new tank setup w/ manifold....pic intensive

[_-Nebuli-_]

These are preliminary pictures of my tank, couldnt wait to post to get input (positive/negative) on what i have so far. there are some other things planned like shaving down the right overflow box to allow more water to go over so it wont gurgle so much...hopefully this will work, if not i thought about drilling a hole in the elbows at the top of the return and put a piece of rigid airline to allow air to come in that way to quiet it down. also due to some water splashing out of the front and back of the sump, hence the reason for the towels. i plan on adding a 10 inch tall acrylic "rim" around the front and back side of the sump with supports across the middle to keep the water in and to also to serve as a brace for a 65w screwin PC fixture for a fuge light. also going to shorten the length of pipes between the bulkheads on the rubbermaid and the elbows going to sump return to allow more room there, also considering adding 1" bulkheads to the rubbermaid instead of the 3/4" which is in place now. another thing being changed is the return nozzle, as soon as i get a screwin adapter it will have some 3/4" loc-line attached to it with a "Y" connector and 2 3/4" flared nozzles, which will hopefully distribute the flow better and allow me to keep sand in the front of my tank....=)

the tank itself is a custom built flat back hex with the dimensions of 30" long (at the back) X 18" wide X 21" tall (havent figured up actual gallons yet....hasnt really crossed my mind until now) it sits on a 36" tall stand with a full plank canopy housing a 250w 14k hamilton halide. sitting underneith is a 15gal sump skimmed with a E.T.S.S. Reef Devil powered by the included pump. Return is via a MAG 9.5 slightly tuned back to keep the water from overflowing the rubbermaid...im in the market for a new tub that is taller than the one i have now, but havent been able to find one yet. the return comes back directly in the middle of the tank. the closed loop is powered by a MAG 12 going to a 1/2" manifold. i plan on possibly changing this to 1 1/2" directly from the pump to a 3/4" manifold with 1/2" T's. i think i will get better flow that way.
i decided to run the manifold above the tank instead of under the rim for 2 reasons. 1) so i wouldnt have to cut into the overflow boxes, and 2) so i can maintain the flexibility of the loc-line with the extra piece between the screw in MPT connector and the flared nozzles. and not have so much pipe within the viewing area of the tank. this is one of the main ideas of the manifold after all to remove the clutter from the tank. for my own personal thoughts on the matter i decided it would be better for me to run it above the tank. i just couldnt get the "directability" (if thats a word) of the nozzles without the extra piece in the middle.

im open for criticism and expect it with great enthusiasm.

thanks for viewing
Tre'

[Parotkilah2]

Don't let these pictures fool you, this tank is gorgeous. good work Tre'.

brandon

[jay2525]

I think your tank looks pretty nice and well thought out. I like your manifold. I intended on doing something very similar myself. hows the flow?

[_-Nebuli-_]

haha, thanks brandon.

the flow is great, before the rock was in there i put some fish food in to test the flow and it floated around the tank for quite a while never really touching the bottom and staying suspended, until is got sucked down to the sump....no clue where it is at the moment. so the distribution is great, time will only tell if its adequate enough for SPS, i think it will be though.

thanks,
Tre'

[Anthony Calfo]

very tidy and well constructed. Kudos to you for your efforts. And thank you for sharing pics.

My one critique/concern at a glance is that there does not appear to be any convenient plumbing in case/need of servicing the pump. It looks like the pump is literally just plumbed through the wall of the aquarium. When the pump needs serviced (periodic cleaning, restarting, replacing, etc.) it is in an awkward position for service. You'll have to plug the intake from the inside (assuming corals haven't grown large enough or in the way... stonies at risk of breaking, etc as you try to get a plug down there.

Instead... when plumbing pumps through walls (display, sump, refugium, whatever...) below a running water level, it is helpful/better to use a valve (ball valve is usually fine here... and slip unions (for fast disconnect and service/swapping of pumps).

Thus... the plumbing sequence should be (starting from inside the tank):

aquarium wall---->bulkhead--->shut-off-valve--->slip union--->pump--->slip union--->flow control valve--->destination

Hmmm... I'm not sure if I'm describing this well. It's late and I'm a bit fatigued

[Anthony Calfo]

oooh... and very nice job on the skimmer installation too, BTW!

Have you run it long enough this way (concentrated direct feed/skimmer well) to see any improvement over previous installations?

kindly, Anthony

[_-Nebuli-_]

just set up so i couldnt give you a definitive answer as to whether or not its any better than just in sump. also the skimmer is still in the "break-in" period so i havent played with it very much. the rock that is in there has been in a rubbermaid with powerheads and a heater for the past 3 or 4 weeks so its fairly well cycled and i dont know how much dieoff is in there. im half tempted to put some melafix in the tank to give the ole "what the hell" try and see what it does. more than likely ill leave it alone and play with it later.

thanks for the advice with the closed loop pump. when i replumb it i will have to do that....if space permits. i thought about that issue on the return pump, i dont know why it never crossed my mind with the closed loop. i think i may have an issue with the space requirements for all that plumbing before the pump....otherwise things might get PVC crazy back there.

thanks again for the input
Tre'

[Anthony Calfo]

no worries... you have room my friend. Install the fittings on the lines that run parallel to the tank, not perpendicular.

It will be a lifesaver too if the pump ever leaks. In the future, you may want to drill the intake for such closed loop pumps higher in the tank as a better failsafe.

best regards

Anthony

[_-Nebuli-_]

i may have to swap the pump to the other side to allow enough room for a ball valve and a union before the intake of the pump. coming from the inside of the tank there is the bulkhead => an elbow => then the pump. the pump intake is nearly touching the elbow, which is snugly butted up against the bulkhead. if i move the pump to the left side of the aquarium i will have room....all thats needed would be to cut the closed loop, add some couplings to where the "T" used to be and install the "T" on the other side of the closed loop....that would allow me the room to install the ball valve and union.

ill go snap a picture to show you what i mean by limited space.

[Anthony Calfo]

agreed, my friend.. I see your limited distance off the wall (tis the reason for avoiding the perpendicular line with elbow).

It will be fine to go bulkhead-->elbow-->shut-off valve-->slip union-->pump-->slip union-->control valve-->destination

sacrifice/replace the elbow if needed... and ball valves can be used in both places flanking the pump (I like/use gate valves for outflow though).

[_-Nebuli-_]

hahaha, if you only know the trouble ive gone through this past week to find gate valves....i am quite certain that they do not exist where i live. if i do find one, ill make sure ill snap a picture of it cause im sure big foot will be holding it while riding shot gun with elvis.

yeah, i dont want this to become a major issue later so i think i will go ahead and replumb it this weekend when i have time. i will probably also go ahead and plumb 1 1/2" pipe going to the return and redo the manifold with 3/4" pipe with 1/2" nozzles and see how the flow turns out. i think i remember reading somewhere that MAGS were designed to push 1 1/2" pipe hence the rational for changing the size....it also sounds like the pump is straining or something....maybe its just loud. ill find out when i redo it either way....besides....its just pvc....=)

Tre'

[Anthony Calfo]

heehee... exactly my friend! Its best to take care of these things early... and indeed 'its just pvc'. Really quite wonderful how cheap it is that experimenting with various plumbing endeavors is cheap enough

As for gate valves... have you looked on the reeeeeeally high shelves at Home Depot? They do stock a couple sizes of gate valves (I have seen them in several cities/states beside my own). But if local is not available... no worries, any of a number of places can ship you one with a good 'ol google search

[wonk]

I learned a lot from my first return manifold:

(1) don't glue the pipe!!! any problems later down the road may require taking the manifold apart at some junction to unclog, etc. The pressue isn't enough to cause problems if they are just pressure fit together.

(2) oversize the pipe. I did 1/2" branched of of 1" return. Too restrictive of flow. need 3/4" branched.

(3) It's tough to get the holes the right size to make the manifold more or less equal pressure release through it's lenght. My holes are too big and thus most all of the water dumps through 4 of the 12 holes. almost no pressure out of the farthest downstream holes. this also causes even more resistence over time as the low flow parts of the pipe tend to build up sediment.

(4) schedule 40 pvc or black pvc. better yet: flex black pvc if you can find it. white it annoying to me.

[_-Nebuli-_]

ill have to try the google search, or maybe i can ebay some....get some extras and hold on to them for other hobiest that may need them locally down the road.

wonk, i dont know if it has anything to do with it, but my manifold only has 6 outlets and the flow is, from the best i can tell by putting my hand in front of it, extremely uniform, i was actually a bit surprised because a friend of mine built one and his is like yours, extremly powerful out of a couple and dwindles down to a trickle on the rest.

thanks for your input though, im definately going to redo the manifold this weekend to larger size piping, both on the manifold and the return from the pump to the manifold.

thanks again,
Tre'

[_-Nebuli-_]

update....surprisingly the hole in the top of the elbow with the rigid airline (3/8") worked like a charm...slowed the actual draining process down a little but that was expected....when i redo the closed loop this weekend i will shave down the right overflow box to equalize the flow and hope it still stays quiet. so the girlfriend is happy now that it doesnt sound like an airplane toilet flushing in the living room every 30 seconds.

[shelburn61]

I like the setup and it gives me some ideas for my new tank.

I was thinking, though, that since you have a direct feed to your skimmer you might get more efficient skimming with less volume coming from the overflows. With a return rate of say 200gph or less from the sump the water going into the skimmer would have a greater concentration of proteins from the surface.

I also have a direct feed skimmer on my 30g tank and have noticed nastier foam since I replaced the mag 5 return with a maxijet 1200.

[Anthony Calfo]

we appreciate the input, shelburn61. Grazie!

[shelburn61]

Aren't you a big advocate of that theory? I was surprised you didn't mention it first, Anthony.

Would the Mag 12 provide would provide enough flow on its own?

[Jiddy]

Ive been searchin for a CL system just like this, and after walkin throu mazes with threads, i have stumbled apon this. I love the design and will tottally copy you. Im kind of lost on one part thou. I also have Mag12's to work for my CL, how big of PVC tubin should i use throughout the system?

-Jidz

[_-Nebuli-_]

I used 1" coming into the pump, and then 3/4" going up to the manifold which is 1/2". But this is going to change. Due to certain issues in my living situation i had to break the tank down, but when i set it up again, i will be using 1" from the pump to the manifold, then 3/4" manifold with 1/2" tees. i think this will help keep the noise of the pump down slightly, and i hope that it will also give me more flow. i may even go so far as to do 1 1/2" PVC from the pump to the manifold since thats what i believe the MAGS are rated for. I dont really know at this point, i will just have to play with it and see what happens....Like Anthony says....its just PVC. It cheap enought to do it several times over and still stay under 20 bucks, i didnt get into this hobby to save money, so why not spend a little. =)
I still watch this thread so i can continue to answer questions if anyone has any. good luck with you set up, be sure to post pictures after you are done. i would love to see it, as well as im sure everyone else that watches this forum would as well.

best of luck,
Tre'

[_-Nebuli-_]

While im here, ill address the sump flow concern.
The MAG 9.5 wasnt the pump that i really had in mind for this setup, but it was merely the one that i already had. So to save a few extra bucks and not have to go buy a new pump, i just used that one. it is tuned back quite a bit. i initially was going to use a MAG 7 for the return, but since the 9.5 was handy i used it. the 9.5 is tuned back to nearly half of full output. when i redo the plumbing im going to use a gate valve on it instead of a ball valve to be able to fine tune it a little better. i was also thinking about putting a T in the line just below the gate valve with a piece of pipe running back over into the fuge area to try and relieve some of the back pressure and to try and quiet the over all system down just a tad bit more. the return pump isnt really a noise issue by itself, most of the noise comes from the CL. i dont know if this will work, but i will surely be trying it. so if anyone has any ideas as to how to relieve some of the back pressure on the pump please let me know, i really would like to get as much life out of these things as possible.


Regards,
Tre'