Maroon-Tomato hybrid

[Luis A M]

I had never heard of such a hybrid.But a search in this forum shows that it has been reported before:http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...ghlight=hybrid

I found in a LFS this 5cm TL beautiful fish:



This fish is a perfect intermediate form between GSM Premnas biaculeatus and Tomato, Amphiprion frenatus.

The shape of the head,which is very different between the two parent species is intermediate.The eye shape and colour is more GSM.It lacks the cheek spine,which might grow when the fish matures.

Dorsal fin is two peaked as in GSM.Body profile is low.

First bar is crescent shaped,as in GSM,wide and with some yellowish-bluish shades.

The first bar is well outlined in black while the 2nd is more faded and 3rd is just a small saddle,as in a tomato juvenile.

Swimming pattern is also intermediate.

The fish was sold as a GSM,even if it looks more like a tomato that forgot to lose the stripes.Place of origin was not known,but being GSM a parent species,it must be Sumatra or Borneo.

[Luis A M]

Pics didn´t make it.Try again.You can check them at my gallery if it fails again.

[HookedOnReefing]

Good find! Did you take the pic at the LFS or do you own her now?

[Genin]

beautiful!

[showjet98]

I want one, what a cool find

[LargeAngels]

How does that fish compare to the possible thiellie you got?

[showjet98]

and why do all the really unusual clowns find there way all the way down to Argentina and not LAX?

[Luis A M]

Originally posted by showjet98
and why do all the really unusual clowns find there way all the way down to Argentina and not LAX?

Dunno,guess the exporter shipping here is shortsighted
This fish is very nice and showy but somehow it escaped being detected by all the people who saw it before I bought it:collector,export wholesaler,importer,store owner and all people passing by before me.If this fish,or the barred thielli were detected,it would be sold for several thousand dollars (yens actually )and would never be shipped to America (North or South).
I am a breeder more than a freak collector and expect in due time to try to breed these hybrids.I expect them to be fertile though not much is known so far about that.Problem is that chances to find hybrids of the same parent stock are faint,so one of the parent species must be employed.

[willowtree_1987]

I think that is just simply gorgious

[818]

someone on here i beleiv had a diary of their tomato and ocellaris spawningand he raised the fry -Sam

[spawner]

I have a feeling that is a Maritech hybrid clown. You might want to email them to see. They are into muts. http://www.proaquatix.com/index.asp

[Atticus]

That thing is awesome. I might need to try to recreate those. What are the odds on it being a wild specimen?

[Luis A M]

Originally posted by Atticus
That thing is awesome. I might need to try to recreate those. What are the odds on it being a wild specimen?

100%.This fish is WC and shipped from the Far East.

I wouldn´t purposely hybridize fish,but I will try to breed it when it matures.Prospective partner would be a frenatus.If they do reproduce,after some back-crosses,a banded tomato strain could result.

[Atticus]

You could also mate it with a maroon and try to bring the cheek spine in.

[spawner]

Luis,

Do you know of any reports of clowns hybrid in the wild? I could be something other than a hybrid.

[Dan]

How about A. chagosensis? (Just trying to stir things up......again)

Dan

[showjet98]

looks nothing like A. Chagosensis

[phender]

Originally posted by showjet98
looks nothing like A. Chagosensis

I think was responding to to "any hybrids in the wild" question.

There are plenty of hybrids in the wild. White caps for sure are hybrids, probably thiellei and chagosensis seems likely as well(which means they shouldn't have species names). There are probably others as well that just aren't as obvious, like chrysopterus x clarkii, and chrysopterus x akindynos (I've seen pics of both these combos in the wild.)

Since maroons and frenatus share the same taste in anemones and occupy the same range, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to think that they may have paired up somewhere.

[Luis A M]

Hybridization,even if we don´t like it,provides a very valuable aproach to understand the "genetic distances"that separete related species.Two species that hybridize show that they are related,and if the offspring is fertile,this relationship is even closer.
But species have different mechanisms to avoid indiscriminate hybridization or else they would dissapear melting into a new species.These mechanisms sometimes are geographical barriers,(species don´t share the same habitat)or if they exist in the same area they don´t feel atracted to mate with the other species.
This happens under natural conditions.But in captivity,some of these mechanisms don´t work as we can put together fish of different regions of the world and don´t give them chance to choose the right partner.
Now regarding clownfish,Phender has pointed at a very true and important fact to understand natural hybridization:both species have to host in the same anemone if they are to cross-mate.While this sounds obvious,it means that two very related species inhabiting the same area won´t hybridize if they don´t host in the same anemone species.This is why there are no natural hybrids of ocellaris/percula (different areas)nor biaculeatus/ocellaris or percula (different anemone),and yet these crosses could be readily achieved in captivity.
This is the case with my hybrid fish.Both parent species are restricted to only one and the same anemone species in the wild:E.quadricolor.
Because of the close relationship of clownfish with anemones,it is conceivable that two fish of different species who passed all their lives sharing their anemone and never seeing a conspecific fish,will be prone to cross-mate as it happens in captivity.
To check further this theory,I checked the host anemone of the proposed parent species of leukocranos (chrysogaster and sandaracinos)and thiellei (ocellaris and sandaracinos)and in both cases,they share a common anemone.

[ScubaBermuda]

my goodness, that thing is beautiful. Best of both worlds huh!!!
I would be very interested in seeing how yo may be able to breed them. Keep us posted.

[spawner]

Luis,

Has anyone every documented different speices of clowns living in the same anemones or mating in the wild?

[Luis A M]

Andy,there are records of mixed pairs found in the wild.and yes,very big anemones can harbor two different species,a breeding pair or group of each one.

[Opcn]

why do you say its a maroon/tomato hybrid, could it be say a tricinctus/frenatus hybrid, or just a tricinctus thats hypomelanastic?

[Luis A M]

It´s pretty obvious,see the pics and my descrition again The fish is a perfect intermediate between the two spp.I thought it was clear enough for people interested in clowns.I don´t see any character of tricinctus in this fish.Besides tricinctus is endemic of the Marshall Islands,far from GSM´s area and very far from frenatus