closed loop on a 90AGA without drilling more holes

[fish_taste_good]

I started a thread that was pretty informative here in regards to closed loops. http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=623989

However, I sort of confused myself but I see it helped others.

Anyways, onto my question:

Is it possible to build one with out drilling my 90 I just purchased? It is an AGA and has the two holes in the bottom corner overflow. I like the idea of the preimeter loops.

I see a powerful pump is needed if you run a perimieter around the tank. What if i only did it along the front part of the back with say two or three outlets. Will a 500 gph pump dropped in the sump be ok for this? Or should I wait until I have the funds for a higher rated external one?

Thanks,

Alan

[Steven Pro]

Here is an example of a closed loop without drilling any holes,
http://www.melevsreef.com/closedloop.html

[fish_taste_good]

wow - thats pretty sharp. I guess I am going to have to learn how to work with PVC now.

What type of glue should be used for PVC so that it is reef safe? I am not sure if there is any that is.

Thanks for that link BTW.

[Steven Pro]

Standard PVC primer and cement are fine. Just let the connections cure for 24 hours before running the tank water through them.

[fish_taste_good]

ok - thanks for the heads up.

Do you have this setup or is it something you had a link saved for?

I ask this, because I am going to build one and I am thinking of tossing it into my 90 AGA overflow. I dont see why this wouldnt work, but i could not be thinking of something.

The only problem i can forsee is airbubbles, but from my understanding, there isnt much waterfall in the overflow. I would like to try to keep the main piece out of the main tank. I would think that it would be something snails could get sucked up into.

Any comments?

[moumda]

I installed mine in a corner of the tank with black pvc (actually sewer pipe, new not used). It didn't take very long and it was covered with coraline and hardly noticable. If you put it in your overflow baox you'll be limited on the size pump you can use by the capacity of the teeth (openings) on your overflow box. JMO.

[Steven Pro]

Originally posted by fish_taste_good
Do you have this setup or is it something you had a link saved for?

I just had the link handy.

[fish_taste_good]

I am going to try the intake into overflow and see what happens when I test fill the tank with freshwater.

It seems like it would work, but I do understand that it could present a problem. Both the pumps (return and loop) are around the same size GPH wise.

Side question: If a pump has been used internally for quite sometime, will it harm it to plumb it as an external pump?

[WarEagleNR88]

What pumps were you thinking of using?

I just recently finished a closed loop on my tank using a Mag 18 and it really does a nice job in adding a lot of flow into the tank. Plus it doesn't get very warm at all. I guess it's due to just a few feet of loop (<4').

Only problem though was it sat in my sump for a few months and now that I have it external, it's picking up some air from somewhere on the intake side and filling the tank with microbubbles. The impeller housing might have a small crack in it and need replacing. At least that's what I hope it is, else I may have to replace the entire intake side

[WarEagleNR88]

Oh I guess I should ask this, what methods can I use to detect for air intake leaks? It's always much easier to fix something if you know what's broken.

Thanks!

[fish_taste_good]

As far as the air leak detection goes, good luck. I would think it would be in the plumbing and not the pump.

I have a little giant external pump that I will be using for the return and a sedra 5000 that I plan on using for the loop. It is basically a mag 5 or 6. its roughly 500 gph i think.

The sedra is the pump that has been used internally for quite some time. It is currently my return pump on my 55 and provides great flow. I would like to keep it out of the sump now.

[BRETT FULFORD]

fish_taste_good - please post how this works (putting the intake in your overflow box)
i'm thinking of doing the same with my 120. i have a 1200gph for the sump and was thinking of adding about 1100gph as a closed loop

[fish_taste_good]

BRETT FULFORD - I would do that, but after constructing my durso and having the return in there, I no longer have the space needed to add the intake to it.

Here is a link to what I built as opposed to going the closed loop route:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...light=spraybar

So far, after installing it (keep in mind I have no water in the tank yet) it looks great and I can hardly see it.

[BRETT FULFORD]

sorry f.t.g - i'm a little confused does the water from the overflow go to a sump and then returned via spraybar?

[billpa]

I built a closed loop with the intake tubes as melev describes in that link above. It works great! I spent a little more money and used quick disconnect plugs for the priming caps like these:

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/...ories/ssid/346

These fittings are the best thing since sliced bread! I used a male cap and a female threaded fitting so I can quickly prime the closed loop plumbing. It beats the heck out of unscrewing a PVC cap everytime and having to reapply teflon tape. I ended up going with two intake tubes (1.5") to reduce the power of the suction as my tank houses a porky puffer and they are prone to getting stuck on powerheads (high suction areas). With two intakes and a bunch of holes in each, you cant even feel the suction when you grab one.

The closed loop is powered by an Ampmaster 3600 which pushes around 3000 gph. Its output goes to an OceansMotions four way which diverts flow between two large static outputs (1.5") and two Calfo-type manifolds...one for each side of the tank.

Im really glad that I was able to add a closed loop to my system without having to drill the tank. It has worked flawlessly except for the occasional microbubble spurt. I realized that when repriming you can get some trapped air in your plumbing. Running the closed loop pump for a few minutes, then turning it off for a few minutes, and then turning it back on is all I have to do to purge the remaining air bubbles.

If you need some more help designing one, lmk.

HTH,
billpa

[BRETT FULFORD]

billpa - do you have any pics of your system?

[billpa]

I have some old photos I can grab. I really have to take some new ones but my digi cam broke a couple of weeks ago. Here is my album when I was doing plumbing:

http://photobucket.com/albums/v206/b...Electric/?sc=3

It has changed a little bit but not much. A few of the photos you will be able to see the intake tubes hanging off the back of the tank. They are the ones with the pvc caps (which I later changed to the quick disconnects...much better!) You can also see a photo of what the intakes look like as well as the manifold which was later cut down into two seperate manifolds on account that I made it with PVC that was too small and was losing a lot of head. When I got the 4way, I was able to make two seperate manifolds with less outputs that provide flow to each side of the tank.

HTH
billpa

[fish_taste_good]

BRETT FULFORD - Yep. That spray bar works as my return. Water goes down overflow, through sump, and backup through the spray bar.

It works like a champ so far on my test fill in my garage with freshwater.

I drilled a few holes pointing towards the front, some down, some at an angle. I am going to try and add food coloring to it or something else to see where the dead spots are.

[fish_taste_good]

billpa - nice. I like that, alot. Very Clean.

[billpa]

Thanks FTG. It works for now There are a few things that I would change in hindsight but this is my first splurge into a larger tank. Im hoping down the road when a larger home is in order, I will have a complete plan to work with for a new setup. I kind of shot from the hip with this tank. But I am definitely enjoying it!

-billpa

[Tomzpc]

You really don't even need a priming cap/tee. When I put mine together last year I just pumped water in through the outlet using a powerhead. This flushed the air out of the pump and loop and primed it. I haven't had to touch it since.

[billpa]

True...you dont really need a priming cap. For my setup it makes it easier though. And the only time you will have to refill is if you have to drain the pipes to pull your CL pump out for cleaning or service. In my case, I use my CL pump for waterchanges...basically sucking water out of my tank into a drain and then another pump that I turn on to replace the drained tank water. When filling the tank back up, I just pull off the priming cap and push the tubing down into it. Eventually I will get to putting a tee and a ball valve in with a permanent connection to my saltwater reservoir.

billpa

[Tomzpc]

Originally posted by billpa
True...you dont really need a priming cap. For my setup it makes it easier though. And the only time you will have to refill is if you have to drain the pipes to pull your CL pump out for cleaning or service.

Not even then. I have ball valves on before the unions on the pumps inlet and outlet. Just shut the valves and the loop stays primed.

[WarEagleNR88]

nice!... good looking bar