Seachem Phosguard

[REEFY1]

is this bad to use in a reef aquarium with SPS, i need a PO4 remover my test kit salifert says 0 but i have some hair algae so i know their are phosphates- HELP !!!

[demonsp]

Whats the water source like if i need to ask .

[Percula9]

Nitrates also can fuel algal problems.

[The0wn4g3]

No, I've been running SeaChem's Phogaurd in my mixed tank (only 4 SPS) for months. It does a very good job when used in a reactor, and a decent job when not. PO4 seems to be dead 0 ever since I bought the reactor.

[bertoni]

I wouldn't use PhosGuard in a reef tank:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...y2003/chem.htm

The GFO products, like the Warner and PhosBan, seem to work better, anyway.

[The0wn4g3]

I'm not so great when it comes to chemistry, no doubt about that... but after reading that article (thanks for the info btw, did not know that) it states:

"Table 4 summarizes the results for a serious of samples in which commercial Phosguard (75 mL) was placed into contact with aquarium water or freshly made Instant Ocean artificial seawater (500 mL)."

75mL in 500mL of IO is a ridiculously large amount for such a small amount of water. The instruction on the PhosGaurd is 250mL per 75-100gal. If my conversions are correct, 1 US gal = 3,785mL.
At maximum dosage that's 250mL per 283,875mL of saltwater, or 0.24L to 283L.
I would think this MUCH larger dilution would reduce the ppm count to a very, very small amount.
Am I totally wrong?

I have used Rowaphos, Phosban, and Phosguard, and have seen no real difference in the way they remove or effect reef tanks. I use PhosGuard simply because it is so much cheaper for the same performance.

Thanks.

[bertoni]

The total amount amount of PhosGuard in the system would be far smaller than in the article, and the aluminum would go down proportionately, but aluminum can be toxic in very small doses. The article was written because many people were reporting problems using PhosGuard.

The point of the experiment was to determine if the media might leach aluminum, not to simulate a tank.

[The0wn4g3]

I realize the point of the experiment, but according to that article feeding with brine shrimp releases much more aluminum than PhosGuard ever could.
I have personally seen 3 mature mixed reef tanks on the verge of totally crash due to the use of ROWAphos.

What I'm saying is I don't believe it's fair to throw up a link and recommend not using Phosguard. The moajority of people won't even read the article. All products have their disadvantages, and when it comes to either having minute amounts of aluminum or high PO4, personally I'm going with the minute amounts of aluminum.

PS: Props on that quick reply, that's amazing! haha

[bertoni]

The article doesn't say that brine shrimp will raise the aluminum level in the water column more than PhosGuard. That data isn't available. Also, the form of the aluminum in brine shrimp is unknown, so its toxicity cannot be evaluated. The form in PhosGuard is particulate.

Any PO₄ remover can crash a tank, from what I can tell. I just don't see the point of taking the additional risk when using PhosGuard.

[The0wn4g3]

"If you fed 5 grams of it to a 100 gallon tank every day, that would amount to 5 g x 120 mg/kg = 0.6 mg/day or 219 mg/year. Added to that 100 gallons (379 L), that gives an addition of 219 mg/378 L/y = 0.6 ppm per year. "

If we are worried about a tiny amount of particulate aluminum leached from Phosguard, i believe it's safe to say we should also be worried about 0.6ppm of unknown aluminum from brine shrimp.

Originally posted by bertoni
Any PO₄ remover can crash a tank, from what I can tell. I just don't see the point of taking the additional risk when using PhosGuard.

Perhaps if that had been stated in the original post it would not have sounded like you were shooting down a product and promoting others that are relatively just as risky.

What do you depend on, if anything, to remove the PO4 from your tank?

[bertoni]

I read that quote. In no way does it state that the aluminum ends up in the water column. The article does caution about some possible danger from feeding brine shrimp.

I use GFO products because I think they're likely safer. Aluminum is known to be toxic at very low levels. Iron isn't.

[The0wn4g3]

"...the exact nature of the aluminum in these tests may well be different than in the toxicity tests reported above. That is, the nature may be particulate vs. colloidal vs. soluble vs. complexed by organics, etc."

I believe that means the same for the Phosguard as it does for the brine shrimp.

To each his own I suppose. Thanks for the information and clarification on all of my questions/comments.