sps frag tank

[fishdoc11]

Anthony,
I am setting up a frag tank for mainly sps(some zoas) and thought I would run the setup by you before I finalize it to see if you see any glaring errors.
40 breeder(36" by 18" by 16" high) drilled for 1" DIY durso corner overflow
Mag 5 return through 3/4 pipe and loc line fitting(~ 300gph after head calculation)
Approx 40lbs fiji live rock from established system
None or minimal(1/2") of sand
20 gallon DIY baffled sump
3 MJ 1200's and 1 900 for added circulation
Aqua C EV 180 skimmer run in sump with Sedra 700 or 900 pump run externally.
SLS ROIII 250 watt DE pendant with 20K AB lamp.(might eventually add another pendant)

Thanks for any opinions or input:-)

Chris

[Anthony Calfo]

overall looks very fine... some comments/concerns:

the mag 5 return will be very weak (is this a manifold?). The flow is modest on this pump and that will be made "worse" (diffused even more) by the pipe return size (3/4" is too large here). IMO, you need a larger pump or a smaller return line to get better bang for your buck on the flow distribution. If you go with a bigger return pump (and bigger/more overflow drains) you can reduce or eliminate the need for the extra pumps in the display.

lighting: 250 watts over 40 gall is still a scary amount of light... really too much IMO even with sps and zoanthids. I think you will pale/bleach just as many as you will improve (bright colors). If this was a 20k K bulb, I might concede... but you need/want more daylight for the shallow sps corals... and here, a 175 watt MH with a very good reflector is more than enough. I'm generalizing here (have to) without knowing exactly what species you will be keeping, but a perspective nonetheless for popular species kept.

with kind regards,

Anthony

[fishdoc11]

My main concern with the return pump is heat since it has to be submersable due to space issues. The Mag 5 will turn over the water volume > 6 times an hour. With the added MJ's this will give the tank ~36 times turnover. Most of the corals I propigate(mostly acros but also seriatopra, poccillopora, stylophora, montipora etc...) come from the top 12" of my 90 which is lit by 2 250 watt 10K Ushios. I was thinking 16" deep under a 20K DE would be about right. I guess I should have written this a month ago before I got the tank drilled as I think your idea of more return flow and elimination of the power heads is a great one:-) At any rate thanks much for the feedback. Glad to hear in your opinion I'm not too far off:-)
thanks, Chris

[MiddletonMark]

Originally posted by Anthony Calfo
overall looks very fine... some comments/concerns:

the mag 5 return will be very weak (is this a manifold?). The flow is modest on this pump and that will be made "worse" (diffused even more) by the pipe return size (3/4" is too large here). IMO, you need a larger pump or a smaller return line to get better bang for your buck on the flow distribution. If you go with a bigger return pump (and bigger/more overflow drains) you can reduce or eliminate the need for the extra pumps in the display.

I too would vote for a bigger pump ... but Anthony's advice confuses me as running with smaller pipe seems like it would add plumbing/head pressure to the pump and have it put out less gph than prior.

Perhaps the smaller size would add velocity ... but I didn't think that was what we're looking for - and that velocity would come at the loss overall of gph.

Just my take, but when I compute head pressure, the larger pipe puts out more gph as there's less pressure on the pump [and mags are terrible pressure pumps IME].

I'd consider a Mag7 ... doubt it's that much heat and works as nice flow on my 40 breeder.

Personally, I'd consider one of the Seios for added circulation - depending on what you want to think about that manufacturer. For a small tank, they're quite electrically efficient [esp compared to Maxijets] and produce a nice flow. Then again, might nuke your tank I hear
But I'd figure the lower power consumption should equate to less heat added to the tank as well ... or else consider a surge or such if practical as that's cheap for lots of flow. Just a thought.

Keep us updated on what you do Chris ... I'll be interested. [plumbing my own this spring when I put the sump in the basement ... figure my `flow through' flow of 600 gph from tank->sump should work nicely, though I'm experimenting with surges right now as one PH moves a whole lot of water that way.

Good luck on it

[Anthony Calfo]

true, Mark... if this were a bigger pump or a return/manifold with less tees... then 1/2" might be restricting. But no chance of that here with the flow so modest.

Too many aquarists use 3/4" or 1" lines and don't have the pump to back it up, then get disappointed that their manifold "didn't work" like promised/expected.

The increase in velocity either way is likely welcome/helpful.

We all agree a bigger pump here to be sure.

kind regards to all

Anthony

[fishdoc11]

We'll I went ahead and ordered the Mag 7 instead. With head calculations that will be ~425 gph, so about 10.5 times tank volume through the sump an hour. That will also push the turnover rate to about 39 times an hour. I should have noted before that this entire tank is comming from frags traded to individuals for things like the skimmer, sold to individuals for $ for things like plumbing supplies and with one of my lfs's for things like the return pump, tank, stand etc... so I am somewhat limited in what I can do with that fact and being a student (poor in $ but blessed as far as coral growth:-)). Also I allready have the maxi jets and a couple of other things lying around so I will go ahead and utilize those. Thanks for the help. It's allways good to get advice from guys like yall:-)
thanks, Chris

[Anthony Calfo]

understood my friend... and to clear up a final point your mentioned above (for future tanks/reference), your concern about a larger Mag pump throwing heat is no different than a smaller pump plus those submersible MJ powerhheads... perhaps worse in the latter case and at greater inefficiency than one dedicated pump. Do consider for the future, my friend.

Anthony

[fishdoc11]

Will do:-) This tank plan started as a 29 sumpless run with a remora and lit by VHO's as a place to keep my frags( I had all of that on hand). As these plans tend to go it has evolved to the point it is now. What pump would you recommend?
thanks, Chris

[Anthony Calfo]

Mag drives are fine when heat is not a good issue. They are not especially long lived, but rather p[rice-appropriate values for how affordable they are.

For long-term pumps, I swear by Japanese made Iwakis. Its my first pump of choice most often.

Anthony

[dwillingm]

Can you tell me where i can find plans for the DIY corner overflow?

Is it as simple is siliconing a glass strip into a corner of the tank?

[fishdoc11]

I determined how big the standpipe would be(after drilling the bottom and aquiring the bulkhead) and then cut a piece of black plexiglass to fit(leaving room to be able to service the standpipe) and cut slits in it. I then siliconed it in place. You can use glass. I have seen several made of glass:-)
Chris

[dwillingm]

thanks for the info.

i take it the bottom of the 40g breeder is not tempered, since you could drill it? is that glass 1.4 inch thick?

[fishdoc11]

The bottom of an AGA 40 breeder is not tempered. It looks like 1/4" but I didn't measure it so I could be wrong:-)
Chris

[kwl1763]

This may be a little late and I may be giving my opinion where not wanted or needed (sorry Anthony) but here goes anyway!

I have no problems going with a Mag 5 on the return. I think it's perfect. Turning your volume through the sump 3-5 is plenty and will help you avoid any microbubble issues. The Mag 7 will work fine also BTW. Just run it up to say dual putputs in the corners or in the middle back, whatever. I just don't think generally return pumps should be used for the bulk or circulation in an SPS tank.

For additional movement the manifold would be great on a closed loop with say 6 outlets and a Mag 12 or so hooked up with 3/4" piping. This would give you at least 150 GPH through each hole and up your total turnover to roughly 30x which is more appropriate for most SPS.

Then you wouldn't need any maxijets in the tank. Will help heat, be easier to maintain, take less energy, and will look better

[fishdoc11]

Well I just wanted to say thanks to Mark and Anthony for your help The frag tank has been running for a couple of months now and it's settling in nicely. Here is a pic:

thanks, Chris

[Anthony Calfo]

Outstanding to see... thank you for sharing your image/progress. Looking forward to more of both

kindly,

Anthony

[Ron Clements]

Fishdoc,

Your tank looks awsome! I have a few questions, I am setting up a 40 gallon clam tank and your set up is very simalar to what I am trying to achieve just with a few clams thrown in.

I to have a mag 5 installed with a 3/4" outlet and pipe but purchased a mag 7. Did you go to the mag 7?

I am struglling with a Durso and mag 5 combo producing a lot of bubbles in the sump. They are pouring out of the return into my tank and sticking on the sloped glass of the tank (the front of my tank is at a 40 degeree angle). I am getting ready to install baffles in the sump hoping that that will cure the problem, I have non at this point. You mentioned a "baffled sump" Did the baffles keep the bubbles in the sump on you tank. I was resisting going to the mag 7 for this reason, that I was worried it would make my bubble problem bigger.

What is the black tupe beside the top cap of you durso? Is that the air inlet? I just have the hole in the top of mine.


I purchased a 250 HQI pendant, the tank is about 18" high and with the sloped glass I figured the 250 was right but Anthony seems to think it is a bit much. Did you stick with the 250 and what K bulb are you using?

Looks like a very shallow sand bed what was your reason for the shallow sand bed?

Lastly where was your picture taken on the beach with the shark? I do a bit of surf fishing down on the outer banks of NC in hatteras and it looks like the beach down there.

Thanks,

Ron

[fishdoc11]

Ron,
I did end up going with the Mag 7 and I am happy with the flow. In fact I plan on splitting the Loc line to 2 outlets. The thing I don't like about the Mag 7's and lower models is that they seem to be a bit noisier design than the 9's and higher models. Here is a link to good sump designs/info:
http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html
I ended up going with a 20 high split into two compartments with 3 baffles in the middle for that tank. Also it helps to run the line going to the sump into some sort of container/acrylic box that is higher than the water level with holes drilled in the bottom on the sides. This will help greatly with reducing bubbles.

The Black tube is the power chord for my heater. I also drilled the top of the durso.

I am using a 250 DE with a 20K AB driven by an HQI ballast. It seems to be working well. Not too much at all IMO. If you plan on going with a 10K lower wattage will ceartainly work but without atinics I prefer the 20 K for both my eye and coral coloration.

I painted the bottom of the tank. This tank is also a sort of barebottom experiment

The picture was taken at Mexico Beach FL. I will be back down there in ~3 weeks

good luck, Chris

[Ron Clements]

Chris,

Any new pictures of the Frag tank?

Thanks,
Ron

[fishdoc11]

It looks about the same. Only more coraline and different frags