Want to Start a Marine Aquarium?: A Step by Step Guide

[NanoCube-boy]

First-Chevalier, you can keep, Bulleyes Mushroom, kenya Tree Leather, Button Polyps. I have keep them under 24watts and it's pretty okay to keep them. My lighting is no longer 24watts now, like before it was.

[hedgelj]

Thanks Danch, now I have a search term or two to try to figure out how well they work.

[first-chevalier]

Woot, we have a tank. Here's the final product, but there are much more photos at the link for my build, here....

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1023218

The first is a little cloudy because I just finished aquascaping. The second is actualy an older photo but I included it because you get a good look at the calfo and the rock.

[IMG] http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/...scape-done.jpg[/IMG]

[Travis L. Stevens]

I had my computer crash at work, and I've had work pile up. But, I'm up and running again, so it's time to get caught up. I'll need to make my answers short and sweet to conserve time. But, a "short" reply from me is all relative

I haven't gone by Harbor Frieght to see if they have them in stock or anything. I have a store right by my house. Considering that I still have to stain the stand and hood as well as paint the back of the tank I'm not in any hurry to drill again. I'm gonna fix my flow problem with the little micro jet I have and since I have a propensity for breaking tanks I'm not going to drill until all I have left to do is drill and paint the tank. I still have to add my baffles to the refugium. But I'll do that tonight when I get the masking tape.

Sounds great. You are progressing nicely considering the trouble you have been through

In tanks where you are going to do additional water flow, more then just the overflow and return I have a question. Where do you put the additional powerheads and pumps that you'd then attach to either times or a wave timer to attempt to recreate some of the chaotic currents found in a reef during the different times of the day as well as from waves moving over the shallower sections?

Every piece of hardware that you use to piece your tank together is based on the livestock that you will keep in it. Usually that livestock is corals. So, the answer to that would be what type of corals you will have in it. If you have corals that prefer low flow, then use the powerhead to knock up dead spots. If you have corals that prefer more lighting, then use the powerhead to help supplement their flow.

I just see it as a major plumbing headache to run them from the sump to not overflow your tank nor drain your sump. I haven't found any threads here in the new to the hobby section, is there a better section with this info?

You lost me a little here. Would you care to explain a little more? I think I know what you are talking about, but I'm not confident on it.

Noob question of the week...

With the lighting that you suggest Travis (6500k compact flourecent) x4 for a total of 100w can I keep any SPS or LPS corals, or corals of any kind or am I stuck with live rock, clean up crews, and one or two fish unless I club up to the $150 20 inch Corallife light (or similar product)?

You'll most likely be able to keep most common Soft Corals and many LPS. You might get "lucky" with SPS, but it would be difficult. If you refer back to the lighting section, I cover common corals housed under Compact Fluorescent lighting.

I just posted an update for my build. I suck at silicon, lol.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showt...548#post9194548

Pictures of my poor silicon job so you guys who THINK you suck can feel better. Also shots of how I had the tanks setup for my flow test that did flow so well.

Great pictures! I'm glad things are progressing nicely for you. I just skimmed the thread and it looks like you are doing well.

I've been in a couple times and they do have really good prices, but I'm unsure about the quality and durability of the stuff they sell. I'm certain for light duty the tools are just fine, but I'm hard on stuff and light duty for me means replacing soon. Having said that I still intened on looking into the hole saw set there.

I feel that their quality isn't as great, but if you're buying something that you don't plan on using often, then they are a great place to buy stuff. If you plan on drilling just a single tank, then go for it. If you plan on going commercial with drilling tanks, then you would definitely need something far better.

Travis, do you have any reservations about using a hole saw on the thin glass of the 10g verse using the dremel method? I've been told I shouldn't use the hole saw on that thin of glass, but I REALLY like how clean that comes out.

You can use either. Thick or thin, I prefer a Dremel tool for versatility, light weight, and you don't have to keep it vertical. But, if you are looking for speed and a smooth cut, there is nothing better than a hole saw.

Looks about like mine!

I can actually say that my first silicon job ever was FAR worse. In fact, it took me three tries because I thought it was so ugly. Lots of razor blades and silicon went to waste that day

For flow over and above the sump return (which is generally needed) there are two basic options: a 'closed loop' and powerheads.

There are a few different ones, but those are definitely the most common and widely used.

First-Chevalier, you can keep, Bulleyes Mushroom, kenya Tree Leather, Button Polyps. I have keep them under 24watts and it's pretty okay to keep them. My lighting is no longer 24watts now, like before it was.

I've personally kept Mushrooms, Zoanthids, Yellow Polyps, Star Polyps, Kenya Tree, Colt Corals, Finger Leathers, Devil's Hand Leathers, Toadstools, Euphyllias (Torch, Frogspawn, & Hammer), and even Plate corals under lighting that is less than what I'm using on this 10g tank.

[Paul B]

OK I got a question. There is 886 pages of information here about drilling your tank. Good information I am not saying anything bad about it. But there is an alternative to drilling holes in a perfectly good tank. There are a lot of you guys here breaking glass. I hope none of you got cut too bad yet.
Anyway, I don't know if it was mentioned but there is this siphon thing that goes into a canister which only drains water from the tank as fast as the return pump fills it. Was this mentioned somewhere? You can drill the tank if you like that sort of thing, it does a nice job but it is not the only way. I never drilled mine. Of course I don't count because I don't have a sump but I did have overflows over the years that went under the tank with that siphon arrangement which is simple to build. Not just a regular siphon which would flood your home, don't call me to pay for your rug.
Travis, how come your computer crashed? I thought you are a computer Guru
Paul

[Travis L. Stevens]

That is true. Canister Filters suck out water as fast as it pushes it back in. There are many novel ways of using a canister filter if you do not prefer the basic, standard setup. Instead of biomedia, carbon, etc, you can always fill it with live rock rubble and have a refugium that way. Of course, you wouldn't be able to grow macroalgae, but pods don't need light to live.

Travis, how come your computer crashed? I thought you are a computer Guru

Are you kidding? I suck with hardware stuff. It helps if I didn't have such long legs, and I wouldn't have bumped the power cord and screwed up my operating system in the first place.

[cdentii1]

I personally (and do intend to open a heavy debate) feel that too many aquarists focus too much on lighting WPG (watts per gallon) instead focusing on reflectors and keeping your bulbs clean after all if and when your bulbs get dirty the light cannot penetrate and shine through the dirt and without reflectors or dirty ones the light gets trapped and or absorbed and then lost I have seen aquariums with duel 55W P/C that was clean and properly maintained with good reflectors put out more light than the same size tank with a 175W M/H and 65W P/C (and yes the bulbs were within their life expectancy) that was not maintained properly.

[Travis L. Stevens]

I couldn't agree more, cdentii1. But it doesn't go for just lights. Proper maintenance on ALL equipment is needed for peak performance. Might I kindly suggest that if you would like to debate this to please place it on a different thread rather than here. We can always link to it. I'll even jump in on it There are several threads throughout Reef Central that discuss this and even have PAR readings of said situations. I believe there are a few heavily discussed topics in the Advanced Topics forum.

[Paul B]

Travis, I re read my post 17 times, (well maybe only twice) and I did not mention canister filters. I meant ways to run a refugium or sump under your tank without having the possability of flooding your house and without drilling the tank.
Now don't kick the computer plug when you answer.
Cdentii1 you are totally correct. Public aquariums clean the reflectors and bulbs every week or so and so should we. People do not realize that even a little dust will impede light output significantly not to mention salt. I clean mine all the time, you just have to think about it before the lights come on and heat up.
Thanks for mentioning it. Travis was just getting around to that but he kicked his computer plug or whatever.

[Travis L. Stevens]

I won't kick the plug, I promise. Well, no, a canister filter isn't the only way, but it is something that is readily found and easy to hook up. In fact, my favorite way of a sump/refugium under a tank without drilling isn't actually using an overflow box. I prefer to use PVC "U"ed over the top of the tank. It's a little tricky on how to start the syphon, but once you get the hang of it, it's easy as pie. The only drawback is it can be a little loud at times, but there are ways around that, too.

[Paul B]

Travis, that is one way but I was thinking of another. Take that tank you drew (nice drawing by the way) and use it as a container hanging on the back or side of a tank. Put a barrier into the container that divides it in half but the barrier only comes 3/4 the way up from the bottom. The right side has the pipe that goes to your sump and the left side is where the regular siphon goes into from the tank. You got that? The water will siphon down only as far as the barrier is high.
Anyway it is an alternative to drilling and it has been working in my tank since Nixon was President (he was after Lincoln)
Sorry to confuse all you guys. You can of course drill the thing.

Paul

[JerseyWendy]

Travis,

I have another question for you, too. Just one for now, I promise. Today I picked up a book about saltwater fish at my local library (the ONLY book they had ). It's called "500 Ways to be a better Saltwater Fishkeeper." In it they mention the use of "reef racks" in order to stack your LR. Have you ever heard of such thing, and if so, is it possible to build one by yourself?

I googled it, and didn't come up with what I was looking for.

Thanks in advance.

---
Wendy
---

[Travis L. Stevens]

Sure. It is quite simple actually. You can build a box or a series of "boxes", and zip tie eggcrate (AKA Light Diffuser) to it where you can stack your rock on it. It has it's pros and cons. The good side is you use less rock to make an aquarium look full and you have a huge cave for animals to hide in. On the other hand, the same pros can be cons. Less rock is less biofiltration and a big cave can be a dead spot with flow. Nothing that a little prior planning can't fix though. Sorry that I don't have a picture right now, but here is something similar that I'm doing in my 75g tank.



Here is one that our Central Oklahoma Marine Aquarium Society president used in his 600g tank. It's located about half way down in the link: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...&pagenumber=21

[JerseyWendy]

Thanks a bunch for the super fast reply, Travis.

I think it would be wise for me (since I'm such a noob) to add the extra rock for biological filtration, and I certainly don't want any dead spots.

It sure looks gorgeous though.

---
Wendy
---

[Travis L. Stevens]

You can still have dead spots in a pile of rocks though, so don't be fooled You'll figure out how to eliminate dead spots once you get your tank up and running though. It really is a hands-on experience.

[hedgelj]

Ok, since my question wasn’t written clear enough I’m going to try it again.

1) In your set up you have water going over the overflow, down to sump and up via the return. That gives a basic amount of flow through your tank. However, from my reading on other threads you want to avoid dead areas of flow in your tank because detritus will accumulate and could lead to a buildup of waste in that area. I know that some people will put additional powerheads or pumps in their set up to get additional flow through the tank to eliminate dead spots. Where do most people put those? I prefer as clean of a look in the tank as possible. Are there any good threads you know of that debate and show the different types of set ups to get lots of different types of flow? Including set ups that include wavemakes to get randomized flow patterns? I know that some corals want more or less flow then others, but just getting an idea of how I want to start building this tank once I find one that I like the size and shape of, I have looked around and I like all different types of corals, so I'll have to try to do sections of my tank with different flows for the different corals.


2) What are the advantages and disadvantages to using an overflow versus a siphon like Paul B described versus a overflow into a drilled hole like you show how to do? I just want to know why its best to drill the tank compared to just setting up an acrylic overflow like melevsreef.com shows? That and if I drop some $ on a tank and then it busts that just stinks among other things.

[Travis L. Stevens]

1) Okay. I get it now. Thanks for clarifying. Basically, if you are looking for a clean look without the bulky powerheads, then you can always up the size and flow of the return pump and have multiple outlets pointing in different directions in order to prevent dead spots. Some other things you might want to look into besides the basic powerhead or closed loop approach is things like spray bars and return manifolds. The latter can get pretty detailed but offers a wide range of flexibility for flow.

2) The best part about a drilled tank is that gravity forces the water in the drain and to fall down the drain line, thus you won't have to start a syphon. Also, the overflow isn't as bulky and looks cleaner than an syphon-based overflow box. You can also drill small holes or slits in the aquarium and add the overflow box on the outside. A syphon will need to be started every time it stops. On the other hand, there are different ways of starting a syphon, or ways to start a syphon automatically without you being physically there. For the most part, the syphon overflow takes a little more work and tweaking to get it to where it won't flood your house then compared to a drilled tank. But, once everything is set in and put together, neither will hardly ever flood your home.

[first-chevalier]

Hey Travis, Durso question (at least I think that's what it's called).

My one inch bulkhead gurgles a lot and I have A LOT of bubbles entering the sump/fuge at the drain pipe. Can I drill a mass of little holes in the barbed 90 degree to reduce the gurgle? Will that work or create a mess? Thanks man.

[mascencerro]

Originally posted by Travis L. Stevens
That is true. Canister Filters suck out water as fast as it pushes it back in. There are many novel ways of using a canister filter if you do not prefer the basic, standard setup. Instead of biomedia, carbon, etc, you can always fill it with live rock rubble and have a refugium that way. Of course, you wouldn't be able to grow macroalgae, but pods don't need light to live.

I know its probably taboo to link to another forum, but here is a link of someone who used an eheim canister filter as a fuge for macros. The tank they built of course is drilled, but uses a canister filter none-the-less.

[Travis L. Stevens]

first-chevalier: Nope, you don't have a durso. You simply have a drain What I did to fix this problem is I drilled a hole in the vinyl tubing just above the water line in the sump. Since the flow is low and the sound is caused from air rushing to the top, and not bubbles being pushed out the bottom from high flow, it will allow the air to escape from the sump area towards the base of the problem. It should fix it nearly instantly. Just a tiny hole. I think I used a 1/8" drill bit in my dremel tool to make the hole.

mascencerro: No offense to the mods, but if it is taboo then that would be sad. If I'm not mistaken, you're allowed to link to other site to direct, related information all day long. If you are directing to another site as a suggestion for visitation (especially if it doesn't relate to the thread topic or point of discussion), then it would be dealt with accordingly. But, that's the mod/political side. I can say for myself that I thank you for linking to that. This hobby is all about information and finding ways to share it. FWIW, I was going to say that that tank looks a lot like ninjafish's, but then I saw he was the second person to reply

[first-chevalier]

Isn't a durso drain when you have or add a vertical piece to the 90 degree barb piece your thread suggests? Won't that also fix the glugging?

I like your solution better, just trying to increase my information base. Thanks.

[Travis L. Stevens]

Pictures are worth a 1000 words....

Durso Standpipe: You can also place the 90º on the inside of the tank and the "T" on the outside.


Stockman Standpipe

[first-chevalier]

Yes, that first one is what I'm thinking of doing only I like the calfo setup better as it conserves precious tank space and limits the amount of potential dead water in the bottom of the overflow, imho.

I was thinking of drilling a bunch of 3/32 holes in the angle of the drain and then siliconing a two inch section of the 1 inch vinyl pipe around those holes to limit any dripping or overflowing through the holes.

I can always do that later. I'm going to try drilling the pipe at the water line tonight.

Should that hole be just above or below the water line? I seem to be loosing about three pints of water to evaporation a day right now, but I'm toying with the idea of replacing my lights with 50/50's. I have one and like it a lot.

[first-chevalier]

That second picture seems to have a smaller diameter tube through the larger. If I threaded a 1/8 vinyl pipe down to the fuge through the 1 inch pipe would that work too?

Oh, that brown polyp thing I had seems to have dissapeared/been eaten/fallen off. In any case I can no longer find it. AND I think I had a pod sitting in the fuge near the clump of cheeto I got from the LFS. Is that possible this early?

[Travis L. Stevens]

The hole should be drilled just above the water line. This will allow air to escape freely and not have to gurgle back up and out the display tank. If you had high flow, it would be the opposite. You would need a hole at the top of the drain (via Stockman or Durso) to keep bubble from going to the sump. As you know, tiny bubbles can't be avoided. I'm talking about the HUGE ones

The evaporation rate seems about right, and not too bad. FWIW, my 29g with 10g sump/refugium evaporates about 2-2.5 gallons per day. And that is with a high humidity (50-60%) in the room and the room running pretty cool (73-75ºF). Of course, I'm the exception and not the ordinary.

Sorry to hear about the loss of your coral. It might be too early to have it in there anyways? Have you even finished your cycle yet? The pod on the other hand is a great sign. It's never too early to have pods...or too late. The population of 'pods waxes and wans depending on the amount of available food source and the toxicity of the water. Basically, what that means to a new tank is there will be a lot of pods at first, but as the cycle starts and progresses, the population will die down until only the strongest survive. After the cycle is done, there will be plenty of available food, so the pod population will eventually boom beyond belief. Then, as the massive amounts of pods eat themselves out of house and home, the population will die down to a level that matches the amount of food source that becomes available. This might take several months for this to happen. Thus, the suggestion of not putting a mandarin or dragonet in your tank until it is 6 months old. This gives the population of pods time to stabilize before you add a predator.