OT - Woodworkers, thoughts?

[RokleM]

I have the kind of cheapo 10" $150-200ish Craftsman tablesaw. I've used this for a number of projects, and it's served it's purpose well. However, it's been primarily for extremely rough cuts.

I've been thinking about picking up some woodworking for a long time, and now wanting to make some acrylic pieces has pushed me further towards that "hardware" goal.

The problem is 2 fold: 1) I have a table saw, but the fence is horrible, and the table is incredibly small. 2) I also have the professional Craftsman 2.25hp interchangeable router, but no table for it (acrylic edging).

For the table saw, I've thought about either the Biesemeyer Home Fence Systems that basically expand the table greatly and replaces the fence. Unfortunately, no one in Columbus stocks this, it would be special order, and I'm out of luck if I don't like it. Is this a good route? Should I build an expansion myself and buy a new fence individually? Should I just sell the table and buy something else that is more an all-in-one already?

I'm thinking I could buy one of the router adapter plates and put it in a laminated MDF surface (I believe that's what it is, white smooth material). I had wanted to kind of integrate that into my tablesaw system so I could use the fence, but I haven't really seen anything that does that aside from 100% home built systems.

FYI, my main area will be in my basement (15-20' from my 180). I'm working on developing a separation/wall or something to protect the tank. I have a dust collection system I need to setup. I do have room for a tablesaw and such, but it won't be easy to get in and out of the basement if necessary (which is why I was thinking about the "add on" which I could take apart. I wish I had more room in the garage, or another garage all together.

Yes, I realize I just asked a ton of questions which will likely yield about 10000 different options

[formanbob]

Hey I have an aftermarket craftsman fence system not as good as the delta ones but it is not bad. It looks like this one just a year or two older, if you wantto work something out let me know…

[jakano]

I am very interested in this thread as well so tagging along. I just went to Woodcraft in Hilliard with Sharkeeper this afternoon looking around. They have some VERY nice table saws in stock and special order. I have an 8" craftsman table saw that is at least 20 years old and have been looking at getting a replacement. Sharkeeper is going to get a General hybrid saw from them (more than likely) and I have to admit its one of the nicest saws I have seen in that price range. They were also showing us a new saw out that sends an electric signal along the blade that when the blade gets touched by something conductive (finger, metal) it instantly shuts off and retracts the blade into the table.
Of course it was like $3500 and way out of our price range but it sure was cool. If i were you I would look into just getting a new saw. As much as the fence systems can cost you get a decent contractor saw for around $400 and sell your old saw on craigslist or something. Even these "lower grade" saws are better than the top dollar stuff of 10-15 years ago.

[Norm R]

I agree, go with a new saw if it is an option. The retros on these are never quite the same. A good fence makes all of the difference in the world.

I'd also recommend checking out Woodwerks if you haven't already. That is where I bought all of my bigger equipment. Woodcraft is good on the specialty stuff and smaller tools. Just my .02.

[RokleM]

Originally posted by formanbob
Hey I have an aftermarket craftsman fence system not as good as the delta ones but it is not bad. It looks like this one just a year or two older, if you wantto work something out let me know…

I could take a look, but I don't know if that will fit my saw. How deep is it?



jakano, at least I'm not the only one stalking that place. I've been there a couple of times in the last week. Are you talking about that one right inside the door to the left? Looking at it your back would be to the counter. I was admiring that earlier ($1000ish I think).

I kind of figured most everyone would say just buy a new unit honestly. I haven't been out to Woodwerks yet, but will probalby try to make it out there this week (their hours aren't very friendly).

I can probably manage the router piece with minimal issue if I can figure out how to do the table insert and such. So does anyone have a specific suggestion for a new table saw if I go that route? Anything to stay away from? I would prefer to keep it under $1000, $500-750 would make me much happier but I'm not sure how feasible that is. Something I can get into the basement without killing myself, is slightly mobile so I can move it around my somewhat limited area (although I may have a huge 20x20 area if I get into this seriously), keep dust to a minimum, etc would be optimum.

[jh2pizza]

I have helped install shop fox fences on two different craftsman saws and love it more and more. Dollar for Dollar, they are hard to beat IMO. At the time Grizley tools had the best price. They generaly have 7' slide rails with them so you can extend the table, mount the router on the end and use the same fence for both the router and table saw. Just made a great set up.

[RokleM]

Originally posted by jh2pizza
I have helped install shop fox fences on two different craftsman saws and love it more and more. Dollar for Dollar, they are hard to beat IMO. At the time Grizley tools had the best price. They generaly have 7' slide rails with them so you can extend the table, mount the router on the end and use the same fence for both the router and table saw. Just made a great set up.

That's pretty much the setup I was thinking about.

[szwab]

i would also look into jointech fences. I have one you are more than welcome to stop by and check it out. I love mine on my craftsman table saw. It's especially handy if you are thinking of integrating a router table. I can take a pic of my set up on thursday if you like(no shows) .
pretty much you are looking at an after market fence IMO most systems are lacking in the fence quality dept.

[Shark Keeper]

Ok here goes nothing.

As Jakano said I am looking at the General, Delta, or a Grizzley and I too am trying to make it out to Woodwerks to see what they have. I plan to get out there today hopefully. I have not been there in quite some time so I cant wait.

As for building on yourself. DONT TRY IT! I did and am now finding differnt things to do with all of the pieces that I cut to make the combo router/saw table. Jim at Woodcraft told me that you can always add a router adaptor to your table saw and it will not be that hard. Biesemeyer is made by delta and is quite a bit more just for the name IMO. I had bought the Delta fence but decided to return it once I decided to just buy a new unit.

[RokleM]

_IF_ I can get out of work at a decent time, I'm headed over there today as well.

[Briney Dave]

Hey guys, here is my two cents. My wood shop guy buys a lot of grizzly due to the ratio of cost to durablility. He is a firm fan with their company and the school has several of their tools

I personally, like my craftsman, I have a larger one with has a cast iron table top and includes a router mount.
the trouble is that it is not wide enough for a full sheet of plywood. the roller stands are a good solution for guys with limited space

I am going to build a wall cabnet on rollers that will butt up against the table saw to handle whole sheets of materials.

Just like the reef hobby read first before buying a table saw. Money does not promise the best for your situation

your pal
Briney

[Shark Keeper]

I agree with Briney.

I have used the General at my buddies shop and love the quality. As for the general I have just heard a lot of great things about them. I have seen mixed results about the craftsmen table saws and that is why I have sort of steered away from them.

As with this hobby there are TON of options and opinions.

[prance1520]

Lots of interest in this stuff lately, I think George's talk got us all excited.

I'm not nearly the woodworker that most of you are, but I just bought a Hitachi tablesaw and I'm really happy with it. The fence is easy to work with and seems to be fairly accurate.

But I'm definately no professional, and have no idea how much better others are. I'd be curious to hear from you guys who are very good, what differences do you see between the great fences and the average ones? Are the average ones inaccurate, if so, usually by how much? Harder to work with? Are they not straight cuts sometimes? Just curious to hear.

Just to add to this, what are peoples recommendations on router tables? Any good commercial models out there? Split fence with micro-adjustments?

Finally, anyone remember where George recommended getting 80tooth triple-chip blades from? Thanks!

[hangles]

Hi Eric
IMO for a table top router the INCRA JIG fence system is the best for making perfect cuts. you can cut dove tail joints on this all day long and they fit . but this is for a larger table top. probibly a craftsman or grizzly table top router table would work fine and both have a decent fence. I think you can get a plunge router attachment for your router for inside work.
for a table saw powermatic is the finest pound for pound but you want something to move so a grizzly would be good. get one with some horse power if your blade slows it burns or chips. roller stands are great for large stuff. all in all if you set up your saw right when you get it home it will do just fine no matter what the brand as long as it has a cast top.
hope this helps!

[verper]

Buy a few woodworking tool review magazines and read them. No disrespect, but some of the names being thrown out are well known to be substandard tools. Eric, you own Tunzes, right? Have owned Maxijets, and maybe Seios? Same process with woodworking tools. You get what you pay for. Decide how much you will use this tablesaw and set your price accordingly. You don't need a $3500 cabinet saw (much less getting it in your basement), but there are many options on contractor grade saws out there.

I am one of the few that will say that a quality aftermarket fence is your best bang for the buck. If your current saw had good power and runs well, an aftermarket fence will make it so much easier to use. I had a Jet contractor saw 10 yrs ago and put a 40" Biesemeyer Homeshop fence with side table on it and kept it another 8 years. Took the fence off before I sold the saw and now have it installed on 1948 Delta Unisaw. You set up that fence once. Try a quality commercial fence (pick your brand) from someone local. You'll immediately see the difference.

[Norm R]

If I were to redo it, I would check out some of the brands being mentioned because I believe their quality has improved in recent years. With that said, I have all Powermatic and Jet stationary equipment, except a Delta shaper. I'm very pleased with all of it. IMO, JET stationary tools remain a good buy across the board. They used to make substandard tools but have greatly improved quality in the past 15 years, now equal to Powematic and exceeding Delta, IMO. Jet now owns Powermatic BTW. Prior to reefing, THIS used to be my life.

Just my .02

[RokleM]

Originally posted by verper
Buy a few woodworking tool review magazines and read them. No disrespect, but some of the names being thrown out are well known to be substandard tools.

Already on it I wanted to see what everyone local used as well, with the benefit of dropping by people's houses potentially to see them in action. Just like we see here, there are tons of people who publish "facts" and "findings", but local resources you rely on having practical experience typically almost always yield the best true results.

Woodwerks had a TON of stuff, and a very knowledgeable staff. I am very happy I swung by there. Now off to do more research

[formanbob]

I will say this, my new cabinet saw has a Biesemeyer, and when I was in wood shop the 30 year old tablesaw had Biesemeyer.

Thats all I have.

[szwab]

a good fence can make a 100% improvement in a table saw IMO.

[lakee911]

Check out a place in town called Workwerks. http://www.woodwerks.com/ They cater to the professional woodworker, but are there for the hobbiest too. Very good knowledgable staff and and awesome selection of tools! If you need opinions or to see something first hand, check them out.

Jason

[newsalt1]

I have a Grizzly that I bought 15 or 18 years ago and it has been an absolute pleasure to own and use. There are several fence manufactures out there like Shop Fox that will add accuracy to your saw.

If you are not going to do a lot of woodworking I would stick with ( can't believe I am saying this ) your Craftsman ( boy that hurt ) up grade your fence, then put your money into a quality router table and router for doing the acrylic.

I have a pretty well stocked shop, with all of the major tool companies represented Delta, Jet, Dewalt, Grizzly, Hitachi, Porter Cable, etc. etc. and the tool I use the most is my router table and router.

Look into Rockler, it's a wood working company. We have a Rockler store here in Cleveland they are very well stocked with most of the tools. They have a pretty decent in house line of router tables and accessories, plus name brands. They have a decent website and catalogue to read through and drool over.

With the router table, the right bits and router, you can do almost anything other than ripping and cross cuts. IMHO

[lakee911]

Woodwerks carries Rockler products too

[prance1520]

What about for router tables? Do you guys build your own or buy them? What kind of fences for your routers do you recommend? Split fences or straight? Anyone have or use the bench dog line?