The "How to go Barebottom thread."

[SeanT]

Going Barebottom 101.

After many hints in threads and PM’s asking, here is my take on going how to go barebottom.

As PUGroyale pointed out:

Originally posted by PUGroyale
I fought the BB nitrate battle too... and lost I think it's a good way to run a tank... it just requires an extremely well though out and effective system, or it will fail. Maybe you guys who are so successful at it could start a really detailed thread on setting up a BB system. I found a lot of cheerleaders for BB and very few coaches

So I have decided to share my experience and experiences on the way I perceive to be the safest (not necessarily easiest) way to go barebottom.

Instead of pointing out flaws or good points in any single way of converting I will break down the situation in how I feel is the safest way to do it.
There are MANY ways to skin a cat, I prefer starting at the tail and…

Please feel free to chime in and correct any perceived mistakes.

First thing you need is the commitment to go all the way.
Second, is the realization that unless you have a powerful skimmer and good flow already you will need to purchase that equipment.


The reasoning behind having powerful flow in a barebottom tank is simple. You can.
LOL Seriously, it is to make it possible for your circulation to be strong enough to lift detritus off the bottom of the tank -> over your overflows -> and to your skimmer.

It is what I like to call the “Poop Loop�
(This is a copyrighted term. )

These are pretty necessary equipment upgrades that need to be done.
If you are not going to upgrade your equipment and are just going to let the things rot and break down in your tank you are MUCH better off keeping a DSB.
After all, that is what the DSB is for.

Two other nice to have (but not needed drastically) pieces of equipment are an ozone generator and/or UV sterilizer (both should be rated for your system.
I have both and like it that way.
Either is fine, but if you get an ozone generator I highly recommend you purchase an ORP monitor with probe, or better yet an ORP controller with probe (though I do not feel the controller is totally necessary).

The last items I would suggest to have before the conversion is started are as follows (I may miss a few):
1. ¾� or 1� PVC pipe with a handful of “T� and 90 degree fittings, zip ties and a drill. And a sheet of egg crate (light diffuser). These supplies are to make coral racks with. (Remember, this is how I suggest it to be done only J ). The coral racks should be built and set aside long before anything is done to the tank in regards to removing rock, sand, corals. If you have a larger tank with braces, make smaller racks instead of one large one. Easier to fit into the tank. I would also suggest not making them too tall. Leave 10�-12� from the water’s surface to the top of the rack.
2. Airline tubing, I like the ¾� ID as it gets good flow through it. This will be used to remove sand AND later on, detritus.
3. Starboard or similar type material to line the bottom of your tank. Now this is not a necessity either but it does offer protection against landslides. If you do choose to use Starboard, remember to have it cut so it does NOT sit up on the silicone bead inside your tank. You want that sucka’ to lay flat. Better to cut it, or have it cut, a little smaller than larger. A little smaller is actually beneficial as detritus tends to accumulate in those spots ands makes for easy siphoning. Also, if you have a larger tank with braces from front to back, have them cut it into two pieces so you can fit it in. Whether you choose to buy this (it isn’t cheap but it isn’t expensive either) or not, do not use Lexan, plexiglass, acrylic or any other clear material for several reasons. 1. It warps and detritus WILL get under it. 2. It is transparent. Now you have detritus and algae “under glass�. Nasty thick, wafer like algae or whatever it is will grow under there becoming a larger and larger nutrient sink. I know this from experience. The Starboard does not need to be purchased at this stage. It can be gotten later, before your rock is to be put back in the tank.
4. Filter socks. Once again, not necessary but I feel that in the beginning stages of a BB tank, when shedding is still taking place, they can catch a lot of crud that ends up in the sump. Most reefers do not have an elevated sump (glancing at Bomber) so it is not that easy to siphon. These do, however, need to be changed at least every third day and cleaned thoroughly. I use my washing machine and bleach. Double rinse, hang dry. Others soak in a bleach bucket with water and hang dry. Still, others just blast them with a garden hose and hang dry. Your choice.
5. A nice coralline algae scraper. Your tank is going to be virtually empty so take this opportunity to get those hard to reach spots that have been nagging you into your reefing nightmares. I use the handheld paint scrapers from Lowe’s. They cost under $2 and work a thousand times better than anything Kent ever made. Just remove the blade and rinse under tap water and pat dry when you are done or the blades will rust up rather quickly.
6. A few Rubbermaid totes (enough to hold your rock).
7. A couple of clean and sturdy plastic dustpans. They are awesome at removing sand.
8. A few friends who are obsessed like you, owe you big time, or really have nothing better to do.


Ok, we have our supplies so it is on to the show.
The problem that PUGroyale and many others have had after converting to BB is elevated nitrates.
I believe this is due partly to not having flow and skimmer setups needed for a BB tank and largely to putting their “dirty� rock back in their tank after scooping the sand out.
The same rock, back in the same system without the parachute of the sandbed to absorb some of it will lead to elevated levels.

The way to prevent this is to clean your rocks.
How? I thought you would never ask…by cooking them of course.
Calm down, no heat or ovens are involved in this process; it is just a slang term for letting them sit in the dark (oversimplification). It takes dedication and some work but man oh man the rewards are worth it.
Here is cooking rocks in a nutshell followed by two really good threads.
It is an old quote from a thread awhile back, I have cleaned it up a bit to better suit this thread.

Originally posted by SeanT
The purpose of "cooking" your rocks is to have the bacteria consume all (or as much) organic material and PO4 stored on, and in, the rock as possible.

The first step to this is commitment.
You have to be willing to remove your rock from the tank.
It doesn't have to be all at once, but I feel if you are going to do this do it all. In stages if that is easier but make sure that all of it gets done.

The new environment you are creating for your rock is to take it from an algal driven to a bacterial driven system.
In order to do this, the rock needs to be in total darkness to retard and eventually kill the algae's on the rock and to give the bacteria time to do the job.

So basically you need tubs to hold the rock.

Equipment needed.
1. Dedication.
2. Tubs to cook rock in. And an equal amount of tubs to hold the rock during waterchanges.
3. A few powerheads.
4. Plenty of buckets.
5. A smug feeling of superiority that you are taking it to "the next level."
6. Saltwater, enough made up to follow the instructions below and to replenish your tank after removing rocks.
Here are the steps:

1. Get into your head and accept the fact you will be making lots of salt water if you aren't lucky enough to have access to filtered NSW.
2. Explain to significant other what is going on so they don't flip out. This process can take up to 2 months. Prepare them in advance so he/she can mark it on the calendar and that they won't nag about it until that date arrives.
3. Setup a tub(s) where the rock is to be cooked. Garages are great for this.
4. Make up enough water to fill tub(s) about halfway and around 5-7 buckets about 60% full.
5. Remove all the rock you want to cook at this stage. (The rock can be removed piece by piece until you are done.) I suggest shutting off the circulation beforehand to minimize dust storms.
6. Take the first piece of rock and dunk it, swish it, very, very well in the first bucket. Then do it again in the 2nd bucket, then the third.
7. Place rock in the tub.
8. Repeat steps 6 & 7 to every piece of rock you want to cook at this time. The reason I suggested 5-7 buckets of water will be evident quickly...as the water quickly turns brown.
9. Place powerhead(s) in the tub and plug in. Position at least one powerhead so that it agitates the surface of the water pretty well. This is to keep the water oxygenated. You can use an air pump for additional oxygenation if you wish. Only one powerhead per tub is needed. Remember the powerheads main responsibility is the oxygenation of the water.
10. Cover the tub. Remember, we want TOTAL darkness.
11. Empty out buckets, restart circulation on main tank.
12. Wait.
13. During the first couple of weeks it is recommended to do a swishing and dunking of the rocks twice a week.
What this entails is to make up enough water to fill up those buckets and the tub the rock is in.
First, lay out your empty tub(s) and fill buckets the same as before.
Then, uncover tub with the rock in it. Take a rock and swish it in the tub it's in to knock any easy to get off junk.
Then, swish it thru the 3 buckets again, and place in the empty tub..
Repeat for all your rocks.
Then empty the tub that all the rocks were cooking in, take it outside and rinse it out with a hose.
Place tub back where it was, fill with new saltwater, add rocks and powerheads, and cover.
Wait again until the next water change.
You will be utterly amazed at how much sand, silt, detritus is at the bottom of the tub and every bucket. It is amazing.
At times the stench was so strong I gagged.

How it works:

Some FAQ's.
When re-introducing the rock to my tank, a month or two from now, should I do that in parts to help minimize any cycling effect(s)...if there are any?
I never have. Really after a very short while, the ammonium cycle has been established. That's not what you're worry about though, it's the stored phosphates and that you have to wait it out.
When they are producing very little detritus - you'll know - then I would use them all at once.

Would running Carbon filtration and/or a PO4 reducing media help/hurry/hinder the process?
I wouldn't fool with it. You don't want the detritus to sit there long enough to rot, release water soluble P again. You want to take it out while it's still locked up in that bacterial detritus.

I would say that 85% of my exposed rock had Bryopsis (hair algae) covering it.
There isn't a single visible strand on any rocks my tank now.
Remember, the key is patience. Let this process run its course.

And a few last minute tidbits I remembered.
Your coralline will die back, recede etc.
My thoughts on this are GREAT!
Now my rock is more porous for additional pods, mysids, worms etc.
Coralline will grow back.
Throughout this process the sponges, and pods on my rock have not died off.
Every time I do a water change they are there and plentiful.

So that is “cooking rocks� the reef keeping way.
I personally believe that it is probably the single most important thing you can do to your tank.

Some good reads with tons of questions and answers:
Rock cooking thread one.
Rock cooking thread two.

I suggest cooking your rock even if you want a sandbed.

So now that is out of the way and you have your rock racks built, your Starboard ready and cut to specs (if you chose to use it), your Rubbermaid’s in place in front of your tank (on top of towels), many buckets and some airline tubing, and friends milling about, you are ready to go.

Here is how I recommend that people convert to a BB tank:
1. Have a lot of saltwater made up. I mean a LOT! You will need enough water to replace all the volume taken up by your sandbed and rocks. PLUS the additional amount to swish your rocks and store them in the containers they are to cook in. A lot of water. Get it to aerated and to temp.
2. Remove the hood from your tank after unplugging all ballasts etc.
3. Turn off all circulation to your tank let it drain to the sump you want this water.
4. Drain water into a few of the Rubbermaid’s, no more than half full at this point. If possible, I recommend a small powerhead in each container to be turned on, breaking the water’s surface to circulate and aerate the water.
5. Start removing corals. Start with the shortest one, Zo’s Ric’s, all the low-lying ones that are not attached to larger rocks, and place these corals in the container. We want these first to raise the water level in the container to lessen the air exposure time to other, taller corals. I know they can be exposed to air but the less stress the better. Remember to grab all the snails and hermits you see.
6. Once these corals are removed go for the larger ones. You may have to make some hard decisions at times. If a coral is encrusted on a large piece of rock you have to decide whether to NOT cook that rock. Personally I would chisel it off and remount it onto a clean rock. In a healthy tank it will encrust again in no time.
7. After all of the corals have been removed from your tank, it is time to siphon as much of the tank water you can into buckets. As you do this rock will be exposed to air, take this opportunity to move them into one of the empty containers. There is no need to fill these containers with water at this point. Try and siphon as much clean and not cloudy water as you can into the buckets. After all, the main selling point of a BB system is getting the dirt out. J
8. Once all the rock is out you can concentrate on catching the fish, shrimp and any leftover snails and hermits you can find. Toss them into a coral container.
9. Now the hard work begins. Sand shoveling time. Using the dustpans, and as much labor as you can get from your friends, up on stools you go. Scooping the sand into buckets, taking buckets outside to dump. I caution to not fill a bucket more than 50-60% full at a time. Wet sand is heeaaavvvyyy! *** To ease the pain of this chore, weeks out you can begin siphoning the top layers of your sand bed out during water changes.***
10. Once you have most of it out, if possible use the garden hose to refill some water back into the tank. This makes it easy to siphon the last bit on the bottom. Take this time to coralline scrape and rinse as well. Siphon out the remainder of sand, coralline scrapings and tap water. Don’t be overly concerned with a little bit of tap water that is left, but if you are, use a towel as a sponge to take it out.
11. By this step, you should have a tank that looks virtually brand new. Time to make sure your Starboard fits. So put it in. lol If it fits right…awesome. If not, jigsaw time for the corners and table saw time for the long sides.
12. Your Starboard is in place, now the coral racks. Place them in the tank to be sure they fit right. If they are too tall, cut the legs down. If you feel they are way too short, add some couplings and raise them up. *****Remember to keep an eye on the water temp your corals and fish are sitting in.*****
13. Start pouring all the water in the buckets back in the tank. Then start your return pump and add your sumps water (remember to not let your return pump run dry.) Add enough make up water to fill your tank and sump. Start your return pump and let it all start circulating and heating (cooling – if that is the case).
14. After ensuring that your tank water’s temp and salinity are the same as the containers holding your corals, fish, and inverts etc. begin placing your corals onto the racks. Whenever I remove corals en masse from my tank, I place the Rubbermaid’s left-center-middle. That way the corals get back to the same approximate lighting they are used to. If you have corals that are on the sand bed…place them on the Starboard.
15. Now that all your corals are back in the nice warm womb of your tank, start any additional circulation devices you may have: powerheads, waveboxe’s, closed loop pumps etc. For the next few minutes watch to see if any corals are not seated securely. If they aren’t adjust them. If everything seems good time to move on to the next step.
16. Put the hood back on your tank. Plug everything back in and let your light cycle commence.
17. Now the fun begins. It is time to start cooking your rock. See above lol.
18. You will know when the rock is done cooking when it no longer sheds all that crud in the cooking bins.
19. As for your main tank, welcome to the wonderful world of siphoning. Keep check of your waters parameters, especially calcium and alkalinity.
20. After a week or two you may notice some small brownish-green film algae growing on the PVC. This is natural. The PVC is leeching phosphorous. Now would be a good time to bump up your cleanup crew. Astrea and Cerith snails are an awesome choice. (See my signature line).
21. When your rock is done cooking, I recommend putting it back in 1/3rds, on top of PVC racks keeping it off of the bottom to allow flow to freely move about. Take care putting it back in. You do not have any sand to mush it into. lol Be creative. Make ledges, plateau’s, valleys, whatever you want. Drill holes thru two pieces and use zip ties to hold them secure. Steer away from the “Berlin� wall. It inhibits flow, limits coral placement, and quite frankly, it’s been done to death.
22. When putting your rock in, make up some water, heat, and salinity the same. Corals into a container with water in it, remove the racks (that is why you don’t want one long rack). Place your rock rack down, aquascape, mount your corals. Use epoxy. It holds well and can easily snap off when you want it to. But TAKE YOUR TIME and do it how you want it. Don’t settle.
23. Next week do another third and then the last the week after that.
24. Once again, you may notice a few bits of filmy like algae creep up here and there. This is a signal of an understaffed cleanup crew. Remember, you no longer have a DSB as a safety net (or to fill up and betray you – checks and balances) you are relying on mechanical means (skimmer, flow, UV, ozone and siphoning) to remove waste and organic (bacteria, inverts, fish) to process and break it down into more skimmable forms.

To reiterate some things that may have gotten lost in all that jumble I typed...or to state it for the first time, as I am getting old timer's disease I think, here are some "tips" on good husbandry techniques, BB style:

1. Siphon regularly. If you see many piles of sand/silt detrius on the bottom of your tank, it is PAST the time to siphon. It can be a pain, but you get used to it quickly, and over the course of a few months it gets less and less needed.

2. Blast your rocks regularly with a powerhead (or turkey baster-but seriously that is a LOT of pumping ; use a powerhead.) ). A good old maxi-jet will slam a lot of the detrius off your rocks and get it down to the skimmer where it belongs. This too will, overtime, yield less and less. But still do it.

3. Wet skim. Your aim is to not get the really bark skimmate. Get it a tea colored (light brown or green). The purpose of this is to get the crud out BEFORE it breaks down.
But to do this effectively, the neck of your skimmer must be wiped down regularly. I have a roll of paper towels next to my skimmer. Every couple of days I just wipe it down while still running. No need to dissassemble it and take it to the sink that often.

4. Get and KEEP up a good clean up crew. Life is short, snails die, replace them!

5. Flow, flow and more flow. Your tank does not need to look like a whirlpool. Your flow needs to be kind of powerful and WELL DIRECTED though. Make sure you can get the crud off the bottom and into the overflows or, if not, at least have your flow in such a way that it will pool your detrius for easy removal. This will take some adjustment to get rock.

6. BUILD ROCK RACKS! Man oh man does this make life easier. I used ¾� gray PVC I got at Lowe's. Most of it is already encrusted in coraline, and I like gluing Ricordia to the exposed parts. It looks good.
With rock racks, you get good flow under your rocks, especially as they continue to shed detrius.

There are more tips which I hope others will share.

I am not a marine biologist ir chemist. And to be quite honest, I do not undrstand the intricacies of a lot of the chemical reactions and biological functions that occur.
Sure, I can regurgitate what I have read as easily as the next, but I have gotten to the point where a little more of the "harder" stuff is making sense. I guess I am being educated...and my high school counselor said that couldn't be done.
My point is, though I do not quite understand the EXACT reasons why many of this happens as it does, I do know that it works.

As I said at the beginning, this is how I advocate the DSB to BB conversion. It is a safe, painstaking way. And it works.
I am not, by any means, saying BB is the only way.

So please DO NOT turn this into a BB -v- DSB thread.
They get old and boring and are a waste of time. Fuhshizzle.

I sincerely hope this has answered some questions.

hth,
Sean

[dymaxiun]

Printed, filed, and saved! Not done yet reading, but 3/4 done, and I had to stop reading becasue this is some GREAT information!

Many thanks Sean!!!

EDIT: Now I am done reading, and My 110 that is sitting in the garage has some guidelines for startup BB!

Thanks!!!!

-Eric

[SeanT]

Thanks Eric.

For ths on the fence about "cooking" your rocks (which I can not impress enough on how adamant I am that you should do this) here are some before and after pics of cooked rock.

(They are found in the first rock "cooking" link.
And they are my rocks.

BEFORE

[SeanT]

I want to add that I do NOT have ANY hair algae ANYWHERE in my tank.
And when the rocks were taken out if the tubs, they had pods and sponges still on them.
Heck, on one rock some mushrooms survived. They were the smaller than a round tac head but still there.


And the SAME rocks AFTER they are done cooking.

[catdoc]

How high do you elevate your LR on the pvc rack?

I've got about 80 lbs of LR cooking (combination of some from my display plus some I bought from another hobbyist). After the last water change on the rock, I kept the waste water and dumped in some dead/dry base rock along with one 10 lb hunk of LR. How long would you anticipate it'll take this base rock to seed/cook??

My 90 is bb and I do like being able to see the detritus and get it OUT of there, still battling some hair algae though (not enough flow + rock wasn't cooked). I'm preparing to set up my 125 in the very very near future and planning to improve the flow and add a sump/bigger skimmer. I also learned the hard way how important it is not to have the starboard resting on the silicone seam--have a slow leak now which is the reason for the upgrade to the 125 tank.

[PUGroyale]

This is just the kind of comprehensive guide a lot of folks could use Thanks for taking the time and effort to put it together! If it saves just one person the headaches I encountered it was well worth the effort. Oh... and thanks for making me the posterboy for BB failure

[Bomber]

Great thread Sean and much needed.

Originally posted by PUGroyale
and thanks for making me the posterboy for BB failure

LOL but how about if we make you the poster boy for tank success!
After going through all that, you found a way that works for you.

[Weatherman]

Originally posted by SeanT
For ths on the fence about "cooking" your rocks (which I can not impress enough on how adamant I am that you should do this) here are some before and after pics of cooked rock.

I couldn’t agree more.

If you chose not to cook your rock, but, instead, just put it back into your tank after you remove your sand, you will have the dubious honor of watching debris fly around your tank for the next four months as your rocks shed.

And, they will shed…

Just like a Persian cat on a hot summer afternoon.

[G-money]

Nicely done, Sean!
A very well thought out step-by-step formula for a nutrient-poor tank...
which is exactly what folks can expect if they adhere to "the method".
Definitely one for the archives...I'm glad you took the time.

[slovan]

Great read. Thanks Sean!

I thought I was ready to convert to bb but I guess not. I'm going to upgrade some equipment first before I do it.

[easttn]

Sean,
You (and a split tank) are the reasons I joined the crowd. Thanks for all the thought you put into this for others, very helpful and timely.

[wastememphis]

Gold in information form, thanks Sean!

[ITR]

Sean T,

Thanks for making me waste my time on this:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...20#post5525320

If you got off your arse sooner, I wouldn't have carpal tunnel.

Good info. You answered alot of my questions.

Jay

[dascharisma]

I recently moved to a new house and moved my tank too. After watching the crud pour out of my rock and digging up my nasty sand bed I finally saw first hand what all the bare bottom hubub was about. I moved my corals to a seperate, established system and now have the perfect opportunity to go bare bottom. Having a detailed and thoughtfull thread like this is going to make my life a lot easier.

I want to take this opportunity to say thank you for the time and effort you have put into helping me and others looking to gain more control over our tanks. When people talk about the greatness of RC, this is exactly the sort of thread they are talking about. Well done.

[SmartWrasse]

Thanks for the detailed write up Sean. Sounds like a good plan to follow. I was very resistant to the cooking idea, but you guys now have me convinced. Easy is not always best, and I don't want to do the tear downs any more often than I need. So how much is this going to stink up my house?

[SeanT]

Hey guys,
Thanks for the...thanks.
It was my pleasure,
Sean

[SeanT]

Originally posted by catdoc
How high do you elevate your LR on the pvc rack?

Basically, all I did was create a simple base for my rock to sit on.
It looks like a tic tac toe board from the top, with a few PVC "T"'s placed about to be the feet.
Then I drilled, zip-tied and epoxied rock how I wanted it.
There are many elaborate rock racks that people use and even some you can buy.
I like mine ok though. If I ever upgrade or move I may play around with other ways to build racks or buy one of the kits (they are pretty cheap) just to get some ideas.

Originally posted by catdoc
How long would you anticipate it'll take this base rock to seed/cook??

As I said, I am not a biologist, I am a phrenologist.
But I beleive that bacteria split approx. every 30 minutes.
Someone like Bomber, or another knowledgeable reefer on that subject, can confirm that or give the correct amount of time.
Either way, the bacteria will be on your rock pretty quickly.
I would "cook" it for two weeks or so, for sure, to see if it begins to shed, if it sheds detritus then keep :cooking" until it stops.

hth,
Sean

[Konadog]

Nice work Sean!

You even had it posted before I could finish the drive home, well, in LA, my kids could graduate before I get home some days.

[Konadog]

Originally posted by SeanT
Please feel free to chime in and correct any perceived mistakes.

OK, just a few things:

#5. A nice coralline algae scraper. This assumes that you have a glass tank, acrylic beware - no razor blades!


#21. When your rock is done cooking, I recommend putting it back in 1/3rds, on top of PVC racks keeping it off of the bottom to allow flow to freely move about. Take care putting it back in. You do not have any sand to mush it into. lol Be creative. Make ledges, plateau’s, valleys, whatever you want. Drill holes thru two pieces and use zip ties to hold them secure. Steer away from the “Berlin� wall. It inhibits flow, limits coral placement, and quite frankly, it’s been done to death.
Be sure to use UV rated zip ties as the simple white ones will break down over time (it may be a few years, but it will happen)


Those are the few things I have experience with, so I hope they help.

[Bryan89]

I would add if you do utilize the black UV rated zip ties, ensure that they do not contain metal as some at a well know national hardware chain do.

BTW my 400G barebottom should be up before winter.

[SeanT]

Very good points Ken.
Thanks,
Sean

[ezhoops]

Sean, great thread

one thing, could you suggest a skimmer for my 54 gal Bowfront, also do I still run a sump with this BB set up?

[ezhoops]

oh and a UV skimmer?

I plan to have two seio's along with new return pump (suggest one please) I currently have a mag 9

[VCoo71]

i would like to add keep a sharp eye on your Alk.....mine went through the roof keeping the same reactor settings i used with my old sand bed!!!!

charlie

[olkeller]

I'm wondering what is a good idea for a turnover rate for the tank so I can buy the right equipment.
How important is ozone or a uv sterilizer(who else runs one)
I hope someone answers ezhoops questions so I can get an idea if what I got planned will work If not a brand an idea for gph.

(I am breaking down the 120 and setting up a 54 corner because I need to have something smaller I am starting from scratch)