Tiny Maxima

[Joshua1023]

I saw these tiny 1" blue maximas for sale and just wanted to check to make sure there was nothing special I needed to know about these tiny ones.

[nudilove]

They have an incredibly high unexplained death rate.... I wouldnt get one!

[phishcrazee]

You'll have to feed them phytoplankton about every other day until they are big enough to live off of the zooanthelae (mainly). They also need very stable water parameters.

[mbbuna]

Originally posted by phishcrazee
You'll have to feed them phytoplankton about every other day until they are big enough to live off of the zooanthelae (mainly). They also need very stable water parameters.

not to start any debates or anything and not to say that clam wont benefit from some filter feeding,but clams need intense lighting and can sustain themselves on light alone even when they are very small. heres a study that was done with larval clams and they never received any particulate to filter.

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=000...2-N&size=LARGE

[phishcrazee]

Well, of course they will also need intense lighting........ but from everything I've read, the smaller clams seem to benefit the most from additional feedings, as well as living off of light.

[Joshua1023]

Would freeze dried cyclopeeze suffice?

[a4twenty]

cyclopeeze is to large to be utilized by clams, you should use phytoplankton.

[Gem Tang Rider]

Clean your glass during the tank lighting period, that's your phyto pheast.
I have raised 3 tiny clams this way.

[Joshua1023]

sounds cool. I bought it today. 30 bucks is worth the effert. I've noticed that when I look at the clam from the top down it is very blue. If I look at it through the glass it is dull brown. Anyone else have this experience? Is there anything I can do to keep the brilliant blue from being lost in translation?

[Gem Tang Rider]

Originally posted by Joshua1023
I've noticed that when I look at the clam from the top down it is very blue. If I look at it through the glass it is dull brown. Anyone else have this experience? Is there anything I can do to keep the brilliant blue from being lost in translation?

Nope.
You could get an acrylic or starfire glass tank, that would help.

[[17]shawn[17]]

i got a 1.5"maxima about 2 weeks ago if i look through the glass it looks purple if i look down on it its blue as hell

you may not NEED to feed it but for a couple bucks a month why not help to protect your investment

[mbbuna]

Originally posted by [17]shawn[17]


you may not NEED to feed it but for a couple bucks a month why not help to protect your investment

thats not really the point. for a few years now its been beaten into peoples heads that small clams will die if they are not feed "phytoplankton" and that is simply not true.
to keep clams healthy and growing they need very intense light and a source of N&P. if you have intense lighting and a healthy, well feed fish population there will be plenty of N&P for the zoox in the clam.

[acrodave]

i have one just about a inch. and i dont feed it any thing i have had it for about 4mth.it has layed down it foot and is liveing in some of my zoas ... so bright lights healthy tanks i think u can keep them

[King-Kong]

Originally posted by mbbuna
not to start any debates or anything and not to say that clam wont benefit from some filter feeding,but clams need intense lighting and can sustain themselves on light alone even when they are very small. heres a study that was done with larval clams and they never received any particulate to filter.

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=000...2-N&size=LARGE

I confirmed this also, in my tank. I purchased one of these tiny maximas and I never feed any phyto directly, or to my tank. I only feed my fish large particle food. I run BB and skim wet, and my corals are lightly colored. My maxima has shown good solid growth and coloration for the past 6 months.

[Atticus]

Originally posted by mbbuna
thats not really the point. for a few years now its been beaten into peoples heads that small clams will die if they are not feed "phytoplankton" and that is simply not true.
to keep clams healthy and growing they need very intense light and a source of N&P. if you have intense lighting and a healthy, well feed fish population there will be plenty of N&P for the zoox in the clam.

I believe the original intent of phyto feedings to less than 2.5 inch clams has been scewed a bit. The original reasoning behind the advice is actually supported by article you referanced above. The advice to give phyto feedings was to help suppliment clams with small surface area. This small surface area does not allow for large amounts of zoox to be exposed to our lighting. Unfortunatly we do not have lighting with nearly the spectrum or intensity of natural sunlight, this was especially true when this feeding advice was originated.

So, we can see where a disadvantage can occur when trying to support a small clam. Low light and small surface area mean the clam is meeting its minimum if it survives. Supplimental feedings will allow a clam to gain extra nutrients that will allow it to grow and increase its surface area.

We also have to admit that nature does not waste time building structures that are not important to an animal's survival, these animals are well equiped to be filter feeders and should be fed as such. The benefits of faster growth and greater coloration far out weigh the minimal cost of additional feedings.

[mbbuna]

Originally posted by Atticus
The original reasoning behind the advice is actually supported by article you referanced above.

i disagree, do you mind showing me where?

The advice to give phyto feedings was to help suppliment clams with small surface area.

the size of the mantle is proportionate to the size of the clam throughout its life. so proportionatly a 1/2" clam has the same mantle surface area as a 10" clam

This small surface area does not allow for large amounts of zoox to be exposed to our lighting.

again, the mantle is proportionate to the size of the clam, and so is the size of the zoox population

Unfortunatly we do not have lighting with nearly the spectrum or intensity of natural sunlight, this was especially true when this feeding advice was originated.

lighting has improved since then. we still cant place the sun over our tanks but i always recommend intense, full spectrum light.

We also have to admit that nature does not waste time building structures that are not important to an animal's survival, these animals are well equiped to be filter feeders and should be fed as such.

clams use there gills for other things also, and just because one says that clams can sustain themselves on light alone doesnt mean they don't or wont filter feed.

The benefits of faster growth and greater coloration far out weigh the minimal cost of additional feedings.

its not a cost thing, the food is already there. i don't intentionally feed my clams. i have a large system with a large fish population that is feed well. i also have a large clam population that grows very well and is very colorful.

this all go's back to an article that was written that claimed if you don't feed clams"phytoplankton" they will die, this is untrue. this article also claimed that clams "only"eat phytoplankton, this is also not true.

[trae]

None of the replies are wrong just based on individual experience and situation. Supplemental feedings need to be administered, i have two; dang peppermint stressed one to death. I think if you take all of the advice and choose a technique of your own. you will be giving someone totaly different advice a year from now.
http://www.melevsreef.com/pics/0504/baby_maxima.html

[Atticus]

i disagree, do you mind showing me where?

Quote from article:

Survival and growth of veligers and juveniles with zooxanthellae was greater than those without zooxanthellae. Juveniles with zooxanthellae can survive and grow in Millipore-filtered seawater with light as the sole energy source for over 10 months, illustrating the phototrophic aspect of the association.

This article does not tell what lighting they used. They said zoox was key, so those stessed by transport or other stressors that have lost zoox will be at a severe disadvantage, nothing we didn't know. I would like to know how many clams they lost while trying to grow them out in filtered water. The article only shows they "CAN" survive, it does not imply that is how they should be raised.

lighting has improved since then. we still cant place the sun over our tanks but i always recommend intense, full spectrum light.

That was my point. The information was dated and the technology was limited when phyto advice was being handed out.

because one says that clams can sustain themselves on light alone doesnt mean they don't or wont filter feed.

Agreed

its not a cost thing, the food is already there.

Not in the quality or quantity it could be with occasional supplimental feedings. We have already learned that corals do better with supplimental feeding, why go backwards with clams?

this all go's back to an article that was written that claimed if you don't feed clams"phytoplankton" they will die, this is untrue.
this article also claimed that clams "only"eat phytoplankton, this is also not true.

Again agree fully. That is the problem with hobbies, there is no regulation on what gets printed and little research is done before an oppinion becomes gospel.

[Joshua1023]

Well I've had mine for a week and its doing great so far. I have it about 7" from the mh light. I do like Prugs said and clean the glass daily. My other clams seem to have perked up as well. I don't know if that is in my head though.

[Gem Tang Rider]

Originally posted by Joshua1023
Well I've had mine for a week and its doing great so far. I have it about 7" from the mh light. I do like Prugs said and clean the glass daily. My other clams seem to have perked up as well. I don't know if that is in my head though.

I'm glad to here it.
I believe the key is good lighting, & a well established reef tank.
Also no clam nippers.
Now that your on your way to getting more clams, make sure the ones you add are healthy.

[Kalkbreath]

I'll offer my two scutes.
I talk with three major Tridacna clam farmers monthly.
None of them feed their farm clams with any form of supplemental plankton.
They all do however, when they want to get them to grow faster ...feed with nitrogen/ammonia fertilizer pellets.
But they understand that they are actually feeding the tiny zooxanthella inside the clams , more so then the clams themselves.
They also don't suggest hobbyists feed clams in their aquarium anything other then ammonia in the form of fish waste.
There are many studies comparing clam growth with and without fish in the system. Fishless systems always yield slower growth.
It's the constant supply of ammonia feeding the zooxanthella which is important.
I have studied clams for a few years now; under the microscope, one can clearly witness the zooxanthella inside a clam's blood stream and stomach along with amoebsites which farm the zooxanthella, a little bacteria and not much else.....
But oddly enough , I have never found plankton?[neither zoo plankton or phytoplankton] EVEN after days of target feeding.
It seems that when fed, clams do filter out plankton from the water and it can be found concentrated on their gills. But with filter feeders, they filter every thing in the water, so the plankton gets stuck to their gills just like every thing else in the aquarium water.
[ Just like filter floss would stain out indiscriminately ]
Just because the clam filters the water , does not mean the clam is eating the plankton.
In order to be eaten , the clam must ingest the plankton.
Ingesting food is carried out when the clams gills allow only certain substances to pass through their membranes. Kinda like a reverse osmosis filter.
Most of what a tridacna clam filters with its gills is ultimately pooped out or coughed up before it ever gets into the clams digestive system.
Clams dont even let non motile zooxanthella past their gills.
Preferring zooxanthella with tails. It is thought that its the swimming action of the zoos tails that triggers the opening of the gates so to speak and into its stomach.
Some feel that yes, clams do seem to have the appropriate mouth parts to feed and therefor nature would not of designed them with such mouth parts for feeding if they did not intend to make use these feeding abilities.....
BUT! One could ague that the sole use for this feeding ability is to take in Zooxanthella .
Afterall, without his ability to feed on Zooxanthella , baby clams would die . Baby clams are not born with zooxanthella inside their body.
Giant clams may simply use this feeding ability as a way to inoculate themselves with zooxanthella.
As humans, we have several uder utilized organs, such as our tonsils, appendix and for many of us , our "better judgement"

Furthermore, There are reports of clams choking on too much plankton paste and it clogging their gills and clams dying from too much of a good thing in over fed, low pH,nutrient rich aquariums.from overfeeding. Contrary to a misconception, clams dont like high Nitrate levels.
I at times wonder if the bad rap small calms get for being difficult to raise, comes more from hobbyists killing small clams by feeding them........then these young clams would do if just treated like any other coral or anemone, with proper water conditions and a well cycled tank?

[ezcompany]

very interesting!
time to bust out my James F. book and compare data

[Stoney Mahony]

The main reason that clam farmers do not feed phytoplankton to juvi clams is b/c the fecundity of clams is so high that they dont need to. When they take into account the labor intesive algae cultures, space required, time, and cost it's just not worth it. They get so many clams from one spawn that they are already culling and throwing away excess dull colored ones to make room for the ultra/1st grades when they use no plankton. Plankton DOES lead to a greater survivability rate in juvi clams. Here is an quote from a ctsa publication:
"Giant clam larvae can be raised to metamorphosis without any external source of food. However, feeding giant clam larvae starting on day three post spawn has been shown to greatly improve survival. Feeding should take place once every two days until zooxenthella populations are well established in the gut. Despite evidence showing improved survival of larvae that are given food, many culturalists choose not to feed larvae, citing the extremely high fecundity of giant clams reduces the importance of improved larval survival."

Now, this is talking specifically about clam larvae/juvis, not 1-2" clams. At that size, I agree that all that is need is good water quality and lighting. As Kalkbreath said, they use ammonium nitrate(Liquid form IME) to directly feed the zooxenthella at a rate of 4g/1000l water every morning to inrease the nitrogen levels enough for the rest of the day. Amonium nitrate has been shown to signifacantly increase clam growth and improve conditions in land based systems. I have seen Tridacna Maxima larvae under a stereo microscope and you can clearly see the algae present in the gut. As the populations of zooxenthella increase, the % of algae decreases.

[jay24k]

I'd like to see where corals do better with supplemental feedings also because I don't believe that at all. I could possibly see corals that require feedings like dendros but SPS and LPS do not need supplemental feedings by any means.

I also agree that clams do not need phyto and if not done correctly can actually kill them. I've had a few clams that I've never used phyto on that has grown as fast as any other clam that has had it. This was done by a friend who swore it made em grow quicker.

[Atticus]

Originally posted by jay24k
I'd like to see where corals do better with supplemental feedings also because I don't believe that at all. I could possibly see corals that require feedings like dendros but SPS and LPS do not need supplemental feedings by any means.

I hope you are kidding... Do you not feed your fish because you have live rock and there is food for them that grows out of it???

Humans also do not need feeding they can survive for a week on air and water alone, heck if they have decent fat stores maybe longer.... Why starve your corals, clams, and other critters when proper foods are available???

If you want to see a coral feeding response put a teaspoon of brine shrimp or clam juice in your tank. Corals also extend their polyps most at night, funny how that coincides perfectly with plankton, both phyto and zoo, blooms...

This thread has become the polar opposite of the orignal post that was taken out of context and lead people to believe that clams would die without feedings. Clams and corals with photosynthetic zoox can survive on light and clean water, but they do not do so in the wild and should not be forced to solely survive in this sterile manner in our tanks. When you purchase a living thing you take responsibility for its quality of life and well being, respect your critters.