Mysis...PE, San Fransico Bay or Other?

[teenie_twin]

I went to a Reef dealer who has a shop about an hour away from my home. (sadly, yes...that is the nearest one!) Much to my dissapointment he doesn't carry the PE mysis that I've heard everyone rave about. He carried San Fransico Bay and a few others. Are they just as good or do you all endorse PE? I'f that's the top of the line, best food they can have...I'll order it online if I must, that's no big deal. Just curious. Thanks again!

Tina

[HorseoftheSea]

I like Hikari the best. They already have some vitamins added and the shrimp are generally smaller than the other brands. but I'am sure PE is good too.

[pncstod]

I am not saying there is anything wrong with Hikari, I always keep that in the freezer too. But, I think you should order the PE. Seriously, PE is hands down the best.

[pledosophy]

I like hikari personally. I'm sure PE is great. I would enrich either. If you do order PE order a bunch at a time for a volume discount and to save on shipping.

[Fredfish]

Get your LFS to carry PE. They are amazing. The shrimps are whole - i mean 99.9% intact - and there is no residual liquid when you thaw them. I have never seen a frozen food with so little waste or damage. They are quite large.

Fred

[rooster58]

Where is the best place to order the Piscine Energetics mysis? I just got 1 seahorse and don't need a whole bunch of it. Thanks.

[Fredfish]

Rooster. Is there a salt water club in your area. This may be the best place for you to find smaller quantities of things. The smallest size of PE I have found is 4 oz.

Fred

[SSweet1]

Piscine Energetics is best hands down. Check the protein amounts San Fransisco Bay is only 5% with 95% moisture P.E. is 69.5% only about 8% moisture. NUFF SAID Carrie

[Fredfish]

Gotta agree with you SSweet1. My jaw hit the floor and bounced several times the first time I thawed some PE. All mysis, no water! In my 20+ years of fishkeeping that was a first.

Fred

[DanU]

We find Hikari is great for converting fry to frozen and for juvies. Once the fry start taking the PE, they seem to grow faster with it than with the Hikari.

PE definately has bigger pieces and is typically whole shrimps.

Dan

[Fredfish]

Interesting observations Dan. Its always good to hear from a breeder. You go through so much more food than the rest of us do and there is so much more at stake.

Fred

[lori7973]

I have never used PE yet, but like the Hakari. I am now using San Francisco and it is terrible, there is so much waste and the shrimp are too big. The size is ok for my horses, but my pipes are eating frozen also and they are way too big for them to snick. Is all PE large, or can you order smaller shrimp? If you can't I am going to stick with Hakari.

[Fredfish]

The regular PE are large. I was surprised my seahorses ate them at first. PE used to package smaller ones too, but I havn't seen that form in any of the stores.

OK, just went to their web site and they list smalls (1/2 regular size). Just gotta find someone that carries the smaller size.

Fred.

[Fredfish]

Here is their web site. They list some dealers and distributors so you should be able to find someone local.

Fred

[Seahorsewisprer]

Here's the Nutritional analysis of Hikaris mysis:

Protein 10.5%
Fat 1.0%
Fiber 2.0
Moisture 85%

Here's Hikari's Krill:

Protein 11.0%
Fat 1.2%
Fiber 5.0%
Moisture 79.0%

Here's Sally Brine Shrimp:

Protein 5.02%
Fat .24%
Fiber .29%
Moisture 92.5

Here's Argent's Cyclopeeze:

Protein 63%
Fat 24%
Carbohydrate 8.5%
It also lists it's EPA: 11.4 DHA:11.09

This analysis might be a bit misleading because it is it's dry weight. So, we'll have to look at it as a ratio of protein vs fat vs carbs/fiber.

Anyone have a package of PE handy?I checked their website but couldn't find any actual numbers.

So, let's discuss what seahorses eat in the wild. Copepods? Amphopods? Tiny shrimps?

Geez, it's too bad we don't have a Copepod expert here.....someone who knows about the nutrional value of actual ocean foods.....someone who maybe has researched them a lot....

We really could get some insight here......if only some one from a research facility who knows copepods and stuff would join our discussion...

[MiddletonMark]

Piscine Energetics Mysis

Protien: 69.5%
Fat: 8.35%
Fiber: 2.75%
Ash: 5.5%

[Seahorsewisprer]

Thanks, Mark!
OK, so that must be a dry weight, too.

Mysis ratios: Protein: Fat: Carbohydrate
Hikari: 10:1:2
PE: 7:8:3

OOPS! I don't have Sallys! Anyone have a package in the freezer?

Hikari's Krill: 11:1:5
Sallys BS: 5: 0.2: 0.3
Cyclopeeze: 6 : 2: 8

Any other frozen foods we want to analyse?

I just threw cyclopeeze in here for the frybabies, 'cause I'm thinking most full sized seahorses won't chase it down. Too bad we can't supplement with it, though. Looks like it is the CHO winner!

[Seahorsewisprer]

Ok, so no Sallys & no pod expert!

Here's what I remember about cellular nutrition: The krebs cycle!!! Not really, I don't actually remember that...

Protein(amino acids) is used for building cells, right? Cells die and are replaced continually, so protein is needed. Fat (lipids, fatty acids, omega 3s) is used for cell membranes and also as a energy resource. Carbs (sugars) are also energy sources. Of course, all these building blocks are used for many other things, but.....

Looking at our numbers, PE has the highest content of fat, Hikaris krill leads in protein and carbs. Sallys brine shrimp is the around half of the protein of Hikari, but has negligible amounts of fat and carbs.

I think fat is probably pretty important to aquatic creatures, seeing how that is where we get our omega 3s! Their natural diets are high in DHA/EPA ( fatty acids?).

So, PE is the highest in fat, so by itself would that be considered the best of the ones we've analyzed?

But, if we are adding fat (enrichment products), would we be better off choosing the higher protein and carb product?

Enriched Hikari krill would be the nutritional winner, but the pieces are mostly too large for most seahorses. I use it along with mysis, but I can feed the big ones to my lion.

Enriched Hikari mysis would be the second best, and easily consumed.

Sally's BS is the least nutritious but maybe enriched, we would just have to feed twice as much!

PE's website says it is better because it is a freshwater organism and the fish that eat it don't have to "process" the sodium! Interesting marketing?

Hikari says it adds "bioencapsulated" vitamins to their products. I have to think about that one, because when I think of Vit B, I think of bread! I don't know if they need it, but I don't think it would hurt..

Anybody know any other reasons why one product is better than another? I'm just analyzing the labels of these products.

[Flipturn88]

Very interesting info. It's amazing how much you can learn by just doing a little bit of reasearch.

I have used both Hikari and San Fransisco brands. From my experience, Hikari is higher quality, but the shrimp are too small for my picky horses. SF has generally larger shrimp, but honestly I can tell the quality isn't great--so much water, shrimps usually not whole, many excess particles, etc. I hope to try PE next, as it sounds like the perfect ratio.

Thanks for the info,
Kayla

[leeko]

My seahorses will not eat the SFB frozen mysis, they will only eat Hikari. The quality of the SFB was not that good, but the moochies that reside in our reef tank love it!

[rkl303]

At my local reef club meeting today I overheard someone saying the difference between PE and regular mysis is one is a freshwater varient while the other isn't. I remember him saying one contains more HUFA's and one type of mysis has a softer shell which certain fish perfer. Not sure which has more HUFA and which has a softer shell but this is just what I overheard. He went with the PE mysis recommendation though.

[Seahorsewisprer]

PE is the freshwater mysis and they promote that on their site.

"As fish don't need to eliminate excess salt, it's easier on their systems. "

I don't know...I think marine fish probably are pretty good at keeping their sodium levels pretty even steven....I wonder if that's a marketing ploy!

OK, so PUFA is Poly Unsaturated Fatty Acids so I'm going to guess the HUFA is Highly Unsaturate Fatty Acids, which are the omega 3s that our docs keep telling us to eat. So, I wonder if our enrichments make them not as neccessary as in the mysis itself? But, not enriched, PE is a higher fat content, so that might be worth the trouble to find it. Would the higher fat content make enriching unneccessary?

I think if you can get the PE, they are larger mysis and might make feeding more convienient.

But, if your fish will eat the enriched Hikari, it might be more nutritious. And, for those of us who have a hard time finding PE, Hikari might be more accessible. It is for me. I can get Hikari at any LFS I go to....

And, then, my fish get those wonderful bioencapsulated vitamins!

[Seahorsewisprer]

Hey, wait! What if we could get OR or Hikari or Kent to enrich them for us?! Maybe Pete could talk 'em into adding some betaglucan!!

How about it, Mr G? I would soooo buy pre-enriched mysis!

[LisaD]

I'm just echoing a lot of what has already been said... I prefer PE. It seems to be more nutrition-dense than other brands, maybe it has less water in it. It also has a high proportion of whole mysis. In my experience, it keeps the weight on seahorses better than any other brand I have tried so far. Hikari is a distant second in my estimation, but I also feed it in case there are any nutritional differences, in order to offer some variety. I think the Ocean Rider web site also recommends PE, and most of the experienced seahorse people I know (though not all) prefer it.

BTW, I believe Hikari is already enriched, though not with Beta-glucan.

[Seahorsewisprer]

It's "Bio-encapsulated"!

Marketing stuff makes me laugh!