Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community Archives > General Interest Forums > New to the Hobby

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #101  
Old 01/08/2004, 11:36 AM
FLpatty FLpatty is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tampa
Posts: 167
Ahhh ok ... so it's like meeting up in the forest with the Orcs who delay you for a bit. Or when Saruman looks into his palantir and it says "answer fuzzy - ask again later." Very clever!

Just so I keep this on topic, I have been considering gathering water from the Gulf of Mexico just for replacement purposes and to keep the salinity level correct. Is there any danger to this? Are there toxins in the Gulf water?
__________________
"Ooooh! Fishy, fishy, fishy, fish! ... A fish! A fish! A fishy-oooooh!!" (Monty Python)
  #102  
Old 01/08/2004, 07:35 PM
yzthumpa yzthumpa is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Slidell, La.
Posts: 65
Just stay away from the Louisiana side of the Gulf....
  #103  
Old 01/10/2004, 12:49 PM
Radicaljbr Radicaljbr is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hudson, Ohio
Posts: 1,143
your quote (sorry, have no idea how you guys include quotes)

"With the PC lights you should be able to squeeze in more bulbs into the hood, as they don't take up that much room. You do need to do some wiring but it is not that hard. Also, you might consider going to a 96 watt lamp if you can handle the 33.5" length."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Waterkeeper, I am going back to a reply (above)you sent me on 12-17. I am still trying to figure out what to do with my lighting. You mention two things. One was to add bulbs to my hood. By doing so would I have to change the ballast? als I really see no room unless I move the reflector out. The other thing you mention is to change to 96 watts if I can handle the length. Length of what? I am using 48" PC with 2x 10,000K and 2 x actinis...all are 65 watts for a 105 gallon tank.

Another thing I could do is change my NO to a VHO. I have a NO light that came with tank and it is still in the box in the basement.

What do you think?

thanks

John
  #104  
Old 01/11/2004, 09:15 PM
WaterKeeper WaterKeeper is offline
Bogus Information Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 8,848
Quote:
Originally posted by Radicaljbr
your quote (sorry, have no idea how you guys include quotes)

Waterkeeper, I am going back to a reply (above)you sent me on 12-17. I am still trying to figure out what to do with my lighting. You mention two things. One was to add bulbs to my hood. By doing so would I have to change the ballast? als I really see no room unless I move the reflector out. The other thing you mention is to change to 96 watts if I can handle the length. Length of what? I am using 48" PC with 2x 10,000K and 2 x actinis...all are 65 watts for a 105 gallon tank.
John,

First things first. Use the handy-dandy at the right top corner of any post. I'll teach you the secret of writing in blue when you get several years experience in the hobby.

I'm not sure what type of ballasts you have. If at all possible you want to mount ballasts in the stand or some other remote location. This does three things-
[list=1][*]Provides additional space in your hood.[*]Gets the heat from the ballast away from the tank.[*]Provides a less corrosive environment for this costly piece of equipment.[/list=1]
Note Numbered lists are only for the most advanced reefkeeper

Not all ballasts can be safely mounted more than a foot or two from the actual lights. You want to make sure (check with the manufacturer) that it is OK to remote mount the ballast. In most cases electronic's can be mounted remotely but magnetic may overheat if distanced from the lights.

In your case John I'd check on how much wattage your ballast can handle. If it has the capacity, then upping your lights from 65 watt to 96 is no problem.

For the electrically challenged among us; you'll usually find that the local industrial electrical retail store can be a real help. Most times they are happy to answer one's questions and, in some cases, will do minor wiring ( I think to prevent you from char broiling yourself).

Your question about length is why I tend not to give a lot of data on more exotic bulbs like T-5 and PC. It seems every time one turns around there is a new configuration on the market. You say your 65 watt PC's are 48" while the ones I'm use to seeing are only 21". Even the 96 watt lights I've seen are only 33". That doesn't mean your length is wrong. Only it is a size I've not come across.

What you talk about, that is, removing the reflector from your hood; is not a good idea. The amount of illumination you lose without a reflector makes for a large loss in the overall light your tank receives.

You may wish to put up a post on the RC lighing forum. There are plenty of people with more knowledge than I on the variety of lights available. They tend to lurk on that forum.
__________________
"Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation"

Tom
  #105  
Old 01/11/2004, 10:11 PM
Radicaljbr Radicaljbr is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hudson, Ohio
Posts: 1,143
Tom,

Thanks for the lesson on quoting. I could have been here for years and never would have noticed that.....too funny.

Also, I miss spoke about my light. My light fixture is 48" and the actual lights are 21".

If I start to use blue now, will I be thrown out of Reef Central? I dare not try the numbered lists, I might hurt myself.

As always, thanks for your vast knowledge of my try at this hobby.



John
  #106  
Old 01/12/2004, 10:36 AM
WaterKeeper WaterKeeper is offline
Bogus Information Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 8,848
John,

Don't feel bad. I have no idea of how the PHP button on the menu works and I'm scared to find out.

I was somewhat tired last night. It isn't easy armchair quarterbacking all those games especially when they go into overtime.

I didn't answer you about putting VHO tubes in an NO fixture. Judging by a few responses I don't think I explained how a fluorescent works too well. The tube has an inert gas, argon, which is doped with mercury vapor. If you look at a fluorescent spectrum you always see a strong emission line around 330 nanometers. This line is cased by the mercury in the tube. The light from the mercury only is a small percentage of the actual output of the tube. Initially the ballast supplies a high voltage that ionizes the mercury in the tube. Once the bulb starts, addition liquid mercury is vaporized and the tube reaches full temperature. Electrons are emitted by the ionized vapor that then strike the phosphors and make them glow. The second duty of the ballast is to limit the amount of current that enters the tube. If current was allowed to enter the tube without restriction the resistance would fall to such a low level that an arc would form between the filaments and short the tube out in no time flat. The ballast prevents this form happening.

Now your NO bulb uses a ballast which allows around a half amp to pass. An HO allows a full amp and a VHO 1.5. If you use a magnetic ballast, which is usually the case in low cost fixtures, two problems arise. An NO rated ballast will not be able to run a VHO lamp. It will either fail to light or light only faintly. On the other hand a VHO rated ballast used on a NO tube will overdrive the lamp. It will run much brighter at the expense of tube longevity.

Electronic ballasts are a bit more versatile. They can be wired in such a fashion as to be able to run just about any type tube. If you are the type that likes to change things around all the time then they are a worthwhile investment.

Another thing worth noting is with T-5 vs T-12 run on a magnetic ballast is a T-5 ballast also runs at half an amp; the same as an NO T-12. A two foot NO T-12 runs at 20 watts and a two foot T-5 at 18. Since they both use about the same current but the T-5 packs the current into a smaller tube volume, the T-5 is rated as an HO and appears much brighter.

The thing here is that you cannot run a T-5 on an NO magnetic ballast. Why? Well the T-5 tube uses a different starting system than the T-12's. You need a ballast for T-5's to run them. This is a reason to always check with the manufacturer when selecting a ballast to work with a specific tube.

Another interesting point you made is about hood space. If one plans to go with MH lighting you need a tall hood. If you plan to start with fluorescent then upgrade to MH at a latter date you can always use spacers to lower the tube to near the water surface. When you then switch to MH you can remove part of the fluorescents and have the clearance for ventilation that a MH needs.

No matter what type of lighting you choose it is best to have a game plan. I have some comparison photos linked in this thread. They are OK but remember--a computer monitor varies from make to make. You really want to see the type of lighting you want in the real world of a reef tank. Look around at the LFS or at other reefers tanks.

Here's an idea. Find an established reefer who's bulbs are near replacement time. Con him into getting the bulbs in which you are interested. That way if your lighting scheme makes his tank look like a screen shot form a game of Doom you'll not be out the money.

You really need to watch your budget when selecting lights. It is great to get a megawatt MH/VHO combination but it can be a real shock to find the service to your house cannot support it. Using candles for lighting is romantic and you can always read the books you never had time to read when you had TV using the light from your tank. However, I think your spouse may draw the line when they must place buckets of water on top of your lighting hood to have hot water for a bath.
__________________
"Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation"

Tom
  #107  
Old 01/12/2004, 01:39 PM
Radicaljbr Radicaljbr is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hudson, Ohio
Posts: 1,143
Thanks for the clarification.

my wife and kids could always take baths IN the tank. I think my two boys would love to play with the fish.
  #108  
Old 01/13/2004, 11:55 AM
WaterKeeper WaterKeeper is offline
Bogus Information Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 8,848
Quote:
Originally posted by Radicaljbr
my wife and kids could always take baths IN the tank. I think my two boys would love to play with the fish.
Wasn't this a pic of one of the fish in your tank?
__________________
"Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation"

Tom
  #109  
Old 01/13/2004, 12:05 PM
WaterKeeper WaterKeeper is offline
Bogus Information Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 8,848
Sorry FLpatty,

I missed your question on the Gulf Water.

I asked the Jedi Master and he said, "Quest cheap water you do. Collected offshore, good it should be."

Just be mindful young Padawan. Running it through some activated carbon might take care of any lingering organic impurities. A wee bit of insurance and another handy use for a canister filter.
__________________
"Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation"

Tom
  #110  
Old 01/14/2004, 04:24 PM
Radicaljbr Radicaljbr is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Hudson, Ohio
Posts: 1,143
Sorry Tom,

Your pic I could not open

John
  #111  
Old 01/15/2004, 12:04 PM
WaterKeeper WaterKeeper is offline
Bogus Information Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 8,848
Quote:
Originally posted by Radicaljbr
Your pic I could not open
It wouldn't open for me either. Was only a joke anyway after you said that your wife and kid could take a bath in your tank.

__________________
"Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation"

Tom
  #112  
Old 01/15/2004, 12:52 PM
WaterKeeper WaterKeeper is offline
Bogus Information Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 8,848
I received a PM on what is coral bleaching and it is a good question. Simply put it is when a coral expels the symbiotic algae, Zooxanthellae, that provide nutrition and, at the same time, provide color to the coral. Basically, the nice colorful coral you purchased gradually become white. The downside of this is that, not only is your coral unsightly, it will starve to death over time.

There are people who claim that when they switch to brighter lighting, such as MH, their coral undergo bleaching. This may be true for some lower light corals from deeper depths. I find it somewhat hard to believe for shallow water light loving corals. No amount of lighting supplied by the aquarist is going to outdo the light provided by the sun. Even people using very high light outputs pale in comparison to the illumination the sun provides.

It is possible that if one places unshielded HQI lights on the tank that the UV emitted could cause this bleaching. A simple pane of glass between the HQI and water solves this problem as the glass blocks the short-wave UV. There may also be an adaptive response. Coral that has become accustomed to lower light levels is shocked by a sudden increase in light and ejects the Zooxanthellae. This doesn’t mean you should avoid adding MH to an established tank. It just means you should acclimate the tank to the new lighting.

Some people say that you should limit the photoperiod. That may help but I think a better solution is to gradually increase the light over time. You can prop up the hood higher above the tank at first then gradually lower it. Egg crate or nylon screening (careful it is not so close to a MH light that it melts) can be placed between the hood and tank and then slowly removed. MH light can not be dimmed but if you have a dimmer on VHO, use it. If some corals seem to be losing color move them to a less exposed position in the tank.

A picture can be worth a thousand words. Take a picture of your tank before you add new lights and one immediately after adding them. I like to use a regular film camera rather than a digital. Film still has better color rendition than the best digital imagery. Use only the tank lighting and no flash. If you think your coral is bleaching under the new light you can compare it to the before and orginal new light photo. Is it the same as the picture looked when the light was added? If it appears pale then bleaching may be occurring. Reduce the light level for a while and see if it improves. Do remember that if you change bulbs to different K values the tank may appear different than it was before. Take this into consideration when switching bulbs.

Darn Newbies, I told you to only use a colorfast bleach!
__________________
"Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation"

Tom
  #113  
Old 01/27/2004, 11:28 AM
JohnM99 JohnM99 is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 468
What next?

OK Boss. So now we have our tank and sand and live rock and bacteria and skimmer and nice lights and a sump and a refugium with rocks and sand and let it sit for a good long while -

The kids are complaining "where are the fish? Where are the exotic corals?" and the dog has stopped staring at the tank because he is bored.

What do I add next? The plastic deep sea diver bubbling thing? A baby whale shark? An endangered species of gorgonian? A lot of fire coral to keep the kids and dog out of the tank?

Or, more seriously, would you put some living green things in the fuge next? or wait until there is something in the tank producing food for green things? Or just keep it the way it is because it is nice and low maintainance now?
  #114  
Old 01/27/2004, 12:45 PM
JohnM99 JohnM99 is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 468
Oh- forgot to mention - nice Quarantine tank is also set up. Assuming 4 week Q for most things.
  #115  
Old 01/27/2004, 04:02 PM
amcrambler amcrambler is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wappingers Falls, NY
Posts: 6
Hi, this is my first post on the board so of course I've got some newb questions for you guys. I'm still in the planning stages for my future tank, I haven't even bought anything yet and it might be a couple months or so before I start it. I always like to be well informed before I start on something like this, and from what I've read so far that is a good thing.
I've got a friend who's kind of gotten me hooked on salt water tank keeping, after I saw his set up and how cool it is, I decided I'd like to give it a try. His tank is pretty big so probably on a smaller scale. He also posts here and told me about it, but I don't know his screen name. Anyhow here's what I'm considering, I'm thinking a 40-50 gallon tank, with a deep sand bed and live rock. I'd like to start off with fish and then add some hard corals one I get everything going. I think I'm going to go for metal halide lights, so that light isn't an issue when I go to put corals in. As for my questions, here goes:

1. For the afore mention tank and setup, how many MH lights will I need at how many watts a piece to provide adequate lighting for corals?

2. Will 10,000k be a good temperature light for various kinds of corals and fish? I've seen pictures in JB NY's thread of the different temps and that one seems to look the best to me, so once I'm ready I'll look for corals that do well in that range light. Offhand is there a fair variety that do well at that bandwidth? I'm trying not to create an environment that only a limited number of animals can survive in.

3. As far as the UV emissions of the MH lighting, you mentioned needing a filter between the lights and you so that you won't get burned by it. Will the fish require this filter also? Or does the water filter it for them? I'm thinking as long as the lights are fully enclosed in the hood, it should be safe not having that buffer underneath them, as long as I don't leave them on when I'm taking the hood off or anything. I'm thinking it would take some extended exposure to cause the burns you were talking about, but I wanted to be sure the fish would be insulated from this if there is no buffer. Or is the buffer a definite requirement?

Thats about it for now. I'll probably have tons more later on. Thanks!
  #116  
Old 01/28/2004, 11:14 AM
WaterKeeper WaterKeeper is offline
Bogus Information Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 8,848
Hi amcrambler

To Reef Central

John,

I’m going to address amcramblers questions in detail and wrap up the stuff on lights in doing so. However, with the nice setup you have, I’d say you are ready for some fish or inverts. There is no special order of adding fish over coral. You can start with either. Having a quarantine tank is just great. The good portion of reefers do not quarantine coral. Eric Borneman, our coral expert droid, thinks it is a good idea and recommends a 3-4 week quarantine, about the same as for fish. The one aspect of a Q-tank for coral is, unlike for fish, it needs good lighting. The lighting should be able to reach the same intensity as that used in the main tank. Here is a situation where a dimmer and fluorescent lighting can come in handy. When you first add a new coral to the tank you can start out with fairly dim lighting and increase it daily until you reach the level of your main tank. Do it gradually, say 10% per day, and you’ll avoid shocking the coral, which often has been under low light levels at the LFS or mail-order dealer.

With that 65 gallon sump it may be worthwhile to add some macro-algae if it is easy to access. I’d get a few critters in the tank before planting it so there is some nutrient exported to the sump.

You’re reading my mind to some extent as I was going to bring up stocking after I finish this never-ending portion on lighting. Your experienced and sound like your well on your way to amusing your dog.

Back to you amcrambler,

I’d say that two 150 watt MH should be alright but I’d supplement them with another 200 or so watts of VHO if you plan on any light thirsty corals. 10,000K is a good choice if you like a crisp white look. If you use half actinic and some 6500K VHO you will have a good color balance. If your lights are the mogul base type the UV shield is part of the bulb. It is the DE and HQI where there may be some harmful, unshielded UV present. UV can penetrate water and unless there is glass or UV absorbing plastic can effect the critters in your tank. Your best bet is to talk to the bulb manufacturer about the need for shielding.

Let’s put this light thing to rest before I get burned out on it!

Here is a summary of selecting lighting.

To save on lighting costs choose a tank with low overall height. A tank that is 5’ long by 3’ wide by 2’ tall (225 gallons) has a 15 square foot bottom area. A tank that is 4’ long by 2’ wide by 4’ tall (240 gallons) has a 8 square foot bottom but needs twice as much lighting as the longer tank. Why? When we double the distance of the lights from the bottom we reduce the intensity of that lighting to ¼ of the total illumination.

Look around at other tanks. It is really hard to get a real idea of the lighting effect on most computer monitors.

MH will penetrate further into the tank than VHO or other fluorescent lighting. That is true only for the area directly under the bulb. At angles to the bulbs the intensity drops off in the same ratio as it does from raising the hood.

High K value bulbs produce a blue light that penetrates deeper into the water than light of other colors. Higher K values bulbs usually produce less light than their lower K value cousins, which may offset this benefit.

Corals need a broad spectrum of radiation to survive. Try to vary the K values of the lighting to provide a balance. If you like iridescence actinic VHO can be used to supplement lower K value MH.

Don’t go beyond your means. Lighting can be one of the more expensive parts of starting a reef tank. If you need to rewire your home or add a costly chiller it may break the bank. You can have a great reef tank without having high light critters.

Here is some other good RC info--

Electical Systems

Technical Properties of Light Part 1
Light Properties Part 2

Beginners Lighting
__________________
"Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation"

Tom
  #117  
Old 01/28/2004, 11:58 AM
JohnM99 JohnM99 is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 468
This IS a great thread.

I do have some T5 lights for my fuge and Q tank (why I do is a long story best explained by my wife who changed her mind about how big my tank should be - obviously if something is going to live for a month in a Q tank it should be happy there - which brings up a question - lets say I am going to put in a tang that likes a big space - how will it stand a month in a tiny 15 gal jail? I suppose it is going to be a small one, but if you buy a biggish fish, how can you Quarantine it in a small tank?

Also, if I am thinking of getting a few small fish to start with such as blue chromis or the like, as the first fish can they go straight in the main tank? That would help it cycle further I imagine - and if there was a disease outbreak, I could just drop the salinity or take out the rock and treat them. (or try to catch them).
  #118  
Old 01/28/2004, 01:27 PM
Bobby D Bobby D is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Warwick ny
Posts: 10
Tom,

Great info for this Newbe!

Tagging and learning...

Bob
  #119  
Old 01/28/2004, 06:17 PM
WaterKeeper WaterKeeper is offline
Bogus Information Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 8,848
Hi Bobby

To Reef Central
Glad you like it. I see you have already introduced yourself to the Hudson River Reefers. I'm sure they will tell you the best places to collect live rock in New York Harbor.

JohnM,

I do need to add a post on how to pull the wool over your spouse’s eyes when setting up a tank.

We do have a few suggestion however-Excuses

One of the things I try to do is not buy full sized adult fish. Unless you really know what you are doing you may be purchasing a fish that is already collecting social security, possibly for several years. I like getting juveniles as I feel they will be around for a longer time.

That said, in your case with a new tank you may consider getting a larger fish off the bat and adding it directly to the main tank. Since the tank is just starting out you don't have the worry of a disease affecting an established tank. There is a downside to this; if the fish is of an aggressive nature he will surly bully new introductions. That means you are limited in what you add from then on in. If you are willing to take the risk of having a major wipe out on your first try, you can probably add the chromis or damsels at the same time. Avoid adding any inverts if you do as the bioload on your new tank will be taxed if you add a major number of fish at one time. With the large sump you have it will probably be OK. Do some major water changes for the first week, around 5% per day, to lessen the effect.

Water changes are the key in maintaining a Q-tank too. In the close confines of a small Q-tank you want to rely more on water changes to reduce pollutants than trying to establish biological filtration. It can be done but the LR uses up valuable real estate in the small Q-tank. A good procedure with a new set-up is to do a water change in the main tank and then use the water from the main tank to change water in the Q-tank.

Of course, you can talk the wife into letting you have a 29 gallon Q-tank.
__________________
"Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation"

Tom
  #120  
Old 01/29/2004, 12:35 AM
JohnM99 JohnM99 is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 468
Thank you for the suggestions - I have to say, much of what you have written in this thread are details NOT found in most of the good books - very practical and useful. Thank you.

And thank you for the link to the Excuses - I am not alone!!!
Hilarious.

How about this one - on the way to the LFS stop at the ATM, get a wad of cash, and pay for your new whatever from the LFS say 70% in cash, the rest on Visa and when she sees the statement you will agree with her "that was a pretty good deal!".
  #121  
Old 01/29/2004, 11:29 AM
WaterKeeper WaterKeeper is offline
Bogus Information Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 8,848
Quote:
Originally posted by JohnM99
How about this one - on the way to the LFS stop at the ATM, get a wad of cash, and pay for your new whatever from the LFS say 70% in cash, the rest on Visa and when she sees the statement you will agree with her "that was a pretty good deal!".
I don't know John. If your wife is also into medical imaging she may see right through it.

I know some of you out there don't really read the links I give you. At least that is what my CIA and NSA operatives tell me when they are not reporting on all the WMD's that such and such a dictator has.

I did want to bring up a quote from one of the above articles-
Quote:
Originally from the RC article by Doug WojtczaK Lighting the Reef Tank
I have personally used all of the above Kelvin bulbs with the following results:

The 6500 Kevin bulbs have given me the greatest coral growth in SPS, LPS placed lower in the tank and even soft corals. The color of the 6500-Kelvin bulbs when supplemented with actinic VHO tubes produces a crisp white appearance. For those seeking the greatest growth rates from SPS corals, I would recommend this color bulb.

The 10000-Kelvin bulbs also achieve good growth rates, albeit slower than the 6500-Kelvin bulbs. Their appearance is white with a slight blue tint when used with actinic supplementation. Bulbs of this color have produced excellent growth with soft corals and LPS in my own tanks along with slower paced SPS growth. I would recommend this bulb for a mixed reef environment.

The 20000-Kelvin bulb is very blue and brings out all of the fluorescent pigments in many corals. While they are visually appealing, the growth rate of my SPS corals came to a complete standstill while using them. I feel that these bulbs are well suited for a tank that simulates a deeper reef environment with LPS and soft corals but from my own experience, I do not feel that they are the best choice for high light SPS and clams. One note about the 20000-Kelvin lamps: in order to get the best intensity and color from these bulbs, they require a special HQI ballast for them to be driven as intended. This ballast is similar to the standard metal halide ballast, but includes a special starter to fire the lamp.
This is a very good point. On choosing any lighting system it is important to try to get a broad spectrum of color tempertures. Pushing too high a K value, while maybe pleasing to the eye, can cause problems by omitting higher wavelength light.

Doug also says one should spurn using the old watt per gallon rule. The rule is surely not scientific but no one ever seems to offer a better solution that is simple for the beginner to understand. You should keep in mind that that 4-6 watt per gallon for a tank minimum is for tanks in the 18"-30" range. The same goes for the 8+ wpg suggested for SPS, clams and anemones. Taller tanks will require higher wattages.

OK, OK! So you know that 1/683rd of a watt over a square meter is a Lux but how many Lux in a bagel smarty pants?

Is also .0929 foot-candles, which is a pretty puny birthday cake.

Someone also asked if there where dimmable MH lights. There have been rumors afloat that they are soon to be available. I'm just not sure how they would work. Where a fluorescent emits light from the phosphors a MH produces light by heating the filler gas to incandesence. It does so by emitting an arc discharge, through the gas, across the internal filaments. If you lower the current the gas will become cooler and the K value will decrease. Lower it enough and the internal resistance will increase to the point where the bulb goes out. Don't you love it when I talk technical?

The bottom line is I'm not sure how they will manage to make dimmable MH but the wonders of science never cease to amaze me.

I also failed to mention moonlights. The really "with it" reefers are always looking for ways to improve the natural function of their tanks and empty their wallets. Moon lighting is one such innovation.

The idea here is to simulate the moon over the reef. A dim light is used over the tank and, if you want to really be realistic, is illuminated in a fashion that simulates the phases of the moon. One of the claims is that this will cause their corals to go sexual and have a once a year breeding frenzy.

Having a tank filled with millions of gametes by horny coral is not an event I relish, at least in my opinion. Two things will happen. One--you have corals all over the place in no time flat. Two--and the most likely, you'll have a major ammonia spike after the orgy. Neither to me is a desirable event. But, to each his own.

Of course, things change and your may want to hold off for the wave of the future before getting lights Future Lights

Well I think I've about worn out lighting. Judging by JohnM's posts everyone wants critters and wants them now!!! I have no idea why someone would wish to pollute perfectly good tank water with fish and inverts but I guess I'll take a look at it next.
__________________
"Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation"

Tom
  #122  
Old 01/29/2004, 06:42 PM
JohnM99 JohnM99 is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 468
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't watts per gallon quite indirect? Talking about the wattage of a light is like talking about how many gallons of gas your car burns per hour - not how many miles it makes you go. What we are actually interested in is how many lumens of useful light are delivered, not really in how many watts you had to burn up to generate them?

So a T5 light will deliver more lumens per watt than a power compact - you get both more light actually delivered, but also more for your money. (which you can then hide and spend at the LFS).

Oh, and yes please, bring on the Critters!
  #123  
Old 01/29/2004, 07:28 PM
WaterKeeper WaterKeeper is offline
Bogus Information Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 8,848
Quote:
Originally posted by JohnM99
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't watts per gallon quite indirect? What we are actually interested in is how many lumens of useful light are delivered, not really in how many watts you had to burn up to generate them?
That's for sure John. The watts per gallon is only a general rule for those that only know that PAR is what you try to break on the golf course. Since this is a newbie thread, I try not to complicate it with too much weird science

For most of the newbie readers we are not talking about massive tanks (200 gallons+). Following the general rule of x watts per gallon will get them started without needing to take a course in physics. For those that want the most bang for the buck (or those that start out with massive tanks) it is a good idea to hang out on the Lighting Forum and get the latest lowdown on what's up.

I was kidding earlier when I did the table thing. However, even comprehensive (real) lighting tables tend to become outdated very shortly after they are published. Improvements in phosphors and in fill gasses for MH change the total lumens and overall K values of many lamps used in the trade. Fortunately we have people like NY Joe, who seems to have endless research funds, who try to produce threads that are up to date. Just a year of two ago PC was all the rage. Now it is T5. A year from now it may indeed be LED. Advancement in this hobby is pretty swift.

I encourage anyone with a big tank or that wants to get the most light for the least money to explore both RC and the www for the latest data on lighting. It can save a fossil....fuel.

Now about that Sphyrna zygaena you Newbies are just dying to add to your new tank....
__________________
"Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation"

Tom

Last edited by WaterKeeper; 01/29/2004 at 07:39 PM.
  #124  
Old 01/30/2004, 11:10 AM
WaterKeeper WaterKeeper is offline
Bogus Information Expert
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 8,848
Actually I would like to have a Sphyrna zygaena . If all the 9000 + people that have read this thread would send me around $200 a piece I could fulfill my dream.


As John has been hinting, by this time your tank should have all the basics in place and be well past the cycle. At least I hope so since I started this thread back in September. It is about time that you add some livestock.

First off, please, PLEASE don't send me lists of fish and corals you want in your tank. I'm not a marine biologist and I don't know the Latin name and breeding habits of every critter in the sea. You want ot send those lists to the expert droids, Eric Borneman, Ron Shimek and Frank Marini. These droids know everything that has ever swam, crawled or slithered about in the ocean and will probably kill me for telling all you Newbies to PM them with fish wish lists.

Most new reefers acquire a "clean up crew" as soon as ammonia levels reach zero. Usually this is snails, hermit crabs and perhaps a sea cucumber. Snails are the most common addition and the safest to add. When adding snails you want about one for each gallon of tank volume. Try to mix the types you add. There are all sorts of claims on which snail is best so variety covers the bases. Hermit crabs get mixed reviews. Doc Ron feels they may be too good at their job removing beneficial critters from you sand bed. I have hermits and seem to have a good stable DSB with lots of pods. Hermits are not mandatory so make your own decision. Sea cukes are sand processors. They stir the bed and eat the sand. Well, they really don't eat sand but run it through their gut and consume the biological growth attached to it. I've never had one but it would seem this removal of the critters in the bed may be harmful. If you get one I'd keep it to just one. The critters in your bed do repopulate fairly quickly and probably can withstand a single cuke.

I don't have a lot of time today but I'll continue this new part of the thread over the next week or so.

I know--it has taken 5 months to get here but we always say on RC that patience is a virtue.
__________________
"Leading the information hungry reefer down the road to starvation"

Tom
  #125  
Old 01/30/2004, 12:01 PM
JohnM99 JohnM99 is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 468
My check is in the mail. Along with all the others.

Be sure to budget a little extra for one of these gizmos - in case you fall in while cleaning your new tank - it also seemed to help its original user from being eaten -

http://www.thejbw.com/index.php?sect...dgets&movie=tb
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef Central™ Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2009