Acrylic fabrication questions? I can help!

[Acrylicman]

I've been manufacturing custom acrylic aquarium systems for a long time and as long as time permits ,I don't mind helping people with there personal projects. There is a lot of misinformation out there and many ways to do the same thing. There is always more to learn and I don't mind exchanging experiences! Good luck with all your projects! Sincerely, Acrylicman

[Taoism]

wow, that corner tank looks cool

Ok...ummm... how'd you make it? ;p

Cheers,
Keith.

[kanankeban]

Could you explain in simple words all the steps in building a acrylic tank...with tips and tricks and of course some pics? It will be great if you could....
if you give me the pics and text I could design some web pages and post them in my site so everybody can see them...with your copyright of course...

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by Taoism
wow, that corner tank looks cool

Ok...ummm... how'd you make it? ;p

Cheers,
Keith.

That tank is called the Lagoon system. I could write a book on how it was built, but just to give a brief rundown.

It is in two parts, each part has four bends. One part is just like the frobt and sides of a Flat back hex and the other part is like a 5 sided nipple. The flat back section is solvent cemented to the nipple section, one side at a time.

Then the unit is trim flush routed on the sides and a top is glued on. with the unit upside down a 2" framework of 3/8" black is glued through out the perimeter on the inside. Then it is trim flush routed and the middle is disposed of. It leaves a thick 2" trim all away around with no seams. Then the bottom is put on and the whole thing is trim flush routed and flame polished.

This is a simple description, The bends all have to be powered planed to allow flawless and strong seams.

It is fun to build after thousands of rectangle tanks, I like the odd shapes, especially when there is matching acrylic furniture stands etc.

Acrylicman

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by kanankeban
Could you explain in simple words all the steps in building a acrylic tank...with tips and tricks and of course some pics? It will be great if you could....
if you give me the pics and text I could design some web pages and post them in my site so everybody can see them...with your copyright of course...

Am I answering these questions correctly, I'm new to this and I don't know what I'm doing.


I could write a whole series of books on the subject.

Actually I am doing just that.

There is to much to say, but ask me something specific and I'm willing to let some secrets of the trade out.
Acrylicman

[David Grigor]

I've been doing a number of amatuer acrylic jobs ( 15-20 projects ). The owner of a local acrylic shop took the time to show me how to get bubble free joints using the capillary method. Basically had felt pad on his work table with a back panel perpendicular to the workbench. He clamped one piece to the back of the workbench and applied pressure to the bottom piece just in front of the glue applicator while applying. He made it look so easy. I have tried a number of times to replicate but the longer the piece or the thicker the harder it is to apply a steady and enough pressure.

I can do a pretty good job with 1/4" this way but 1/2" is alot harder to apply the pressure.


Is this a technique you recommend or is there a better trick to it ?

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by David Grigor
I've been doing a number of amatuer acrylic jobs ( 15-20 projects ). The owner of a local acrylic shop took the time to show me how to get bubble free joints using the capillary method. Basically had felt pad on his work table with a back panel perpendicular to the workbench. He clamped one piece to the back of the workbench and applied pressure to the bottom piece just in front of the glue applicator while applying. He made it look so easy. I have tried a number of times to replicate but the longer the piece or the thicker the harder it is to apply a steady and enough pressure.

I can do a pretty good job with 1/4" this way but 1/2" is alot harder to apply the pressure.


Is this a technique you recommend or is there a better trick to it ?

I'll give you a quick simple explanation for you to experiment with.

Assuming you have a good square joint and the table is straight,(you could shim the piece) About every 6 inches put a 25 gauge needle in the seam to give a little space (sewing pins are fine)

Apply the solvent and let it soak, (10 sec-1.5 minutes) depends on solvent type ,what is mixed with it and type of acrylic. Then pull the needles and the material will sink and make a fillet on both sides of the seam.(This is important because as it dries,it contracts and you don't want to pull in any air). You may want to add a little weight.

This is a very simple explanation for an art, but I can get flawless seams with 2" material.

Sincerely, Acrylicman

[David Grigor]

So does that work with the thinner solvents such as Weldon #3 or 4 ? I had heard of using razor blades but never actually tried.

If I understand correctly you pull out the pins before it fully sets ?

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by David Grigor
So does that work with the thinner solvents such as Weldon #3 or 4 ? I had heard of using razor blades but never actually tried.

If I understand correctly you pull out the pins before it fully sets ?

Use Weldon 4 (pull pins 10-30 sec.) depending on brand/type of acrylic.

Weldon3 sets to quickly, you will not get a strong enough bond.

It takes days to fully set. Pull pins when it has start to soften the acrylic.

Sincerely, Acrylicman

[kanankeban]

Acrylicman,
I'll like to know more about finishing, I bought a white paste block and a brown one, I think they are called buffing compounds, and two types of cloth discs (buffing wheels), one coarse and one smooth and don't have a idea one how to use them. what is flame polish?
Regards...
Hector

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by kanankeban
Acrylicman,
I'll like to know more about finishing, I bought a white paste block and a brown one, I think they are called buffing compounds, and two types of cloth discs (buffing wheels), one coarse and one smooth and don't have a idea one how to use them. what is flame polish?
Regards...
Hector

In most professional situations we flame polish. Occasionally for a few reasons we don't want to put so much stress (heat) on the seam and we'll polish a seam manually. Especially if it is a glued edge and have been machined heavily (Like a radius or chamfer (45 degree) put on the edge).

Flame polishing is generally done with hydrogen and oxygen and a brazing tip is used. The technique is not important since it isn't something you keep in the garage.

Propane gas and butane won't work, although a butane torch has been known to do emergency touchups.

Acetylene can work if handled properly, even though most professional would say not. You must be careful because of the soot residue. I have successfully use it, but the flame is harder to keep lit and control because the heat has to be kept very low. Hydrogen burns clean and with a little practice can do an excellent job.

Crazing is more likely with flame polishing, but that is another lengthy subject in itself.

Buffing is good for a home project. Prepare your edge down to 600-1000 wet/sand. Get it wet sanded well enough in which it is already starting to shine. I use wet sandpaper on a palm sander and a spray bottle to keep the edge wet.

Make sure your wheels are clean between uses, a dirty wheel can cause scratches. If you have wet sanded at length you can go to a fine compound. I actually prefer wet compound ,like Novus 2 or 3. Start spinning your wheel and put your fine compound block on it, a little compound is fine. Start carefully working your wheel across your seam. Always be moving (you don't want to burn the material). Work a small area until there is a shine and then move to the next. Repeat the procedure 2-3 times. Then clean the edge with a polish. It will take longer but you can get an incredible shine with a little work.

Sincerely, Acrylicman

[LiquidShaneo]

Acrylicman: Where are you located in Ohio?

Shane

[SciGuy2]

Acrylicman:

I built a DIY overflow a while back and was very happy with it. The problem is after 1 year it started to craze. It was fine for over a year. Why do you think this has ahppened?

Thanks,

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by LiquidShaneo
Acrylicman: Where are you located in Ohio?

Shane

Columbia Station, Ohio
Sincerely, Acrylicman

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by SciGuy2
Acrylicman:

I built a DIY overflow a while back and was very happy with it. The problem is after 1 year it started to craze. It was fine for over a year. Why do you think this has ahppened?

Thanks,

It could be many factors.

The two most probable, is the type of acrylic and Putting it in water before fully curing( which could be weeks even months depending on solvents.

Machining has factor. Was the bits/blades sharp? Was the feed rate to quick etc.

The edges that you solvent cemented probably had micropitting from irregular machining.

The skill in acrylic fabrication with products that go in the water is the fact that acrylic absorbs its weight in water by 2%. Water makes the acrylic expand.

The solvents make acrylic molecular bonds expand then contract as they dry?

Guess what happens over time when you place your acrylic products in water (which makes them expand) when the solvents are still making them contract. The bottom line is a tremendous amount of stress.

Does the product have stress from water pressure?

Surface crazing believe or not can come from pressure, low density acrylics (extruded) and the big one is the fumes from the curing process stay contained and stress the material, and then when water is added it can eventually become a mess.

Is your seams becoming white and degridated?

What type of acrylic did you use and how old was it? What type of solvents did you use?and hold old was the solvents? What method of solvent cementing did you use? Were you messy and touched the surface with solvents?

There are many variables and more often than not is is many of them.


My most successful aquariums (as far as years without crazing) even ones under extreme pressure, were tanks that were not setup with water for at least a month and better yet a few months.

Now that is not a cure all if you don't use the right solvents, the right technique and especially the right acrylics!

Good luck fellow fabricators. Sincerely, Acrylicman

[Snook]

Acrylicman,

Is there a way to bond acrylic to epoxy? I'm going to build a large tank and would like to use acrylic for one end and a side the others would be wood covered with epoxy and glass cloth. Would it be better to build the whole tank from acrylic? Thanks

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by Snook
Acrylicman,

Is there a way to bond acrylic to epoxy? I'm going to build a large tank and would like to use acrylic for one end and a side the others would be wood covered with epoxy and glass cloth. Would it be better to build the whole tank from acrylic? Thanks

My recommendation it to not do it.

People have had success doing what you outline with wood and glass. They mechanically fasten the glass and use silicone and epoxy. I've heard of people going 20 years before the tank leaked.

Acrylic does not bond well to silicone, It may be adequate to bond an overflow in a glass tank, but I would never build an acrylic tank with silicone.

There are epoxy's and 2 part solvents that will bond acrylic to wood, but I would never trust it in an aquarium application.

Even Weldon 16 will glue acrylic to wood. If it is a porous wood, it is quite strong. I still would not trust it in an aquarium application.

In public aquarias they do have acrylic fronts with dissimiliar materials, but they generally mechanical fastened in metal tracks and epoxied.

My expertise is not there and I wouldn't feel comfortable doing or recommending a mixed material tank.

I've known quite a few people who have tried to make tanks like you are describing to save money. Usually they say it wasn't worth it.

Have it built or learn yourself. It can be done safely in your garage if the basics are learned and followed. It may not have the flawless seams of a professionals, but there are ways it can be done safely and that will hold indefinitely.

I'm writing a series of ebooks on all these subjects.

If enough people are interested maybe we can work on a project on this forum.

We all started somewhere. Even though I have built thousands of aquarium systems of every shape and size, I spent the first 3 years slapping together tanks in my garage. They might not of had the flawless seams I can do now, but they all held water always as far as I no.

I spent many years of trial and error, maybe I can help a few people not make the thousands of mistakes I made.

Sincerely, Acrylicman

[Acrylicman]

Here is some pictures!

[LiquidShaneo]

Please keep us posted on the ebooks you're writing. I know a number of people around here would definitely be interested.

Shane

[SciGuy2]

Acrylicman,

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. But you do paint a very grim picture for DIY acrylic projects for the home aquaria.

I used new plastic and new Weld-On 4 from a plastic store with lots of turnover. I cut the acrylic with a new blade at a speed just great enough to prevent melting of the stock and then cleaned up the edges with sandpaper. I used the capillary glueing technique.

The peice was allowed to cure only for 1 week prior to putting it into service. The piece that is crazing is the u-tube that I'd consider to be in a fairly high stress area.

Thanks again,

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by SciGuy2
Acrylicman,

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. But you do paint a very grim picture for DIY acrylic projects for the home aquaria.

I used new plastic and new Weld-On 4 from a plastic store with lots of turnover. I cut the acrylic with a new blade at a speed just great enough to prevent melting of the stock and then cleaned up the edges with sandpaper. I used the capillary glueing technique.

The peice was allowed to cure only for 1 week prior to putting it into service. The piece that is crazing is the u-tube that I'd consider to be in a fairly high stress area.

Thanks again,

I would not worry about the u tube. If you made the u tube out of extruded tubing (which you probably did, because cast tubing is very expensive) it crazes just from gluing it. The density in the tubing is very low. Or if it is butyrene tube you'll have the same problem.

It will be fine as far as its function.

As far as DIY projects, it can be done. I'm writing about 20 booklets on how and why it can be done. On a budget and affordably.

The high tech machinery is not always the best way.

I spent many, many years building the finest aquariums systems and filters with a saw jointer and router. (a few thousand dollars in tools). As a matter of fact I spent many years with a dozen employees and put out 50 aquarium systems and 100's a filter systems a month with just a few saws,jointers,planers ,routers.and shop built benders. We did very high quality work. Acrylic company's want you to believe different. I will show there wrong. I know other multimillion dollar company's that build everthing with $5000 in tools. They have 15-20 employees also.

Expensive machinery speed up production and in certain instances quality but it usually isn't worth the dollars.

Keep positive about DIY. Eventually I will show what really can be done.

Keep on fabricating! Sincerely, Acrylicman

[LiquidShaneo]

How soon do you anticipate these books to be complete?

Shane

[SciGuy2]

Same here. Please tell when the books come out and how we can obtain them.

I have the classic "Working with Acrylic" by Craftics, Inc., but it sounds like you have a lot more infomation than that old book does.

Thanks,

[Acrylicman]

Originally posted by LiquidShaneo
How soon do you anticipate these books to be complete?

Shane

These will not be little books. There is about 20 manuals planned with cd's full of pictures. They will be inexpensive.

These will be complete courses on the subject, complete with details on jig and bender constructions.

Full detailed pictures and suppliers etc.

You could start a business with all the info planned.

The first general fabrication manual will be ready in a month or two. It will be downloadable, and the picture cd's will be mailed.

They will all be available on my website that is being revamped.

From there each topic will be in great detail in subsequent manuals and then eventually specific projects will be done. Plans pictures etc. will be furnished. The projects will be for learning.

Eventually it will be like taking a course, with detail textbooks etc.

I intend to try to relate every ounce of my almost 20years (at 60-70hours per week) experience and knowledge in a multimedia format that anyone with common sense and a little mechanical ability could build professional quality products.

Bear with me and in the mean time,I don't mind helping out.

[reefsrule]

hey acrylicman, who has the best price for acrylic. i need a 4 x 8 sheet 1.5 thick with a 45 degree bend in the middle. and is there a difference between acrylic and cast acrylic?