All you EVER wanted to know about Southdown

[TAC]

Look his E-mail up and ask him. I know he had a long post way back that told how to do it. I don't know if it is archived or not

[Grumpy Vet]

.........and the mystery continues.....

[Mako]

MGK65 -

What do you base this on

DO NOT GET Yardright Select Multipurpose Play Sand. That is not the correct sand

While you are at it:

All of the sand is manufactured by SouthDown Inc. and only available in Home Depot stores from Eastern VA/ Baltimore MD, Philadelphia, PA through New York on the eastern seaboard.

Just how does one go about manufacturing sand?? Isn't that something left to good ol' mother nature?

I believe you will find that Southdown puts their product in more than one kind of sack. Grumpy, get on the phone and put this one to bed for us will ya?

[mgk65]

Mako

You will notice that I said do not get Yardright Multipurpose Play Sand. The Multipurpose is not CaCO3 (calcium carbonate) sand, it is a silca sand like Quickrete.

There are actually three bag types.

1) The Blue with red lettering:
- [b]Southdown Tropical Play Sand From the Carribean

2) Dark Blue with white or clear lettering:
- [b]Yardright Select Tropical Play Sand from the Carribean

3) Light Blue with white or clear lettering:
- [b]Yardright Select Tropical Play Sand from the Carribean

I do have pictures of all three of these, but don't have time to post them all again. Anyway, numbers 1 and 2 are shown above in this thread, and #3 looks just like #2, but light blue instead of dark blue.

Just how does one go about manufacturing sand?? Isn't that something left to good ol' mother nature?

Harmph.

mgk



mgk

[Grumpy Vet]

Looks like we have two tangs in the same tank....No way am I getting in the middle of this -

I do have additional information available. I followed the ever so loquacious TAC and did some digging....and I think we have some good information. Nice memory TAC.

What is listed below comes from goby on the ReefCentral boards over a year ago. When you see first person - it is him speaking - not Grumpy. I just cut and pasted a bunch of threads together so it made sense even out of context. Then I just looked up a few addresses....and you now have the information of the company that sells the sand to Southdown who sells it to HomeDepot who sells it to Northeastern Reefers.

_____________________________

This sand is shipped to southdown from Marcona Ocean Industries which is out of Ft. Pierce Florida. They sell to both Southdown, AND Carib-Sea. (they also sell to Martin Marrieta in jacksonville, among others). Marcona Ocean Industries, the company that mines the stuff, does so in the carribean, and has a special agreement with carib-sea. They have a sort of "noncompete" agreement that says that they will not sell sand to anyone doing reefs. Kinda like panasonic selling its 36" pc bulbs only to custom sealife. Same type deal. anyways, marcona sells to Southdown, Inc. and I am sure that they have told Southdown what the scoop is. (and Southdown probably told HD).

How do I know this? I spent ALOT of time researching it last year, and actually talked to the plant manager at Marcona. Nice guy, I talked to him for a while, and he eventually asked what it was for.,.. I said...."uh.... not for fishtanks???" and he said "right answer" and then proceded to tell me all this stuff. The one thing that he did warn about was to NEVER EVER mention that you would be using it for aquarium use. Glad I had been thru this already with panasonic trying to get cheap PCs.
Thread


I contacted Marcona, and the deal is that they usually only sell in bulk. What is bulk you may ask? 100tons. I have worked out a deal with the plant supervisor at marcona to get a truckload (pickup truck - about 1 ton) of oolithic sand (washed dried and sifted) for about $20.00 I have also worked it out to get a truckload from jacksonville of the non strained variety (full of shells and stuff).

All of this comes from a cay in the bahamas where Marcona has a 24/7 mining operation and fills a boat that has a 3000ton/hr conveyer! (big boat) anyways, they WILL NOT SELL IT TO YOU if you even mention the words: fish, aquarium, tank, reef, saltwater, etc. They WILL sell it to you if you tell them its for your shrubs in your front yard and that you have used it before lots of times and that you are sure that this what you want. The key here is that you have to make a trip to either Ft. Pierce or Jacksonville, FL Monday - Friday 7am-4pm. Thats it, no alternatives. I am thinking about doing it soon, but have to take time off work... i will try and post here if i do get it, just to fill everyone in.

Give them a call - tell them you want it for your bushes. They will sell it to you.. but you have to shovel it yourself.. (the smallest front end loader they have carries 5 yards )

________________

Thanks to goby for all that work a year ago! Here is how to get in touch w/ Marcona

Marcona Ocean Industries
20 Avenue M
Fort Pierce, FL 34952
561-464-1836

4018 Retford Dr
Jacksonville, FL 32225
904-646-3595

There you go Southern Reefers - have at it. Appreciation for my dilligence, hardwork & effort can be sent in the form of frags.

GV

[Mako]

Grumpy -

Good info. Best yet so far!! No Tangs here BTW.

MGK65 -

My bad on the missing the multpurpose in your text. Don't know about that one, just know the pic I posted is the same stuff. Could'nt help but pick on your use of the word manufactured.

Peace

[Jaten]

A heartfelt thanks for sharing all the homework on the HD and SD. ...... now to get my hands on some of that sand.....hmmmm, thinking.....thinking.....thinking........

[john f]

That's great info.
Now what we florida reefers need to do is get all get together for a big group buy. If we all call Marcona they will surely get wise to what's going on.

I now live in Gainesville, Fl so I am just 1.5 hours from Jax.
I could pick up a truckload of which I will need 1000 #, and sell the other 1000# to other florida reefers at no markup, just the cost of the sand (Any frags are always welcome though

If anyone likes this idea post here or email me and I will start a list.



John

[Aquaman]

Goby seems to have taken a break from posting. BUT as both of us are in the same reef club and we have talked about doing this many times but just havent had the time to take off from work and pick up a truck load of the stuff. Maybe soon!

[Shan]

Anyone in the Portland, Or area want to go in with me and try to get some?????

[newbyreef]

Ok,

It is not totally correct that you can't get it shipped to your local home depot.......We do not have it here in Minnesota/Wisconsin area either....and so I went in and talked to the Manager of home depot on LaCrosse Wi. He assured me they could get it if I wanted some, and as mush or as little as I liked.

So...I said ok, and what do you know, he called me two days later, and said we have southdown, and we are trucking some in. And I am paying $3.84 for a 50lb bag.

WHile the bags did not look like the first picture on this thread you posted...there were two different bags...one was like the second picture in the thread that was blue and red, and plastic...it ALSO comes in a paper bag that is blue and red and white...and it is the same exact stuff. ANd all I did was give him the SKU 578819

So it is available, comes in a few different types of bags..but it is all the same stuff.

HTH
C.

[Grumpy Vet]

Hey Newby.....

Thanks for the input - while we have no fatalists here on this board that are resigned to never getting the Southdown - we do have people that are having difficulties. Those are the folks I am trying to help in any way possible by giving as many facts, figures and ideas as possible.

I have (and continue to advise) begging, pleading, trading frags, giving your first born to, signing up for indentured servitude with, wife swapping and scraping algae for the guy at your local Home Depot to get you this sand.

They can do it. I've said this many times. The question is:

Are you persuasive enough to get them to do it? Are you talking to the right person?

If you live in FL - the point is moot - drive your pick-em-up truck to the manufacturer and get a bed full for $20.

Toodles -

GV

[Tcook]

Originally posted by Grumpy Vet


I don't really know for sure if the stuff pictured in the thread above is Southdown or not.

As Mako said it is the same. This is the bag scheme that I got through Macimage. It says Southdown on the back of the bag. That bag also looks like it had one of Joyce's yellow tang stickers on it that was removed

[purpletanglvr]

southdown can be purchased online at www.reefland.com

it is $11.00 for a 40# bag. check it out. They also offer live sand at a reasonable rate.

[

[veng68]

So anyone want to start a company to disribute the sand to the rest of Canada & the US That's 5000 40 pound bags in a small bulk order (100 tons)

Cheers,
Veng68

[Shan]

So, by definition, just getting non-silica sand is the trick?

I do believe that all 'playsand' has to be FDA approved to be sillica free since it can cause long term lung problems and cancer...

Any comments?

Mike & Shanda

[mikemac37]

^^^^

[Aquamans Reef]

Wow thanks for the detailed explanation grumpy. Joe

[Grumpy Vet]

My past is coming back to haunt me.....you are ever so welcome....

Thanks for dredging up the information.......when I do it - it looks spammy & self serving.....

I'm thrilled it helped you........any questions.....ask away...I spent alot of time researching this stuff.....

GV

[Hutchinson]

Southdown cheap...

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI...ndexURL=0&rd=1

[carrieb420]

I hope i don't sound retarded asking this but I'm new at this and not really sure about some stuff. So if I do find south down sand and put it in my tank, does that mean that I'll have to find creatures to buy to put in the sand or is that going to be in the southdown sand?

[newbyreef]

Carrie,

Hi, and dont hesitate to ask any question, there's no such thing as a dumb question, especially if you are just starting out.

First, Southdown sand is a calcium based sand, not silica based. It is great for reef tanks as it provides natural buffering, is the right size grain for lots of bacteria to grow on, and looks great also. And the big plus..if you find it locally, it is running $3.84 a 50 pound bag. That is much cheaper than you'll find live sand or dry sand anywhere else on the market.

Now to more directly answer your question..no, Southdown sand comes dry and for lack of a better term "Dead". You must add it to your tank, fill your tank with water, add your live rock, then maybe another 5 or 10 pound of live sand to your dead sand to help it become "live" or you can wait longer and not seed it with live sand, and just let your live rock that you put in slowly seed the sand too.

Or another option is to buy what some companies call "live sand activator" it is full of the bacteria and little amphipods and copepods that live and work in the sand..this is also a good way to seed your dead sand and help it become live sand.

I hope this info helps you out a little...and feel free to keep asking questions.

C.

[Tom D]

I was in southern New Hampshire today on business and checked a few of the Home Depots and here is what I found. The home depot in Nashua ( the one near the Pheasant Lane Mall) does not have the Southdown, it just has the quickrete). However I did find it at the Salem Home depot for $3.99/50lb bag. They had two pallets of the stuff so if you go soon you will most likely find it.

Good Luck,

Tom

[Mako]

Many thanks to JohnF for taking the time to go and visit Marcona in Jacksonville here recently. His trip was a success and I am now the proud owner of some SD sand. Or should we really call it MOI sand. Will work nicely in the 55 refugium I am setting up.

Thanks also to you G. Vet for digging up those old threads with the info on Marcona. There is hope in the South yet for cheap aragonite based sand.

[Sparky]

Thanks and Good work on the research guys!

I got my sand from reefland.com. It looks just like the pic Mako201 posted. I paid $11.00 a bag. It cost me $15.00 shipping per bag. I know I payed more but it was a hell of a lot cheaper than the LFS ripoff. I only needed three bags so I went for it. I have to say Steve at reefland.com is excellent to work with. The best customer service. You may find as good but you wont find better.

I tried talking to a guy at my local (Springfield, MO) Home Depot. They didnt have it but he was helpful enough to call the other Home Depots in Columbia, MO and Joplin, MO. No joy anywhere in Missouri. I wish I had read this thread back then.

I think its all in who you talk to. Some managers are helpful and some are morons. Im only 33 but some of the people at these big box stores are really ignorant. Some of them dont know a nail from a screw. I know its really stereotyping but I always look for someone older. They usually might know what your talking about or have the work ethic to try to find out.

It never hurt either to go straight to the top to find out something. If I was trying today I'd go in on a week day in the middle of the day and find the Head Manager. Find out who he is and ask him for help. If you cant get him to help I would try the guy behind the contractor sales desk. Those guys usually have a little on the ball and are usually helpful. Just dont go up to them when they have a big line of people, they just wont take the time, they dont have it. Go when they arent busy. Thats when they will be the most helpful.