him into spitting them out. I was also a little concerned for the male himself. Everything I had read said this was going longer than average. He had not eaten anything now in almost a month and was looking a bit thinner for sure.

So, with that in mind, and thinking about the idea of "assisting" the male by netting him and holding him up by the tail, I figured it was high time to try.
Obviously the fry were all full-term now; the male has been holding for 29 days now - enough is enough.

Netting him in an otherwise barren 10g tank was easy enough; he didn't even flinch when I guided the net over him. When I grabbed his tail, however, the male (instinctively?) snapped his jaws shut - right on the seam of the net

I actually had to place the net back in the tank, him hanging from it - and wait about 3 minutes for him to relax his grip... when he did poof! out shot the rest of the brood

We ended up counting a total of 12 fry, all swimming about and checking out their new home. I also noticed 1 more fry that apparently may have been partially sticking out of the males mouth the moment that the male snapped his jaws shut, and was partially crushed... it was still breathing, but may have been injured too severly to survive (it was just sitting on its side on the bottom and did not appear able to swim - maybe it will recover but I have my doubts)...

So it appears that in total I have 12 healthy fry, plus the 1 questionable one, and there were those 5 'preemies' from last week that didn't survive... a total brood of 18 fry. About average, according to Dr. Marini.

I placed the male back into the main display. He had done a good job and now he could go back to eating and whatever else fish do...

And don't you know the minute he hits the display water, the female "hoochie mama" comes zooming over to him, wagging her tail like an overexcited puppy dog and doing that "sexy shimmy dance" all over again !!!

Slow dowwwwnnnn, honey... he just got off a month of hard work...give the poor guy a friggin' break

(Just like a woman, I guess )
__________________
125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB
  #13  
Old 01/10/2008, 02:22 AM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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12/10/2007

2 Days Old - the First Pics

Here are a few pics of the 12 babies happily swimming about the nursery tank:








They are being fed 4 times a day on live baby brine... they are all eating, all healthy... the adults both look happy to be back together; the male started eating within a half hour of reintroduction to the display tank.

I was cautioned that perhaps it wasn't a wise decision to put the male right back in with the female so soon. Others isolate their males for a month or so to allow him time to eat well, "fatten up" and get his strength back before they spawn again. In my case, I really didn't have anywhere else to put him, other than the sump.

(Little did I know...)
__________________
125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB
  #14  
Old 01/10/2008, 02:37 AM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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12/14/2007 - 6 Days Old


Just 6 days since the release and they already look bigger:






If you look real carefully in the second pic, you can see both Banggai parents still keeping watch on their brood through the glass of the display (look to the far left past the algae covered siphon tube and through all that salt creep) - along with a few other fish who are looking in and thinking "lunch!"



These little buggers are fat ; they still get fed 3 to 4 times a day with live baby brine... I would say they seem to have grown 2 or 3 mm in size already. They seem to know they are "safe" in the nursery, as they no longer hide in the corners of the tank but now school right in the center of the nursery. When I walk past the tank a few even swim towards the top like they know that's where the food comes from

And so far this plumbed-in nursery tank idea is working beautifully... no organic build up in the nursery; no pesky water changes needed, everybody is doing great! About the only bad thing is the salt creep that has developed in between the 2 tanks; I noticed that my powerhead return piping has a tiny leak and once in a while a drop of water drips down and hits the glass... when it eveaporates it leaves a tiny salt spot. Over time, it becomes a little larger and makes for a sloppier appearance.

Once the babies are out I will take apart that (homemade) return piping and actually glue it together to eliminate the leak.

But - other than that - I'd say it turned out great
__________________
125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB
  #15  
Old 01/10/2008, 02:50 AM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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12/17/2007

Here We Go... AGAIN


Long story short -

Well, they did it again!

Another spawning

This time, I got to see all the "preliminaries" and mating behavior.

Interestingly enough, the female appears to be the agressor and instigator of the spawning. She repeatedly brushes up against the males side and does a little "trembling" motion back and forth to gain his interest...

Got all ready to witness the actual spawn... wife called from the kitchen "Dinner is ready" so I hurriedly wolfed down my meal so I could get back to the action in my Reef. Got my camera all ready, and...

Dontcha know it?! Already done! Full mouth and all...




Rats!
__________________
125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB
  #16  
Old 01/10/2008, 03:00 AM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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01/01/2008

Here's a few new shots of those babies, taken New Years Day evening with only the actinic lighting on the display tank (I used a flash)... they are now 24 days old-

Here they are waiting to be fed (again):



The largest fry are just under 3/4" long (nose to tail), the rest are maybe 1/8" shorter... they all school together - no fighting or aggression.
All the fry are eating both the live baby brine as well as frozen Cyclopeeze
- and even a little flake!



They are pretty inquisitive, too and will slowly swim up towards the
front glass if you put your face near it; I guess they already know that
people = food
__________________
125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB
  #17  
Old 01/10/2008, 08:40 AM
ShannHell ShannHell is offline
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sounds like they are doing great! Its awesome that they are already beginning to eat prepared foods. I had four babies given to me and I still can't get them to eat prepared foods and they are going on 3 months now. Argh!
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  #18  
Old 01/10/2008, 06:58 PM
sayn3ver sayn3ver is offline
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very inspiring. Do pajama cardinals have a similar breeding habits/requirements?
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  #19  
Old 01/10/2008, 09:36 PM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by sayn3ver
very inspiring. Do pajama cardinals have a similar breeding habits/requirements?
I have never kept Pajamas myself but I believe they breed in a similar manner...
__________________
125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB
  #20  
Old 01/10/2008, 10:13 PM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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01/07/2008

1 Month Old

The fry are now 1 month old and eat frozen Cyclopeeze for the most part - with occasional feedings of live baby brine (when I remember to start a culture) and I have even offered some crumbled flake food a few times. Some of the fry ate the flake, some just ignored it.

In recent news - I have started to sell of this brood of babies already. While I would have liked to have waited a bit longer to allow them to grow larger, I need the nursery tank for the next brood - which is due anytime after the 12th of January (probably around the 16th or so)...

Here is the most recent pic I have:



That photo was taken by one of our local Aqurium Club members... she bought a pair of the babies (as have several others). Of the 12, I only have 6 left in the nursery; the others have all found new homes. The remaining 6 fish are already spoken for, and all will be gone by the 12th...

She also got a good shot of the (once again) expectant parents, who still, even now, spend most of their time alongside the nursery tank keeping watch on the first brood:



Once again you can clearly see the males expanded throat "pouch"... BTW, after he releases the fry it very quickly goes back to the normal size and then it becomes more difficult to tell the male and female apart at a quick glance.

I charged $15 each for these fish; which I felt was a more than fair price for tank-raised juveniles. Here in Utah wild-caught adults go for between $19 - $29 each, depending on the LFS you patronize.

I already have 4 more requests (for 2 babies each) from this next brood. This time I will isolate the male after he releases, to allow him more time to recuperate from his month of starvation, and also that will mean a longer time between spawns so I can keep the 2nd brood in the nursery tank longer before I let those be sold off.

At this time I have no plans on keeping any of the babies... yes, they are very cute - but I am happy with just keeping the mated pair of adults for now.

I will update this journal this weekend (January 12 - 13) when I will be returning the male to the nursery tank for "Round Two" - as soon as the last of the first brood leaves my house sometime this Saturday...

My wife says she is sad to see them go, as she has gotten attached to them since she took care of a majority of their feedings while I am working... they seem to almost "recognize" her face and swim to the front glass quickly whenever she looks into their tank...

I told her she won't have much time to miss them - as the next brood could be out and about within a few days of saying goodbye to the last from the first bunch
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125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB
  #21  
Old 01/10/2008, 11:51 PM
FMarini FMarini is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Houston, Tejas
Posts: 4,192
Carlso---awesome updates.

Just a few points, the mating dance is intiated by the female, make sense, shes got the eggs and is asking the male to NOT eat for 20-30 days. Believe me the females ar the aggressors in this fish.
The egg transfer take approx 1 sec, even if you were watching it and sneezed, you would have missed it

In regards to Pyjamas, obrics, blue eyed, flame cardinals, etc. The mouth brooding is the same, thats it
THEY are not like banggais.

Banggais have whats called direct development (elutheroembryos), they go from egg to fry. Thats why they only make <50 eggs

The other cardinals, produces thousands of 0.5mm eggs, which are mouthbrooded for anywhere between 7-10 days, then planktonic larvae are released.
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  #22  
Old 01/11/2008, 12:53 AM
carlso63 carlso63 is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lehi, Utah
Posts: 453
Dr. Marini:

Am I correct that the eggs are all in a kind of "sac" at first...?


At this very moment I am at work while my wife is fishing out 2 babies from the first brood for their new owner... she is telling me that the male has his mouth open rather wide and it looks like a "sac" inside that is moving around a bit.

Today (1/10) is Day 24 since the 2nd spawn (12/17)... is she witnessing perhaps the "sac" rupturing, or am I off-base on this?

If the eggs are indeed hatching to larvae (or premature fry) at this point in time, then I would guess that (similar to the 1st brood) the male will continue to hold them another 5 - 6 days before the final release, at full-term?

Which means another 29 to 30 day total time from spawn to release... does that seem on the "long" side to you?

BTW, I know sometimes temperature can influence egg / fry development times... in my case my water temp hits a low of about 75.5 - 76F overnight and a high of about 78.5F midday (with the halides on)... is that temp range OK or is my temp too low, and would that lead to longer gestation times?

- Bob
__________________
125 gal Mixed Reef; 30g Sump / 10g Fuge
1134w Odyssea 15K MH / PC lighting
(3) Koralia 3s, (2) Fluval 404s, (1) MJ900
modded CSS220 Skimmer
165 lb LR / 3/4" full Plenum / 5" DSB
  #23  
Old 01/11/2008, 02:24 AM
sayn3ver sayn3ver is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ (right outside of philly)
Posts: 186
Will you only sell local? I'd like to buy a pair (male + female) captive bred BC's in a few weeks.

If not could you recommend another breeder on the East coast (NJ)
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